Zionist Agenda Now In Full Control of America

Thanks Amuk,

But well, we have to try don't we? I'm done, now there's nothing I can say I know, and when I saw the thread I should have just walked away, but well, I'm a sucker for a good fight but yeah, I can tell I'm just wasting my breath.

Good luck Ashlar, I hope you find the truth you seek.

Spiderj

I'm gonna go watch the simpsons now, this too may be part of the conspiracy, I'm not sure.

well then since you know hebrew, why dont you translate the pedophilia verses i quoted you earlier. is it perhaps because you already know it is the correct translation?

I'm gonna go watch the simpsons now, this too may be part of the conspiracy, I'm not sure.

It, as all FOX shows, serves to dumb you down. If you watch it, it's got you. Don't bother turning to ABC or CBS (or any channel owned by them) though, it's the same.

well then since you know hebrew, why dont you translate the pedophilia verses i quoted you earlier. is it perhaps because you already know it is the correct translation?

That's not what I said. I said I studied the torah and I was bar mitzvahed and had to be able to interpret the torah but, that was a long time ago and I certainly wouldn't feel confident translating anything.

I also used to speak fluent japanese but could barely get by in that language at the moment.

Whether or not I agree with the translation is neither here nor there, at least I have some other frame of reference to base my opinion.

I unlike you have not claimed to be a scholar of anything, and unlike you I have at least at some point in my life read the original text and had to be able to interpret it, all young jewish children attend hebrew school from the age of six on (2x a week and saturday mornings oy!).

I stopped going when I was fourteen when I became curious about other paths of spirituality leading me from new age crystalism, to magick, budhism, christianity and the more bizarre religions that abound throughout the world...my parents were pretty cool that way.

The point is you have neither studied nor bothered to learn the original language of the text you claim holds the truth of your beliefs.

Aside from the fact that these translations about pedophilia being shocking they don't come close to proving your supposed conspiracy or proving that the protocols of the elders of Zion are real or not, this does not seem to matter to you as you only seem to see what you want to see.

You have at some point been told these things, read the appropriate texts to back up your beliefs and refuse to look beyond the horizon.

No one is out to get you, jews do not endorse child molestation, one mans tranlation is another mans mis-translation.

This is all I'm trying to say to you, you can't take someone's word for it.

Besides, let's say I could confidently interpret the torah and it contradicted what you posted, honestly wouldn't you just think I was lying.

Again, I'm not going to go round and round with you on this, it's unfortunate but and there's no other way to say this, you have been grossly misinformed about jews.

Take care and try to do the leg work, take a class learn hebrew and do it yourself. If you wont even take the time and care to learn for yourself I don't see how you can call yourself a scholar or expert.

I drive a car, doesn't mean I can build one, but if I wanted to take the time and put in the energy I could learn.

Same goes with conspiracies and religion.

Again good luck and I hope in the end you find what you are looking for.

Spiderj

Originally posted by Ashlar

how can any leader destroy the dome of the rock to rebuild the temple without causing a world war?

Why do you think there is a need to destroy the dome of the rock?

Bible does not show this. There is an absence of halakhic knowledge about the precise location of the Temple site.

Originally posted by Ashlar

The entire religion/idea of judaism is based on jewish supremacy.

after all, heaven is for the chosen, and hell is for the gentiles, or as they are called by jews, the "goyim" (cattle).

Judaism has never diminished the essential humanity.

Based on verses in the biblical verses in (Genesis 1:26-28), the principle that all men and women are created in the image of G'd is codified in the Mishnah (Avoth 3:14) and Talmud (Avoth 9b):

[Rabbi Akiva] used to say, �Beloved is man, for he was created in G'd�s image; and the fact that G'd made it known that man was created in His image is indicative of an even greater love.

As the verse states (Genesis 9:6), �In the image of G'd, man was created.��


Anti-Semites claim, for example, that the Hebrew term goy (pl. goyim), which refers to non-Jews, means �cow� or �animal.�

In fact, however, the term goy means �a member of a nation� (see e.g. Genesis 35:11, Isaiah 2:4) and has no derogatory connotation.

Abraham�s original name, for example, was Avram, representing his status as "Av Aram," or the father of Aram, his native country. His name was changed to Avraham to represent his newly gained status as "Av Hamon goyim," or father of a multitude of nations


Rebekka


[edit on 2-8-2004 by Riwka]

Anti-Semites claim, for example, that the Hebrew term goy (pl. goyim), which refers to non-Jews, means �cow� or �animal.�

In fact, however, the term goy means �a member of a nation� (see e.g. Genesis 35:11, Isaiah 2:4) and has no derogatory connotation.

Based on what, then, is the claim made that goyim mean cattle? Your saying this was just made up to demonize semetic peoples?

