Jehovah Witnesses and critical bible students, Please listen up.

LOL.................

reply to post by Uncle Gravity


ROFL

o.k so I tried to quote one of the post but I dont know what I did wrong . I have been lurking here a long time and joined just so I could reply to this post .
With that out of the way I would like to say that anyone who bashes another religion cannot themselves be a christian . The witnesses strive to learn about other religions so they can understand them .
It is this type of intolerance that can make a individual look like he is just spouting off at the mouth and has no real argument . There is a reason they do what they do , it is called going out on service as in service to Jehovah , God , Jesus or what ever your religion calls the entity they believe in .
I would like to ask if the op calls himself christian ? and if he does, when the last time he went out in the service of god ?
I myself believe there is something bigger , and I hope that whatever it is it sends someone calling on you to judge how you yourself will treat another person . And to quote a favorite movie of mine just remember , BE EXCELLENT TO EACH OTHER .
party on dudes...

reply to post by Goku72

BE EXCELLENT TO EACH OTHER .
party on dudes...

Second that!

Originally posted by MJZoo
I'm not going to heaven because God didn't make me.

Yeah, me either. But, the religious crowd will never get it, and sadly, if you tell them the truth about yourself, as I have, they will call you crazy, or tell you you are going to Hell. Just today the 4th or 5th person called me to offer me burial insurance. I told the guy I was not going to be buried. 'Oh,' he said, 'Cremated then?' "No," I said, "I will be leaving the planet." He hung up on me at that.

Truth be known, I would not wish to go to the abode of Christians anyway, they are enough trouble here in this plane.

Originally posted by Theophorus
A. Stop knocking at my door claiming to offer me the "truth"
If you are going to knock on my door, be prepared right then and there to offer me TRUTH.Or at least have some knowledge with credentials to debate religion or christian theology. I do not want to come to your kingdom hall and listen to an elder explain what you can not.Why are you sent to my house? why not someone who knows their field of study.

B. You must be a complete idiot to assume that I have not been exposed to "The Good News". I dont think that there is a person in the world who does not know about Jesus least alone the bible.
Why do you think that the New Translation of the Holy Scriptures is the correct translation of the Bible?The book you call the bible is an abomination. Shame on you !

C. Why have you replaced what the Jews held in reverence with the word Jehovah. Listen close,JEHOVAH is not a word.This is NOT Gods name.

D. Guess What? were all going to heaven. Yep, every single one of Gods creatures are going to heaven. God made us and saw that his creation was GOOD.

Here is the truth,

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

How can good produce evil... IT CANT !!!

Jehovah's Witnesses come to you with the intention of making you a proselyte, and they show genuine interest in people. However, if they're going to preach from the Bible (or clearly speaking, their blatantly tweaked Bible, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures), then they must accept when the Bible says that they are wrong. They must also play the game fairly and admit that the Watchtower is a false prophet and that their past false prophecies should not be covered up or justified.

It is important to ask key questions and to not accept invasive or vague answers.

reply to post by Theophorus


In reply to points A and B. The Witnesses hold their own point of views from the bible this may differ from yours (obviously).

In reply to point C. Jehovah is the Tetragrammaton of the word Yahweh (YHWH), the Latin form of the word being Jehovah from the original Hebrew Bible there-for they are not replacing anything simply using a differing translation (there are many places that state this such these).
en.wikipedia.org... (not entirely reliable but still usable)
www.caic.org.au...

In reply to point D. Theophorus, this may be my opinion however, how does your quote from the Genesis at the end of your post prove that all people, good or immoral will go the heaven, the quote states that God himself saw that his work was good, however then Lucifer (Satan) developed his own selfish feelings, and then manipulated Adam and Eve.

and the good creating evil point... in this case Jehovah, or Yahweh if you like, created human kind as neutral with free will as it were, and then Satan turned that against us.

also, this is mainly my personal opinion, take it how you will, however most of this came from simple Google searches on websites like the ones above so may I suggest researching the terms, Tetragrammaton, and Yahweh.

reply to post by Dominikas


I've been a JW for over 20 years. I was raised to beleive in Evolution by Atheist parents, but I could never reconcile the beauty in nature with the Atheistic rationale. Order does not normally come from chaos.......

