End of the United Kingdom?

So, as most of you will not be aware. Today we are seeing the results of a round of voting in the UK, including voting on Scottish Parliament members.

Surprisingly or not, the SNP (Scottish National Party) have gained an overall majority of the seats in the Scottish house of Parliament. Within hours of this, the media in the UK has stated, even has been responded to seriously by the Prime Minister David Cameron, the idea of Scottish independence from the United Kingdom. This is being seriously mooted by the MSM.

They is already talk of a "referendum" on the matter, Word is, is that the SNP are now saying that this ideal and result is a mandate from the people of Scotland. Although their election campaign did not touch on this issue, whereas the Scottish Labour Party were using it as a scare tactic in theirs. I guess it did not work, at least for the SLP.

Should such a referendum occur, and the Scottish people decided to vote yes for an independent Scotland. Does this mean that we can then have and independent England?

What would it mean for our armed forces?
What would it mean for "British" Oil and Gas fields that were developed by British Companies, by the UK, but would then lay in "Scottish" waters?
Could Scotland survive economically with the umbilical cord to Westminster cut, and without the Billions of pounds of subsidies given by the British government each year!?
What about their free university places?

If this happens. I say good, reinvest it back into England and Wales, and leave them to it

What would happen to their Nationality, or passports? Surely they would not be allowed to keep British Citizenship? What about membership to the European Union? Surely they would have to demonstrate they can meet the requirements? Just as other applicant members must.

Protection under NATO? Membership of the IMF and World bank? What about the UN??? all of which they have enjoyed under the umbrella of the United Kingdom, which they would then not be a part of.

Would they still wish to exists as a Crown protectorate, as the Isle of Man, or the Channel Islands??

Should the UK Government resist this, in the face of resurgent Scottish Nationalists. If such resistance escalated could we see Scottish Regiments, who have served with honour, distinction and loyalty to the Crown rebel against their oath to the Crown? Worst case, scaremongering scenario, civil war??

Indeed the SNP and people of Scotland have much to lose, and much to consider should they embark on the path to separate themselves from the UK.

In turn, so do the English. If this happened at least we would no longer have Scottish MP's voting on issues that affect England in the Houses of Parliament, while English MPs are prohibited from voting on Scottish issues in Hollyrood.

This is more than a bad Mel Gibson film!

We could have a new flag with the Dragon of Wales with more prominence

reply to post by JakiusFogg


Personally I think this would be good.. and I wish the Scots all the best in the pursuit of whatever it is they want... maybe we can be good neighbours instead of it feeling like we are rivals for the same empty pot...


As for flags... I do like Henry Tudors Dragon banner...

Maybe even a bit of Black and White for the Cornish!

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Indeed everyone has the right to their own destiny. And I am sure that for those like me, that consider themselves English first, there are those that consider themselves Scottish first also.

However our two countries have been joined together for hundreds of years, and now share common ancestry,

The English gave up their right of self determination in the name of the British Nation, to the point we are "oppressed" more than the other members of the union.

But that still doesn't men I want to see the breakup of my country. What's next? An independent Wales. Cornwall.

The issue is not being independent from England. But saying, you know what guys, I no longer want to be part of your union!.

if that the case, we might as well forget the whole thing. Disolve the commonwealth, hold referendum in Australia Canada, New Zealand on the Monarchy And she can go back to being just Queen of England. and that's it.

I just can't see how it could be good for us as one nation!

reply to post by JakiusFogg


Just because the SNP has a majority of seats at Holyrood does not mean that Scottish people will vote to disolve the union and seek an independant scotland. There is a huge differance between the SNP giving the Scottish poeple this vote and them voting for independance.

If this vote was granted and then Scottish people voted in favour of independance, that would be the start of the process. There would have to be an act of parliament disolving the union, and as part of this act, there would of course be discussions of all the points you raised.

What would it mean for our armed forces?

Very little as I guess that many in scotland would still want to serve and Scotland is hardly going to have a army of its own. It would contine to rely on military protection from England. The question of our nuclear submarine base would have to be discussions as heard that the SNP would want to make Scotland nuclear free. Which then makes you wonder how Scotland would heat and light the country without nuclear power stations.

What would it mean for "British" Oil and Gas fields that were developed by British Companies, by the UK, but would then lay in "Scottish" waters?

If no deal could be reached than Scotland should reply all the monies invested in the development of this oil back to the British companies. How would Scotland protect or enforce its rights to this oil?

Could Scotland survive economically with the umbilical cord to Westminster cut, and without the Billions of pounds of subsidies given by the British government each year!?

You would like to think that the SNP have an economic plan for Scotland should its people vote for independance, and that plan would have to be based on no support from south of the border.

What about their free university places?

That's good question and I wonder if that would be part of their economic planning?

What would happen to their Nationality, or passports? Surely they would not be allowed to keep British Citizenship? What about membership to the European Union? Surely they would have to demonstrate they can meet the requirements? Just as other applicant members must.

They should be Scottish and not entitled to a British passport. I can not see Scotland not wanting to continue to enjoy membership of the EU. And I think you ask a great question about the EU membership requirements. But all at some of the countries that have been granted membership of the EU.

Would they still wish to exists as a Crown protectorate, as the Isle of Man, or the Channel Islands??

No. If they want independance, them let stand on their own feet with no support from south of the border. This is all or nothing.