Is there any historical evidence to show that word goyim was used in different ways?


dictionary.com defines it as:
"Used as a disparaging term for one who is not a Jew."

Is dictionary.com anti-semetic?


This from wikipedia:
Goy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Hebrew: nation, people. The first use of Goy (plural, Goyim) in the Hebrew Bible is in Genesis 10:1, in reference to non-Israelite nations. Its first use in reference to Israelites is in Genesis 12:2, where Abraham is promised that his descendants will form a goy gadol or great nation. The word (in its various forms) is used over 550 times in the Hebrew Bible; in the earlier books it more often refers to the Israelites, but in the later books it more often refers to non-Israelite nations. As a result, in Hebrew and Yiddish goy has come to refer to a member of the Gentile (i.e. non-Jewish) nations. While its use in Hebrew and Yiddish is neutral, its use in English is usually considered derogatory, and many Hebrew and Yiddish speakers have come to see it that way in those tongues as well. As a result, it has somewhat fallen out of favour, and in recent decades written works in Hebrew and Yiddish have begun using circumlocutions which generally translate as "non-Jew" instead.

[edit on 2-8-2004 by MindWarrior]

Originally posted by Ashlar

Sanhedrin 55b - R. Joseph said: Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased husband's brother cohabits with her, she becomes his. " ("Coition" is "sexual intercourse")

One of the more horrifying charges leveled at Judaism is that it condones the sexual molestation of young girls.

This charge was made in 1892 by the Russian Catholic cleric Reverend I.B. Pranaitis in his Latin book, Christianus in Talmude Iudaeorum.

Despite Pranaitis� humiliation at the Beilis blood libel trial in 1913, where as an �expert� witness for the prosecution he demonstrated during cross-examination that he could not answer even simple questions about the Talmud, his book was translated into English in 1939, and the charge has been making the rounds in anti-Semitic circles ever since.



Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Yevamot, pg. 33b says:

One who seduces an underage girl is considered as if he had raped her [i.e., the laws applicable to rapists would apply to the molester].


An honest reading of the passage from Ketubot shows that it is part of a technical discussion regarding the evaluation of a woman�s ketubah (virginity is considered a positive value that would enable the woman to claim a higher ketubah). The quoted passage indicates that if a girl had been molested before the age of three, she is still considered a virgin and is entitled to the higher ketubah.

In no way does the passage or the discussion in Ketubot imply that it is permissible for Jewish men to molest young girls.


Rebekka








[edit on 2-8-2004 by Riwka]

Hi MindWarrior and others:

The term "Anti Semitic" technically means "antil-Safardi Jewish and anti-Arab", since only the tiny world Sefardi Jewish Population BUT ALL ARABS are the only ones who are racially descended from Abraham (and thus through Shem, hence, Shemitic).

Thus the term "anti Semitism" TECHNICALLY cannot refer to 90% of the world's "Jews" as a "race" since "racially" 90% of the world's "Jews" are Ashkenazim (i.e. descendants of Japeth, according to legend) who were racially gentile blooded Ashkenazi converts to Judaeim from Khazaria (Kiev, in the Ukraine) in the 9th century AD, and who headed west into Lithuania, Poland, Latvia, Germany, Austria-Hungary etc. after their empire was destroyed by Musovites in the 11th century AD.

However, "Zionist" has a broader application for anyone who considers "Jews" the "chosen people" whose destiny involves the re-capturing of Jerusalem as the capital of a world empire, and would naturally include most Christians (e.g Jerry Fallwell and his ilk)...

But enough of technical definitions: let's get back to the Racism inherent in Zionism, which is the driving force behind "der Judenstadt" of Herzl in 1897, a "state reserved for Jews only"---sounds racist to me at least.

And despite all the grandstanding and verbal protesting from "Zionists" on this thread, much of the language placed into the core texts of Judaism (e.g. the Torah and the Talmud) and the heinous racist speeches placed into the mouths of Moses, the prophets and Yahweh himself (the clan-god of post Exilic Israel) are full of what we today in the 21st century would call "racist and sexist xenophobia" i.e. an US v. THEM mentality---but it could be argued that one should not judge the wording of an ancient text by 21st century standards of "tolerance" which are on the whole quite new to humanity, at least in the "West"...

The Torah and the Talmud, when read literally, are actually as racist in tone as Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf, and other neo-Nazi propaganda still floating around today.

Or do you imagine there is any difference between CHOSEN PEOPLE and MASTER RACE?

If you think there is, you had better read the Old Testament again very very carefully. Then read Mein Kampf very carefully. You'll find that the two books use the SAME language...!

It all boils down to the fact that the god of the post Exilic Jews is a clan-god, not a universal deity, whose only interest is in a small patch of land in Palestine, according to the writings that the Rabbis included in their Bible (in AD 90, at Javneh, after the 2nd Temple was ground to powder by Rome).

