In search of HHO power to anything always. Out of the claws, into.... something new.

reply to post by nh_ee

That is fundamentally why it's better.

And not to mention, my electricity bill keeps going up faster than my wages.....when will it ever end ??
Not until we begin to think outside of the box and begin producing our own energy.

That is not a reason why it is fundamentally better. It shows that you do not understand the fundamentals of the processes you are talking about. That's about all.

And you are not "producing" your own energy. Chemical energy is stored energy that comes from somewhere and has limits.

reply to post by boncho



I couldn't care less about your opinion of myself.

You know what they say about opinions....they're like A$$HOLES.....everybody has one and they all STINK !

Why don't you ask Professor Dan Nocera and debate with him about his process and why he doesn't understand what he's doing.

As well as to why his company Sun Catalytix are all wrong in their fundamental understanding of the formation of Hydrogen from artificial Photosynthesis.

And also as to why he's a tenured Professor at MIT.

As I had said previously, if you haven't anything to contribute to the topic other than wasting other peoples time with these derailing arguments, then go away.

Have a nice day Boncho.

Consider yourself Ignored.

reply to post by nh_ee

As I had said previously, if you haven't anything to contribute to the topic other than wasting other peoples time with these derailing arguments, then go away.

If asking why using 111lbs of caustic soda to produce the same energy found in a few gallons of gas is considered *derailing* then I don't know what else to say...

-I must be derailing. Perhaps I'm ignorant and you can enlighten me without referencing people by name and not showing anything in detail.

Consider yourself Ignored.

Dammit all to hell...

Originally posted by nh_ee
reply to post by boncho

 

Why don't you ask Professor Dan Nocera and debate with him about his process and why he doesn't understand what he's doing.

As well as to why his company Sun Catalytix are all wrong in their fundamental understanding of the formation of Hydrogen from artificial Photosynthesis.

As I had said previously, if you haven't anything to contribute to the topic other than wasting other peoples time with these derailing arguments, then go away.

I'm not sure why you're so upset with Boncho, he didn't say anything was wrong with Professor Dan Nocera's research. It's a known fact that water can be separated into hydrogen and oxygen which can then be used as fuel, and there are many different ways of doing that.

You mentioned one way, mixing lye and sand into the water. Boncho didn't say it wouldn't work, he just said you'd need a lot of it to replace a couple of gallons of gas, what's wrong with that? It seems like he contributed to the discussion positively to me and I don't see you refuting any facts he cited. Professor Dan Nocera is looking at other ways to split water. We have no reason to doubt that he will find many ways to do it. The big question, which is what Boncho was driving at is, how practical or economical are the alternatives?

Maybe Nocera will find something new that's practical and more economical, and if he does I see no reason why it won't be adopted quickly other than perhaps infrastructure issues and things like that. If you want to discuss specifics of the technology, this is a good place to do it. But just accusing someone of derailing the thread who directly responded to your proposal of mixing sand water and lye isn't getting us any closer to a solution. If you have specific problems with the analysis Boncho did, address those specific issues. I looked at his joules per liter figures and it seems like a valid way to make a comparison to me. He never said it wouldn't work, just that you'd need a lot of it. Now I must admit, I don't even know how much lye costs so I can't comment on the economics of that ingredient. And there's an even cheaper way to split water, using photovoltaic cells, all you need is sunlight, no lye. That will work too:

MIT

aniel Nocera:Catalytic Electrolysis

Inspired by the photosynthesis performed by plants, researchers at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) have combined a liquid catalyst with photovoltaic cells to achieve a super efficient (nearly 100%) electrolysis. ...

"Solar power has always been a limited, far-off solution. Now we can seriously think about solar power as unlimited and soon." -- Daniel Nocera; Science; July 31, 2008

I like the solar power idea better than messing around with lye.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

I like the solar power idea better than messing around with lye.

So do I, I think it's a great idea. Now that I'm done explaining why I think it's idiotic to use large tonnage of caustic soda for energy, I have no problem lending my support to the good folks at MIT.

Home H2O Hydrolysis Hydrogen Fuel Generation Station

Honda has flipped the switch activating its next-generation solar hydrogen station prototype at its Torrance, California, R&D center. Ultimately, it’s seen as a home source capable of supplying an overnight refill for one’s fuel-cell electric vehicle. Designed to fit in an FCEV owner’s garage, the unit exploits Smart Grid technology to provide an 8-hour overnight charge of 0.5 kg of hydrogen, figured as sufficient for a typical 10,000-mile/year daily commute. Given that solar energy arrives in daylight and charging is overnight, the Smart Grid interaction is not only beneficial but essential. The hydrogen is generated through electrolysis of water, the necessary electricity taking advantage of overnight off-peak rates obtained with Smart Grid “Time of Use” metering. During the day, the 48-panel 6-kW solar array captures energy and sells electricity back to the utility, again exploiting the Smart Grid concept. This approach is seen as more efficient than diverting the daylight-sourced energy directly for overnight refills, whether though a battery storing the electricity or gaseous storage of electrolyzer-produced hydrogen. Honda’s previous solar hydrogen station system had both an electrolyzer and separate compressor; this latter, an expensive component reducing system efficiency. This latest iteration uses a new high-differential-pressure electrolyzer, said to be a world’s first intended for home use. The idea of an overnight home unit is seen as complementing a public network of fast-fill (i.e., 5-minute) hydrogen stations, something still very much in embryonic development and only in selected “cluster” regions around the country. Fortunately, we at Road & Track are in such a cluster neighborhood. We’re less than 7 miles from existing hydrogen, 24/7, at the University of California Irvine’s National Fuel Cell Research Center—and even closer to a proposed Shell station dispensing the stuff.

The TRUTH Shall Set You FREE.


www.roadandtrack.com...

Originally posted by nh_ee

Home H2O Hydrolysis Hydrogen Fuel Generation Station

www.roadandtrack.com...

That's very close to what I was advocating in This Thread.

Glad to see they are trying it out.

Originally posted by nh_ee
The TRUTH Shall Set You FREE.

That looks good, but if they had MIT's 90%+ efficient electrolysis process it would be probably 3 times better, since other electrolysis processes are maybe 30% at best, do they state the efficiency for that process?

Even so it may be cheaper than gas that's 1-2 dollars a liter. Cheaper perhaps, but not free, though it is true.

That article also alludes to the infrastructure issues I mentioned earlier. They aren't any barrier to stopping the technology, but first the tech has to prove itself in local markets and then people will feel more confident in investing in the infrastructure. And I wouldn't really want to buy that one if MIT's spinoff company is going to make one three times better, I'd rather get the better one.

www.youtube.com...



This prototype time-piece from UK-based designers James Auger and Jimmy Loizeau traps insects on flypaper stretched across its roller system before depositing them into a vat of bacteria. The ensuing chemical reaction, or "digestion," is transformed into power that keeps the rollers rollin' and the LCD

I didn't see this one posted.
If you watch all of them in order you will have a firm grip on using hydrogen.