.. I studied the Bible and read all the books I could to disprove their message, but try as I might I could not escape the fact that their teachings from the Bible were logical and in keeping with the simple Christian message taught by Jesus and the 1st Century Christians..... I have seen the good side of JWs, I have also seen the very worst side and for a while I drifted away and thought about leaving. However I honestly beleive I have found the truth and most JWs try and live up to their responsibilities in a loving Christian manner.

Jesus didn't say that you would recognise the true faith by it's being perfect far from it...we are all imperfect....the identifying mark he said that a person would recognise was the Love that followers of the true faith would have for one another and for their neighbours in general.

As for Jehovah YHWH...many many Bibles and Hymns if you look back to centuries past acknowledged the divine name of God as being Jehovah. I remember the vicar at my wedding shocking me with the words "Guide me oh thou great Jehovah" when he suggested that for one of the hymns at the service...... and all around the world most languages have a derivative of that name. Every time someone sings Hallelujah... they sing hail Jah or the shortened version of Jehovah.

The word Jehovah means "He causes to become"...... the Creator - who asks us to cast our eyes and see the Star filled Universe in all it's breathtaking beauty ........ (Isaiah 40:26) . . .Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing.

Surely a very simple way in Scripture of expressing a fundemental universal law.... E = mc2

As for Jehovah's Witnesses knocking at your door....if you really hate them coming to your door then why not tell them this and ask that you not be called on anymore if annoys you so much. I assure you, they will respect your wishes....

Jesus commanded Christians to go forth and make disciples.....people seem to forget that the 1st Century Christians did just the same as modern day Jehovah's Witnesses do .....(Acts 5:42) . . ."And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus"

People need to be made aware that the creator will not continue to allow mankind to ruin this beautiful planet forever.

(2 Chronicles 36:15-16) 15 And Jehovah the God of their forefathers kept sending against them by means of his messengers, sending again and again, because he felt compassion for his people and for his dwelling. 16 But they were continually making jest at the messengers of the [true] God and despising his words and mocking at his prophets, until the rage of Jehovah came up against his people, until there was no healing.

Incidentally for those who mock the belief in a Creator....I asked an Atheist only last week who constantly berates my beliefs one simple question and I'm still waiting for the answer,,,,

" If mankind is the pinnicle of the evolutionary chain on Planet Earth so far, why is it that human females suffer so much agony and pain in child birth? Apes don't suffer excrutiating pain when giving birth normally do they?. It's been mentioned to me that our brains are bigger then other mammals, which makes the foetal path down the birth canal more difficult for human females. So how come human females didn't evolve a larger birth canal to compensate? Nor are we the creatures who have the biggest brains on the planet neither. In areas of the earth where littlemedical intervention in birth takes place as there's little medical care eg Nigeria many women still suffer death in child birth. I'm sure there's cases of apes etc dying as a consequence of giving birth but their process seems far easier and less fraught with danger. Flip I thought I was going to die giving birth to my first child. Is that really evolutionary progress over billions of years from a simple cell dividing into two to reproduce itself?

And No i've never read that question in any Watchtower publication...it is a genuine query I have.

reply to post by JB1234



Believe me when I say that I agree with every word you say, I was raised a JW and still am, and as a teenager I thought that I should not hold faith just by the words of others (when I say others I mean other JW's) so I set out on my own path of research, and study of not only science but other religions. (There is a good book published by the JW's called Man Kind Search for God) and as you found I too probably discovered, in saying that I obviously don't hate them knocking on my door. Along with this I was trying to give a condensed version of what you said so I commend you on your post.

At this point in time we are all Witnesses, it is whether or not we see is the question. Why not fly the flag of Cuzco, Peru? They will definitely leave you alone!

reply to post by Greensage


And why would this cause the Witnesses to leave?

Originally posted by Dominikas
reply to post by Greensage

 

And why would this cause the Witnesses to leave?

It's a secret

I certainly did not mean to "kink-up" the thread. Sorry the Cuzco flag was a joke! Seriously, are there folks that do not recognize the use of the Rainbow Flag in today's Society?

It is true though, they won't bother you if you put up that flag, but your neighbors will never look at you the same again! (see, I am being humorous)

Originally posted by Greensage
I certainly did not mean to "kink-up" the thread. Sorry the Cuzco flag was a joke! Seriously, are there folks that do not recognize the use of the Rainbow Flag in today's Society?