Yet modern people read the "bible" today as if there were some kind of Universal Message in it. But try not to forget that "Christians" and "Rabinnin Jews" at the end of the day, when all is said and done, actually are worshipping a Middle Eastern triabl deity or clan god who cares about things like the length of temple curtains, which toe of the high priest to smear sacrificial bull-blood, or whose brainy idea of detecting adultery was to have the suspected female drink poisoned water to determine her guilt...

To an outsider without prejudice, it would seem that the position of this foreign deity in the West is nothing short of bizzare, since we in the "West" have adopted secular laws which ultimately derived from Greece and Rome via Great Britain...).

I would like to say that modern day orthodox Jews have finally learned the horrors of racism the hard way, and would gladly therefore excise the passages in the Torah and Talmud which are undeniably racist in tone:

But unfortunately, Rabbis (especially the ultra orthodox) still cling to the old racist language in their prayers, and still recite these heinous passages of blatant racism ("anti-Goyism") from the supposedly ancient Torah in their synagogue services to this day bringing the dead past back to life (read: Deut. chapter 13 and Deut. Chapter 20 "genocide them all, women, men, children, and the animals and burn their bones upon the altar as a perpetual holocaust unto Me, saith YHWH the clan-god (elohim) of Israel..."

In other words, they have not progressed into the 21st century with all the universal ideas of tolerance of difference, despite the hundreds of millions spent on the socalled "Houses of Tolerance/Holocaust Museums" in major western cities.

Someone should build a Holocaust Museum to the Girgi#es and the Jebusites and the Perizzites and the Hivvites whom Israel exterminated (read the racist genocidal vomit placed into the mouth of YHWH in the filfthy book of Joshua, for example, which was written by the same post exilic group (i.e. Joshua is linguistically identical to the same racists who wrote the book of Deuteronomy, which is part of the socalled Torah)

Actually, if any of you have access to any of the Dead Sea Scroll material you can see at a glance how race-prejudiced at least a certain portion of 1st century "Judaens" were during the 2nd temple period---which was a reaction against Occiupation (first Assyria, then Babylon, then Persia, then Greece, then Syria, then Rome who finally destroyed Israel).

Read for example the racist WAR SCROLL (1QM, Cave One haMilkhama) discovered in 1947 which is filled with US v. THEM mentality, with the utter-destruction of the Kittim (i.e. gentiles) and the triumph of the "elect of Israel".

The Language of the early Christian Church was similarly anti-Goyim (i.e. anti Gentile) in tone until the preaching of Saul of Tarsus who was born outside Palestine in present day Turkey and whose first language was Greek, and thus had an affinity for "gentiles."

One has to reflect the fact that the earliest Christian community ("the Nazoreans") headed up by the family of "Jeezuzz" (i.e. James, read Acts 15) had no "Mission to the Gentiles" who were thought of as "dead" and like women, not worthy of the Life ("A Gentile cannot die, because he has never been given the breath of life, so that he could die..." from the Gospel of Phillip found at Nag Hammadi in 1945)

The Talmud especially is vicious in its descriptions of non Jews (words like "dogs", "idolators" and "cattle" are bandied about rather too freely in the un-edited version), and the same kind of language was retained on the lips of no less a personage than R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean seditionist ("Jeeeezzuzzzz" to the Americans) who was executed for armed revolt against the Majesty of the Divine Tiberius in c. AD 36, who likewise freely refered to the goyim as "dogs" (i.e. the lowest form of animal life to someone living in the Middle East, sort of like an American calling someone today a "cockroach") .

Don't believe me? Then You've got some homework to do !

Haven't you ever read the gospel of Matthew chapter 15?: (which was obviously not written in English, but here's the flavour of the koine Greek which was loosely tranlsated from an Aramaic oral stream placed into the mouth of "Jeeezzzuzzz" whom goyim "Christians" revere as a god for some strange reason):

Ref a Syro Phoenician Gentile woman whose daughter was bleeding to death, who had come to him for help)

[and he spoke to the SyroPhoenician woman saying]: "LADY, I HAVE COME ONLY TO SAVE THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL...AND ANYWAY, SINCE WHEN IS IT RIGHT TO TAKE THE BREAD OUT OF THE MOUTHS OF THE CHILDREN [of the Elect] AND CAST IT TO DOGS UNDER THE TABLE?"

If modern Jews wish to free themselves from the "unforgivable sin of racism", they will have to burn much of the text of the Torah and the Talmud, including all that CHOSEN PEOPLE propaganda, so that they might again be welcomed back into the family of Nations, i.e. 99.9999% of the rest of us...

Food for thought anyway

Did you find this or is this your own work? I have tried to make some of these points before but most do not understand the complexity of the issue. I will save and research this one.

