Robert Fisk: Was He Betrayed? Of Course. Pakistan Knew Bin Laden's Hiding Place All Along

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by burntheships

 

It will not surprise me in the least if he pops up in some huge public location.

Yes, he can just change his looks a bit and get rolled back into The Brotherhood.

Originally posted by burntheships

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by burntheships

 

It will not surprise me in the least if he pops up in some huge public location.

Yes, he can just change his looks a bit and get rolled back into The Brotherhood.

Either that or supporting a new and "much more dangerous organization" according to Government.

These scripts are about as appealing and easily seen as the tripe Hollywood pumps out.

Nothing new here, citizen, time for the next gladiator to be unveiled.

End Foreign Aid!
Unfortunately this may not change foreign policy

Check this out,they have a "treasure trove" of media devices that they captured in the 40 min raid.
www.guardian.co.uk...

If only we could take a peek at THAT raw data..But no way Jose.
Not for us to see until it has been sanitised.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Talk about the largest case of Federal and International fraud ever done.

The war on drugs disputes your claim.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


A complete and total end of foreign aid, starting with the United Nations, needs to happen.

I agree 100% with that assessment.

Giving away money to other countries when ours is hurting is ignorant.

reply to post by Silcone Synapse


If it was in actuality Osama bin Laden.

If it had anything relevant to anything he was alleged to have done.

If it was connected to al-Qaeada at all.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Talk about the largest case of Federal and International fraud ever done.

The war on drugs disputes your claim.

The two "wars" are probably about neck and neck.

"Wars" on two fronts which have no intention of ever ending.

They are not in actuality "wars" because they have no intention in going after the sources.

If the War on Drugs was intended to be won they would go after sources.

The Golden Triangle and Golden Crescent and as well Columbia.

If the War on Terror was intended to be won they would go after the sources.

Washington D.C., the C.I.A., the State Department, the Russell Trust Foundation and many others.

I think we can be sure of one thing, we will not know the details, nor what *really happened or when. This is a saga born over many years and all those who were involved both wittingly and not, what led up to it, how it played out and what comes next and why will all be things we will never know for sure. People can speculate all they want, at the end of the day we know only what is released. The tip of the iceberg, nothing more. Not that I would discourage digging around, never know what ya might find...

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Until such time as I've seen his body dead in front of me it is "allegedly dead".

heh, ya, good luck with that.

Anyhow, the overall topic of Pakistan knowing about Binny's hiding spot..well...its my understanding that we (for some reason) give an average of about 2b a year to them..in 2008, we gave them close to 8b. the funds were meant to fight terrorism

I think if its found out they indeed did know of OBL's location...well, I think we need to get that money back...and should they decide not to comply, well, I guess a federal boycott of all their crap could be in order.

Its not a slap in the face of just america..its the entire west, and actually most of non-radical islam.

Oh what tangled webs we weave

It is plausible that If it's revealed that Pakistan knew OBL's whereabouts then it could also be revealed that the Admin knew too which is probably far closer to the truth than TPTB want revealed. 2B for Pakistan's complicity perhaps.

OBL may have been BHO's card up his sleeve. Played now in an attempt to forestall blow back from the burgeoning debate over BHO's eligibility, the devalued dollar/inflation, rotten economic outlook and invigorate pinnochio-in-chief's re election camaign. (Not to mention the push for immigration reform.)

Just a theory.

Originally posted by LadySkadi
I think we can be sure of one thing, we will not know the details, nor what *really happened or when. This is a saga born over many years and all those who were involved both wittingly and not, what led up to it, how it played out and what comes next and why will all be things we will never know for sure. People can speculate all they want, at the end of the day we know only what is released. The tip of the iceberg, nothing more.

Yes, just like certain athletes, there will forever be an * by Osama bin Laden's name and death.

The unwitting, the unwilling, and the unknowing will speak about it for decades to come.