It is true though, they won't bother you if you put up that flag, but your neighbors will never look at you the same again!

(see, I am being humorous)

never mind I get it now, but seriously..... that would not be worth it.

Dear Prisioners of the Watchtower, apologeticists, and fellow-travelers,

Please respond to the following quote, if possible.

"The Watchtower maintains that Christ and His Father are 'not at all equal', which has been their boldest insult to Christianity since Russell and Rutherford concocted and promoted the whole nightmare. This type of unbelief where Christ's true deity is concerned has gladdened the hearts of non-intellectuals the country over who find it easier to mock the Trinity than to trust God's Word and His Son."

-Walter Martin, Kingdom of the Cults, pg.118

Thank you in advance for your reply.

Yours in Christ,

Partygirl

Originally posted by Partygirl
Dear Prisioners of the Watchtower, apologeticists, and fellow-travelers,

Please respond to the following quote, if possible.

"The Watchtower maintains that Christ and His Father are 'not at all equal', which has been their boldest insult to Christianity since Russell and Rutherford concocted and promoted the whole nightmare. This type of unbelief where Christ's true deity is concerned has gladdened the hearts of non-intellectuals the country over who find it easier to mock the Trinity than to trust God's Word and His Son."

-Walter Martin, Kingdom of the Cults, pg.118

Thank you in advance for your reply.

Yours in Christ,

Partygirl

edit on 11-6-2011 by Partygirl because: (no reason given)

I will reply by stating who is this guy to say that, I mean really how is it insulting to 'Christianity' Than shall we say... Satanic cults can and do exist, and also there it is the 'TRINITY' if this guy knows what he's talking about and is not a MAINSTREAM CHRISTIAN SUPREMACIST (which by the looks of his website he is).

www.waltermartin.com...

THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS. As for your statement about prisoners of the watchtower, I would like to know where you got this ridiculous idea from, how are people mentally or physically prisoners if THEY CHOOSE to pick up the book. Also this guy contradicts himself which blows his credibility right out the metaphorical window "Christ's true deity", HAS the meaning of Deity changed lately or does that not mean that Christ himself worships this being his 'FATHER', not himself.

So there you go I challenge you to reply to that... and THANK you in advance for your reply.

reply to post by Partygirl


To respond to this quote... I think the best response would be to quote from the scriptures

(Philippians 2:5-8) . . .Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. 8 More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake.

In other words Jesus would not even in a fit of seizure consider that he was equal to God.

In fact when Jesus performed miracles some of the Jews accused him of blasphemy by claiming he was of equal stature...

(John 5:18) . . .On this account, indeed, the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God.

Jesus replied the following by showing that although he could perform miracles these powers were entrusted to him by his father - who sent him...

(John 5:19-24) . . .Therefore, in answer, Jesus went on to say to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, in order that YOU may marvel. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive, so the Son also makes those alive whom he wants to. 22 For the Father judges no one at all, but he has committed all the judging to the Son, 23 in order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. 2. . .

How could the same person, send someone else? It makes NO sense.

Also Jesus prayed to his heavenly father before his trial....(Matthew 26:39) . . .And going a little way forward, he fell upon his face, praying and saying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.”

What would be the point of prayer if Jesus was God and part of a Trinity? Surely that would mean he would be praying to himself all night....

Again it makes NO sense, the scriptures do not teach that Jesus was equal to God. The Jewish first century Christians who had been converted worshipped EXACTLY the same God as they had always worshipped even as Jews.... YHWH or in ancient Hebrew "the ONE who causes to become"...... not two or three..

However after Jesus' death and his ransom sacrifice had been accepted he became a mediator between mankind and God after Adam turned against God and willed that mankind should be made independent of his creator and not be subfect to him. Paul explained this quite eloquently.....

(1 Timothy 2:5-7) . . .For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. 7 For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth.

So who tells the truth about the status of Jesus and his father Jehovah?... the Scriptures..... or a doctrine that predates Christianity ....

“From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity,” observed historian Will Durant. In the Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics, James Hastings wrote: “In Indian religion, e.g., we meet with the trinitarian group of Brahmā, Siva, and Viṣṇu; and in Egyptian religion with the trinitarian group of Osiris, Isis, and Horus.”