Originally posted by Amadeus

Thus the term "anti Semitism" TECHNICALLY cannot refer to 90% of the world's "Jews" as a "race" since "racially" 90% of the world's "Jews" are Ashkenazim

Please provide serious sources regarding 90% Ashkenazim. I highliy doubt this.

�Antisemitism� means hatred of Jews. Jews are clearly not a race.
I suggest you read the 1.Kings 12,19; 2, Chronicles 11,13 � 17 and 2.Kings 17.

"Ashkenazic" is derived from the Hebrew word for Germany. The word "Sephardic" is derived from the Hebrew word for Spain; Yemenite Jews, the Jews of Ethiopia and Oriental Jews do not fit into this Ashkenazic/Sephardic distinction. Jews have lived in many parts of the world and have developed many different traditions. A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.

Originally posted by Amadeus

But enough of technical definitions: let's get back to the Racism inherent in Zionism, which is the driving force behind "der Judenstadt" of Herzl in 1897, a "state reserved for Jews only"---sounds racist to me at least.

Did you read the book Der Judenstaat"?

Herzel concluded that the only answer to increasing fin-de-siecle European antisemitism was the extrication of the Jews from Europe and the realization of their millennial dream of return to sovereignty in their historic Land. Herzl said, �If you will it, it will be� .

There never was an idea of �a state reserved for jews only�.

David Ben Gurion, on May 14, 1948, at Tel Aviv, delivered



The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel:


.....We appeal - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months � to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.
We extend our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.....

No �state reserved for jews only�, All Israeli citizens have the right to vote in elections for members of the Knesset (parliament) and for the prime minister.

Originally posted by Amadeus

The Torah and the Talmud, when read literally, are actually as racist in tone as Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf, and other neo-Nazi propaganda still floating around today.

The language of Torah and Talmud is very, very different to �Mein Kampf�.

In Hitler's "Mein Kampf" the "Protocols of the Elders of zion" are presented as proof of an alleged "Jewish conspiracy" to dominate the world, and the persecution of Jews as a necessary self-defense.

Originally posted by Amadeus

Actually, if any of you have access to any of the Dead Sea Scroll material you can see at a glance how race-prejudiced at least a certain portion of 1st century "Judaens" were during the 2nd temple period

See here: www.abovetopsecret.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> Qumran: Archeologists Claim Essenes Never Wrote Dead Sea Scrolls

Originally posted by Amadeus

The Talmud .......in the un-edited version

in the w h a t ?

In fact many anti-Talmud polemicists have never studied the Talmud at all.

There are actually two Talmuds: The Jerusalem Talmud and the more comprehensive Babylonian Talmud (= Talmud Bawli) .

Those with no knowledge of Hebrew and Aramaic may prefer one of the two English translations. One is the Soncino edition, (produced between 1934 and the early 1960s, its English is sometimes very very stilted ), the other is the Artscroll edition - a contemporary project that is not yet complete.

And there are lots of falsifications.

Haven't you ever read the gospel of Matthew chapter 15?

No.
The books that Christians call the New Testament are not part of Jewish scripture.


Rebekka


[edit on 2-8-2004 by Riwka]

Rebecca:

You sound a lrather naive about the true history of the "Jewish People" and are ignoring a great deal of evidence of the racism which forms a very distrubing undercurrent in Rabinnic language, and also in the speeches and protests of the ultra right wing in Israel.


ALSO, BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT QUOTING BEN GURION:

I suggest you read the (recently published) UNEDITED private Diaries of Ben Gurion IN HIS OWN HANDWRITING for a taste of the gross racism inherent in his own mind-set and those like him.

His hatred of the Arabs and of "goyim" in general in these private diaries are nothing short of apalling. If the contents of these pages were widely published and read by Jew and non Jews alike, Mr Ben Gurion would go down in history as the bigoted "wart on humanity" that he was.

It is literally enough to make one sick.

And yes, there are scattered unedited ("unexpurgated") versions of the TALMUD that are not generally accessible to goyim. Martin Luther (in the early 1500s) was able to read Hebrew and Aramaic fairly fluent for a goy-boy and was absolutely horrified by the language being used against "non Jews"...

If you really doubt the percentage of Ashkenazim converts in the world which make up the vast majority of the total number, I highly recommend that you have a look at books like "The Thirteenth Tribe The Khazar Empire and its Heritage" by Arthur Koestler (who is himself an Ashkenazi descendant of the mixed race Khazars).

There are a number of recent important studies that have come out in Israel available in print, so I will leave it to you to do your own research and then come back once you've had a chance to re-think your opinions which are coloured somewhat by your idoctrination and background...

There is so much dis-information about "Jews" in the world today, I am not surprised that you are a little muddled. And I certainly did not wish to imply that there are ONLY two types (Sephardim and Ashkenazim) of persons who call themselves "Jews" (don't forget the Falashas!), I was just pointing out the two largest surviving groups.

