The Bush-Giuliani Rumor

Originally posted by astroblade
koji, i'm sorry but the graph is insane. if i'm reading it correctly then it asserts that john kerry is in fact to the right in the political system, that he in fact is a conservative, and that is absurd. we know he's for 100% abortion opportunity, including partial-birth abortion, that he's for affirmative action, he's for expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation, and those are only a few indicators. i was also able to find the voting record i was speaking about earlier. it was put out by the National Journal, which is a very established politics/government magazine, and doesn't appear to have much of a bias. here are 4 links to about the report, i offer them as evidence of what i said concerning kerry and his voting record.

www.govexec.com...
washingtontimes.com...
www.freerepublic.com...
www.drudgereport.com...

this next link is to a seperate judging of kerry and who he is in reference to liberal or conservative. it also appears to have little bias one way or the other.

www.issues2000.org...
scroll to the way bottom for a chart.


ahh don you're right, sorry about that, it's not concerning senatorial history, rather just as of late. and no i couldn't find a source for kerry's quote, ignore it then if you wish.


[edit on 30-7-2004 by astroblade]

thanks for the links. politicalcompass is a UK based site, and in general the US really has no "true" mainstream left compared to Europe.

this is an explanation from their FAQ:

You've got liberals on the right. Don't you know they're left ?

This response is exclusively American. Elsewhere neo-liberalism is understood in standard political science terminology - deriving from mid 19th Century Manchester Liberalism, which campaigned for free trade on behalf of the capitalist classes of manufacturers and industrialists. In other words, laissez-faire or economic libertarianism.

In the United States, 'liberals' are understood to believe in leftish economic programmes such as welfare and publicly funded medical care, while also holding liberal social views on matters such as law and order, peace, sexuality, women's rights etc. The two don't necessarily go together.

Our Compass rightly separates them. Otherwise, how would you label someone like the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan who, on the one hand, pleased the left by supporting strong economic safety nets for the underprivileged, but angered social liberals with his support for the Vietnam War, the Cold War and other key conservative causes ?

-koji K.

[edit on 30-7-2004 by koji_K]

koji, i think in european context the graph starts to make sense, so i retract saying it's insane. i do still believe though that based solely on american political ideals the results are far different. i think what makes the difference is the social aspects and issues. i hope that made sense. whatever, at least it's new information to digest.

don, i'm going to assume you wrote your latest post before reading my retraction/correction. and i hope i wasn't sensing a hint of smugness in that post of yours. we're all honest people here and just sometimes make minor mistakes.

Originally posted by astroblade
don, i'm going to assume you wrote your latest post before reading my retraction/correction. and i hope i wasn't sensing a hint of smugness in that post of yours. we're all honest people here and just sometimes make minor mistakes.

Yes, I had read your retraction/correction about the National Journal ratings being about current politics not senatorial history. I wasn't being smug. I was just offering evidence indicating that Kerry is not the most liberal senator in senate history.

don it's how you said it. i corrected myself before you even posted, and yet you come out with "Get that", and saying you just debunked me and my statement. you didn't need to do anything after i corrected my previous statement.

Originally posted by astroblade
don it's how you said it. i corrected myself before you even posted, and yet you come out with "Get that", and saying you just debunked me and my statement. you didn't need to do anything after i corrected my previous statement.

Yes, yes. You conceded that the National Journal study did not support the claim that Kerry was the most liberal senator in senatorial history. But it was still an open question as to whether Kerry was indeed the most liberal senator in history. As I said, I was just offering evidence quoted from the National Journal to support the proposition that Kerry was NOT the most liberal senator in senatorial history. Can we say this matter is closed now? You have admitted your mistake. I am not beating you over the head with it.