Should the UK Government resist this, in the face of resurgent Scottish Nationalists. If such resistance escalated could we see Scottish Regiments, who have served with honour, distinction and loyalty to the Crown rebel against their oath to the Crown? Worst case, scaremongering scenario, civil war??

Under the Union, the Government would have to resist this, and the scottish Regiments have sworn an oath to the monarchy and not then country. Scotland would not survive a civil war.

In turn, so do the English. If this happened at least we would no longer have Scottish MP's voting on issues that affect England in the Houses of Parliament, while English MPs are prohibited from voting on Scottish issues in Hollyrood.

This should be the case today but our spineless leaders are not prepared to tackle this.

Agreed on all points.

I guess I just cannot believe I just saw the PM responding to this question seriously within hours of the results coming in.

Something tells me that Salmon is going to let this go to his head. Then his true colours, more so than now, will show through.

Good, now let all the Scottish people apply for work permits, and make them pay to use the NHS and so on. Remove their voting rights unless they apply for a residents permit, all those that don't, deport them.

Treat them like any other EU member state, let them run their own health care, their own taxes and so on. I expect Scotland will end up going bankrupt like Eire and run to the IMF.

reply to post by moogins


Extreme, but the darker side of me has to chuckle at that!

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by moogins

 

Extreme, but the darker side of me has to chuckle at that!

Why? that is the way it works. I have worked all around europe, I have to jump through those hoops but the irony is I have more rights automatically in EU member states than I do in my own country, that is how fcuked up my own country is, a banana republic in the EU run by terrorists (yes true).


If they want to be their own country ehm member state in the EU, let them. They have to do gymnastics, worse if they are outside the EU. Nationlistic and all that, costs. So this victory is a loss actually if you think about it.

Let them have their freedom !!!

But I have a funny feeling that if the referendum took place, I think they'd vote NO to independance.

reply to post by moogins


Ahh but if your European, you don't need a work permit.

As currently I am in Ireland, I can stay here as long as I want, just as it was in Holland, Slovakia, Czech Rep, Hungary, France Germany, etc etc etc.

But I am with you on the lack of rights in England, especially if your English!

But yes I agree if they want ID and EU membership, they would have to apply without any grandfathering off the back of the UK, (that they rejected) should this come to pass!

reply to post by EnigmaAgent


I suspect your right. What would happen if the English held a referendum to depart the UK. Would that even be possible?????

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by moogins

 

Ahh but if your European, you don't need a work permit.

As currently I am in Ireland, I can stay here as long as I want, just as it was in Holland, Slovakia, Czech Rep, Hungary, France Germany, etc etc etc.

But I am with you on the lack of rights in England, especially if your English!

But yes I agree if they want ID and EU membership, they would have to apply without any grandfathering off the back of the UK, (that they rejected) should this come to pass!

edit on 6/5/2011 by JakiusFogg because: (no reason given)

You need a RESIDENCE permit, 5 years then its automatic permenant ( not permenant but the requirement of having a job is no longer valid after 5 years). Its just paperwork really and rubber stamping but still is required.

Sure perhaps in time even that paperwork is no longer necessary and rightly so but its still required

Going against the grain of the NWO costs money and they dont have that.

That is the fact of the world we have today, and in future. Play their game you do fine, go against them you go bankrupt.

SNP winning is just a PR for appeasment, all parties usually play the same tune, just in different ways.

Plan is still in effect.




Independant or depenadnt on the Crown or not doesnt make a single difference, you are all in the same barrel, the EU. North South Ireland, who cares, its all just PR. Your all in the same soup.

EU embassies opened a year ago, (2004 Treaty) and EU has a seat now on the UN.

Do the math.


Your all in their ehm, region. Thats all that matters.

That's the first time I heard that. and I too have worked all over Europe.

The EU is the EU, and if you are European you have the right to live anywhere in it. without visa. you only need residence permit if you originate from outside the EU.

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
That's the first time I heard that. and I too have worked all over Europe.

The EU is the EU, and if you are European you have the right to live anywhere in it. without visa. you only need residence permit if you originate from outside the EU.

I never said visa did I. Residence permit is so they can tax you thats all they care about.

basic rule is 5 years (with an supportable income / job) and after that its pretty much automatically a so called "permenant" residence permit ( no longer the requirement to have the ability to "support yourself" either bank balance calculated on their living costs or a job with income).


You can enter their state but have to leave within 3 months without a permit, so just cross a border and come back But as with all taxing the more you stay in their state you are considered that to be your primary domcile and thus pay their taxes. Usually a set time per tax year (accumulated).

If you really want into the nitty gritty.

Ahhh now i got you.

thats why I am a non resident contractor. Dont "work" in any state. but yes if you have employment there then yes you have to register.

as for scotland. pre approved visas required!!

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
Ahhh now i got you.

thats why I am a non resident contractor. Dont "work" in any state. but yes if you have employment there then yes you have to register.

as for scotland. pre approved visas required!!

You want to be careful how long you accumulate in a tax year in their state then or you are liable for taxing.

And many people are unaware, they CAN and have done to peopel, DEPORT THEM, from a member state and BAR them from reenttry if they commit crimes. This has happened in member countries I lived and worked in, was in the news too.

We call it long term business. Not contracting to any company in the member states. would normally pay tax in the UK, but moved to Mexico. where I have temorary visitor status, an bank account, and no interest taken by the tax authority as long as I keep bringing in the money!!

We had a similar problem with immigration in Panama.

In the end they had to concede we were doing nothing wrong!