But because of miscegenation since the destruction of the Northern Kingdom in 721 BC and the ultimate destruction of Judaea (the first round in 70AD and again in 136 AD), there is no such animal as a "pure" race of "jews" in the world anymore.

Recent genetic (human genome) studies have shown far too wide a margin on the scales for people who consider themselves "Jewish" to comprise "one race", and even if we were to go back to the legendary "12 tribes" before the "exiles" into Assyria and Babylon, you would find that there was no one race involved (even the socalled Song of Deborah, some of the oldest paleoHebrew in the Jewish Bible, Judges Chapter 5, lists tribes that were not part of the more familiar 12 (e.g. Machir or Gilead are listed as Tribes, but Levi and Judah are missing from the list).

There are a number of points I would like to make on this thread, but I must state now that I do not feel the 24 Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is genuine, nor do I believe that the average "Jew" is particularly racist. It is just the literature they consider to be "holy" which is racist in content (e.g. the Torah, the prophets and the Talmud, all which pre-suppose "Election." i.e. that the Jews are somehow specially chosen (i.e. Elect ones) just the way Adolf Hilter and the people alligned with his movement in Germany thought in terms of the Aryan peoples ("the master race" who was somehow magically "ordained to rule the slave races" etc.)

For you to categorically deny the direct parallels between Mein Kampf (which I detest) and the Torah of the Jews (which I also detest), you are not reading the texts themselves very closely with an open or scientific mind.

Why did you send the silly link about the non-link between the Ossim and the Scrolls? Even if the "Essenoi" themselves did not pen these scrolls, we can date the writings to the period BC 250 to AD 68 (some were brought to Qumran from the outside, e.g. Jubilees or I Henoch, and Ben Sirach etc.) and are very definitely "Essenoid" in content and apocalyptic outlook.

But my point was that THE GROUP WHO PENNED THESE NASTYGRAMS were a SECT OF JUDAEAN PRIESTS (one of whose 25 titles for themselves was the "sons of Zadok") living at the time of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef, himself another racist-Zionist who looked upon the goyim as Dogs begging under the table.

Is this the mainstream view among ordinary Jews? No. But it is this kind of language that the Rebbes study when they pore over and absorb the Talmud and the Torah day in and day out until on one level they become convinced that some how the "jew" is special, despite the fact that they are no different racially or otherwise from the goyim, thei ancient Israelites having borrowed (adapted or even "stolen" etc.) their grossly superstitious liturgy and world-view, their written language (from Phoencian Ugarit), their technology, their dietary habits, midrashic approach to histories, their laws(e.g. the 10 Commandments are taken from the much older 47 Negative Confessions in Egypt and the 613 "laws of Moses" actually derived from lawcodes in ther region, such as Hammurabi in Babylon whose famous Law-Code predates Moses by 400 years), Cannaite customs such as the Spring Pesach, the ritual levitical sacrificial system (based on Cannaanite and Egyptian practices) and even their so-called "monotheism" (cf: Akhenaten, who predated Moses) from far older and more sophisticated neighbours (e.g. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia).

All of this of course is outside the theme of this thread and would have to be handled separately.

But the average person is unaware of any of this because they tend to "read the Bible as pure history" not knowing what Midrash is, or who even wrote the documents in question, or what groups they were representing, how often these texts had been doctored and re-edited in the past, or (in general) how a propaganda machine actually works---and the Bible (or the Koran for that matter) is a good example of how Priestly Propaganda can get common people to kill in the name of a clan god, and even die for their religion.

Let me ask you this:

Have you ever READ the TORAH carefully and without prejudice?

How can you overlook the racist vomit that is placed into the clan god's mouth (Deuteronomy chapter 13 or chapter 20)?

How can you believe in a clan god who goes out and tells "Moses" in one sentence to "destroy" the idols of the goyim, and then in another, to go out and BUILD a JEBUSITE BRONZE SNAKE IDOL and PLACE IT ON A POLE to save the people from Snake Bite in the desert? (Numbers 21:5)?

(We'll leave his brother Aaron out of the discussion for now, you know, the one who has a habit of making golden calve idols out of spare earings...)

And they have the nerve to call the GOYIM "idolators" !!

(You can file the "Nasty Nehushtan" story IN THE TORAH under "Things your Rabbi would rather not be asked about...")

There's still very much to discuss petaining to this topic in general, but I think I've already written enough for one day...at least to get people off their lazy behinds and do some thinking on their own for a change !

I have many friends who are Jews. I'm half-Jew, in fact, tho I found this out later in life.

But when I was going to grade school, a large percentage of the kids in my class came from an orthodox-Jewish community from around the neighborhood. And I was never around a more nasty, spoiled, and racist bunch in my entire life. They would tell me things like they were from the chosen people, that the poor children were dogs, and that the African-American kids were sub-human gorillas. I'm not saying this because I'm anti-Semetic. I'm half-Jew on my mother's mother's mother's side, so you know what that means. But the way these children carried themselves, the types of things they said, the level of meanness & elitism--where did they learn this from? So though I guess I am technically a Jew, and I have friends now who are Jews--if you are surrounded by this sort of thing growing up, it increases your chance of becoming a racist & believing in whatever bogus documents conspiracy theorists dig up. And seeing the appalling way the blacks & other minorities were treated by these children, I can understand how people like Farrakhan can get such a large audience.

In junior high-school I was beaten up by a Jewish student who said that because my parents were Italian & German, I represented the Axis Powers. I exaggerate not. Luckily he stopped hitting me after I held one of the X-Acto knives we were using for the school project against his neck.

What's the answer? Certainly not bigotry, and violence--but this crap has to stop on all sides.

Originally posted by Cassie Clay

I'm half-Jew,

A �half-Jew� is equal to a �half-pregnant�: it is not possible.

Originally posted by Cassie Clay

that the poor children were dogs, and that the African-American kids were sub-human gorillas.

bad education.
Many poor families are jewish and Jewish population in Africa goes back to bible times.


Rebekka


[edit on 3-8-2004 by Riwka]

Originally posted by Riwka
A �half-Jew� is equal to a �half-pregnant�: it is not possible.

Your wrong. If one of your parents is jewish, then your a half-jew. I know lots of people who i half jews anyways.

@ Amadeus

Originally posted by Amadeus

I suggest you read the (recently published) UNEDITED private Diaries of Ben Gurion

I suggest YOU read the diaries of David Ben Gurion. But please, no false translation.

Originally posted by Amadeus

And yes, there are scattered unedited ("unexpurgated") versions of the TALMUD that are not generally accessible to goyim.

That is wrong. Talmud Bawli and Jersualem Talmud are generally accessible.

Originally posted by Amadeus

Martin Luther (in the early 1500s) was able to read Hebrew and Aramaic fairly fluent

While Luther always upheld the Bible as the basis of belief, and while he speaks very highly of Hebrew, which he calls the best, the richest, and at the same time the plainest language,

he himself did not go back to the original text;

indeed, he admits that he was not a Hebrew scholar, and especially that he knew nothing of Hebrew grammar (ib. lxii. 313). A Hebrew book he had received, he gave to a friend, saying, "Excedit enim vires meas" ("Luther's S�mmtliche Werke," ii. 612, "Briefe")....

JewishEncyclopedia: Martin Luther - Scant Knowledge of Hebrew

Originally posted by Amadeus

If you really doubt the percentage of Ashkenazim converts in the world which make up the vast majority of the total number, I highly recommend that you have a look at books like "The Thirteenth Tribe The Khazar Empire and its Heritage" by Arthur Koestler (who is himself an Ashkenazi descendant of the mixed race Khazars).

...Jews from Iran, Iraq, Yemen, North Africa and European Ashkenazim all cluster together with other Semitic groups, with their origin in the Middle East. A common geographical origin can be seen for all mainstream Jewish groups studied.

This genetic research has clearly refuted the once-current libel that the Ashkenazi Jews are not related to the ancient Hebrews, but are descendants of the Kuzar tribe...

Jewish Genes & Genealogy: The DNA Chain of Tradition


Rebekka


[edit on 3-8-2004 by Riwka]

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by Riwka
A �half-Jew� is equal to a �half-pregnant�: it is not possible.

Your wrong. If one of your parents is jewish, then your a half-jew. I know lots of people who i half jews anyways.

No. You are a Jew or you are NO Jew. There is no �half-jew�

The Nazi- Nuremberg Racial Laws recognized categories of Jews: full Jew, half-Jew and quarter Jew.

� The definition meant that a Jew was now defined from the �blood� � and no longer just on basis of faith. If a person had at least three Jewish grandparents, then this person was of Jewish race. A person was a �half-Jew�, if he had two Jewish grandparents � in German: Mischling ersten Grades. If a person had only one Jewish grandparent, he was a �quarter-Jew� (Mischling zweiten Grades). As it were, quarter-Jews were hardly affected by the Nazi persecution, while both pure Jews and half-Jews fell victim to the terrible Nazi measures.

Holocaust education: Who was Jewish � according to the Nazi racial terminology?


A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.


Rebekka

(btw: Infinite, I like your poems)

Rebecca:

Why do you INSIST on posting silly links to support your untenable positions and gross mis-understandings of your religion?

Your insipid article link "The DNA Chain of Tradition" (written by Rabbi Kleiman no less!) is full of dis-information, and is impossibly unscientific but even so, ONLY addresses the sporadically inbred priestly families among certain mixed descendants of the Israelitish mixed Levetical tribelets.

Also, the link you provided is full of unscientific conclusions and wishful Zionist thinking easily dismissed by any serious researcher into the subject:

QUOTE: "Jewish Tradition based on the Torah is that all Kohanim (priests) are DIRECT DESCENDANTS of Aharon, the Original Kohen...this research findings support the Torah Statements that the Line of Aharon will last throughout history...and should be a reinforcement for all those who know the Torah is the Truth, and that God (!) surely [will reinforce] his promises..."

The findings support no such thing. And by "God" the good rabbi surely means "Yahweh, the clan-god of Israel"...

This is religious hogwash and zionist propaganda with no basis in scientific fact at all ... No mention is made of the Jebusite intermarriages and the revamping of the cult of YHWH during the time of David-Solomon, or of the more complex history of the priesthoods which eventually seized power after the exile when YAHWEH was voted in as the national clan-god forsaking all others after 480 BC (Hear O Yisrae'l, YHWH is our clan god, YHWH alone...! in Deut chapter 6, the socalled Shemaq which most people mistranslate as "Hear O Israel the Lord our God the Lord is one" which is grammatically impossible).

Your attached report flies in the face of literally hundreds of similar genetic blood studies of Jews around the world who show some cohesiveness among Sephardim and the Palestinian Arabids, but very very little genetic cohesiveness between the Sephardim and other Shemites and the non Shemitic Ashkenazim, who are physically very dis-similar in appearance and genetic make up.

But why would your publication even try to hold up Aharon as a priestoly hero in the first place? How thick ARE those rosy coloured glasses of his?

If anything, the Levetical families of Aharon should hang their heads in shame, condemned by the very words of the Torah itself, and not be held up as any exemplar high priest of YHWH (he of the canaanite golden calf and melted earings episode, etc.) ! ' Nuff said !

If you want to learn anything about your true "religious" heritage, you might as well read it from a Jewish (non goy-gentile) author who is still able to take a hard look at the linguistic-textual evidence in the Torah and come to the same conclusions the goyim scholars have come to for the past 150 years

Try to get a hold of the layman's book entitled, WHO WROTE THE BIBLE? by Richard Elliot Friedmann (who is himself an Ashkenazi Jewish textual scholar who studied under the great Frank Cross at Harvard), and you can see the polemic against the family of Aharon in the text of the Torah, and the sources and editors and all the competing rival priestly factions in ancient Israel which led the post exilic book of the Torah (compiled in late Hebrew around 480 BC) to be written in the form in which we read it in the MT.

This is only an introductory book to the more compex Graf Wellhausen theory which has held its ground (with some slight variations) for more than 120 years in the academic world. You might have to read it twice or more to rub off all that disinformational zionist programming of yours you've accumulated judging by your inane comments and rebuttals to some serious questions about Judaeism (and "the Jews") which you cannot cope with apparently.

While you're at it, you might want also to check out the Samaritan version of the Torah (SamPent) for an even more ancient text version (or the Vorlage of the LXX which is also an older text tradition than the Masoretic Text which is derived from a sinlge Manucript in Leningrad around 850 AD during the Khazarian period in the Urkraine).

The genetic history of the Aaronids is basically shrouded in mystery and will not be able to be recaptured anytime soon.

Of all the tribelets, it is true that for centuries the 24 Israelitish priestly "Levetical families" were the most racially inbred of all the Israelitish clans, naturally because the eventually took over the cult of Yahweh after the Babylonian Exile, and there was much concern over Levetical Purity----as the Dead Sea Scrolls declare, the tribal ritual bloodline of Levi must "not be tainted" , and yet it began to become so after the Exile, and this was one of the main reasons (according to MMT) why the Dead Sea Scroll sect broke off from that other group of Zadokites ("sons of Zadok" known as the Tsaddukkim, or Saduccees) in the 2nd Century BC (after the Maccabean revolt)

The Dead Sea Sect looked at the world, like you do, through "rosy coloured glasses" and certainly did not know however that Zadok, through who they derive their own lineage (spiritual as well as possibly physical) was racially a mixed Jebusite (who inbred with the Hittites, i.e. Turks), and not related at all to the Egyptian priestly lines e.g. Aaron by "blood".

Abiathar might have been more related by blood to the Aaronids (whcih themselves were of mixed stock) but take a look at what David did to him when he installed the Jebusite Zadok as high priest in his new capital (the former Jebusite Capital, Jebus, later called Yerushalayim).

Unfortunatley for the writers of the racist article you posted on your last, the Levitical Kohahim lost a great deal of their racial "purity" after the Exile: don't forget what happened in 520 BC:

Of the 24 Levetical "Kohanim" (priestly) families that were exiled to Babylon between 597 and in 587 BC (there must have been several deportations however) only FOUR ever bothered to come back to Eretz Israel, so when the 2nd temple was rebuilt under Nehemiah, the priestly number of 24 families or divisions throughout the year had to be filled up with goyim-gentile non Jews known as Nethinim (or, natanim, "dedicated ones"). The rest remained in Babylon, some of them interbred with the local population, and others tried to retain some semblance of priestly lineage and inbred with each other over the years.

Finding "levetical markers" however is tricky business: for what genetic strand would you use as a base to determine Leveticalness? We don't have the bones of Aaron to play around with, and some recent testing show how widley dispersed the socalled Levetical markers are (they even show up in Nigeria for some reason!)

Thus we can see why the "sons of Zadok" would have been concerned that the blood line had been tainted by gentiles (e.g. Q4MMT - Miqsat Ma'aseh Ha Torah: "But we have separated from those priests in Jerusalem, and all of their impurities of halakhot, for we see clear evidence that the priests (kohanim) of the Camp of Jerusalem have "squeezed" (i.e. lain sexually, interbred with) with goyim, thereby polluting the holy seed of the cohanim of Aaron...and thus threatening to bring down the Curses written about in the Books of Moses upon their heads...")

I am surprised you didn't know about the post Exilic racial impurity of even the 1st century "kohanim," let alone their mixed descendants scattered around the world during the middle ages and their mixture with gentile goyim over the centuries----since I assume you are an Ashkenaz who would like to know the truer history of the roots of your own religion...even though it may not be your "bloodlline" by race !

But first you have to learn how to evaluate primary evidence, and stop leaning on the ravings of the Rebbes...who after all have their own agenda.

Originally posted by Riwka

Originally posted by Cassie Clay

I'm half-Jew,

A �half-Jew� is equal to a �half-pregnant�: it is not possible.

Originally posted by Cassie Clay

that the poor children were dogs, and that the African-American kids were sub-human gorillas.

bad education.
Many poor families are jewish and Jewish population in Africa goes back to bible times.


Rebekka


[edit on 3-8-2004 by Riwka]

"There is no such thing as a half-Jew" -- how can I respond to this in a delicate manner? It's like the kids in school who explained to me that a Jew can't marry a non-Jew because their blood would be "corrupted." Like the kids who said that African-Americans are an inferior race. Or the laws in Israel that prohibit Jews from marrying Palestinians. Why all this obsession with racial purity and bloodline?

And as for "bad education" -- this bad education is rampant, at least in NY. These aren't isolated incidents. Parents of all races & religions should make it a point to teach their children tolerance. If it's part of your religion that your people are the "chosen," that's fine. But teach children some discretion around people not of your religion.

To say "bad education" is not enough--because little children who thoughtlessly degrade or hold an elitist attitude towards others not of their "kind" creates racists. These kids grow up and they concoct or buy into grand conspiracy theories.

It's funny, this is the first time I ever mentioned these things in any sort of forum. When I was growing up, it was taboo to ever mention anything like this. The only thing my parents ever told me that could be construed in any way as being anti-semetic is the warning never to talk out against or criticize the Jews in school or in front of teachers, because I would be blacklisted in my community. And I've seen this happen.

And as for my community now, most of the conservative & non-conservative Jews have pulled their children out of public school and sends them to Yeshiva or private. Some that I've spoken to have cited the reason that there are just "too many blacks." With all the violence & strife & hatred in that area, maybe it's better if everybody sticks to their own corner.

BTW, I think that conservative Christians are just as guilty of this sort of elitist, racist crap. Being a hard-core Jew, Christian, or Muslim who uses scripture to justify everything & thinks that theirs is the only Way leads to discrimination, war, and violence.

Originally posted by Amadeus

ONLY addresses the sporadically inbred priestly families among certain mixed descendants of the Israelitish mixed Levetical tribelets.

No, that is wrong. Read it again.

Originally posted by Amadeus

The findings support no such thing. And by "God" the good rabbi surely means

Of course he means haShem and Torah. What else should the Rebbe mean?

Originally posted by Amadeus

If you want to learn anything about your true "religious" ....

I still prefer the original sources: Talmud /Torah.

But I suggest you learn about jewish life (and read - and understand - the things you are talking about)

If you are interested to see semi-annual Birkat Cohanim (Priestly Blessing) ceremony

grm.haaretz.co.il..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>
- those Jews who trace their ancestry directly back to Aaron the High Priest, Moses' brother, bestow their blessing on the assembled masses - I suggest you come to Jerusalem for Sukkot or Passover holidays.

Originally posted by Amadeus

since I assume you are an Ashkenaz.

No.

Rebekka

Originally posted by Riwka
No. You are a Jew or you are NO Jew. There is no �half-jew�

Of course there is, for example, if your mother is jewish and your father isn't then you half jewish not full.

(btw: Infinite, I like your poems)

Thank you