While I certainly accept we will only be told so much I do not accept that as the final answer.

The tip of the iceberg indeed and we have many means to dig further.

Originally posted by robyn
It is plausible that If it's revealed that Pakistan knew OBL's whereabouts then it could also be revealed that the Admin knew too which is probably far closer to the truth than TPTB want revealed. 2B for Pakistan's complicity perhaps.

OBL may have been BHO's card up his sleeve. Played now in an attempt to forestall blow back from the burgeoning debate over BHO's eligibility, the devalued dollar/inflation, rotten economic outlook and invigorate pinnochio-in-chief's re election camaign. (Not to mention the push for immigration reform.)

Just a theory.

Nothing would surprise me as far as Pakistan is concerned.

The same can be said about Barack Obama's Administration.

And yes, this could be Obama's push, using Osama bin Laden, as a means to recover.

Recovering from a bad first term when many people think he has done horribly.

Another informative thread by you, SKL.

Interesting read by Fisk. Yes, I believe Pakistanis finally gave OBL up/let him go, but for what reason?

Did he become a liability/no longer an asset to them at some point? When was that point?

And how did they benefit, what deal was worked out?

Something of mutual agreement to Pakistan and US was worked out, at what point?

Originally posted by desert
I believe Pakistanis finally gave OBL up/let him go, but for what reason?

I don't believe they gave him up.

I do believe they didn't stand in the way of America initiating a covert mission to apprehend a criminal.

Originally posted by Annee
I do believe they didn't stand in the way of America initiating a covert mission to apprehend a criminal.

Yes. Yes, that is probably what happened.

A look at Wed May 4 Pakistan Times shows two interesting articles, among others
Chins'a comment and Pakistan's

reply to post by desert


I'm not certain Pakistan gave Osama bin Laden so easily.

I'm also not certain the man is dead either.

And the words used, "double-tap", is an odd choice of words.

The Navy S.E.A.L.'s are taught to shoot in groups of three shots.

Especially the United States Naval Special Warfare Development Group men.

Does this mean the first shot missed and two others did not?

Hardly.

There is another colloquial use of that term, "double-tap", which means execution.

Which says that he might have been on his knees if he was killed at all.

And to be buried at sea to stop a grave from happening?

The Navy only buries those at sea to honor the fallen.

To suggest he was buried at sea to keep his followers from making it a shrine is silly.

Yes, they would do that, but a burial at sea?

Lock the body away in some top secret location.

Something fishy is going on.

Whether the account of the death.

Or the account of it happening at all.

Or whether another lie has been passed by our fearless leader to cover his ass.

I do not believe Osama bin Laden was killed at all.

Then again I have yet to have believed anything coming out of Barack Obama's mouth.

Color me as skeptical as Dick Marcinko is ugly.

Yeah. Sigh.

There are two Pakistans. Just like there are two of every country.

What a bleeping mess.

ETA: And by the way...this might support a lot of what's been said here. As one by one, they all weigh in to pave the path to the inevitable.

Afghan ministry says Pakistan should have known bin Laden was [there]

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Yeah. Sigh.

There are two Pakistans. Just like there are two of every country.

What a bleeping mess.

ETA: And by the way...this might support a lot of what's been said here. As one by one, they all weigh in to pave the path to the inevitable.

Afghan ministry says Pakistan should have known bin Laden was [there]

edit on 5/4/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)

There are two Pakistan's just as there are two America's and two of every other country.

The law-abiding and the non-law-abiding and the diplomatic and upset.

And diplomacy be damned but they can agree with something privately and denounce it publicly.

This has always been the way of politics.

As a matter of fact people will tell those they speak with just that and make it clear.

This gives people deniability and as well to save face for their cowardice to the people.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


From the article:

Of course, there is one more obvious question unanswered: couldn't they have captured Bin Laden? Didn't the CIA or the Navy Seals or the US Special Forces or whatever American outfit killed him have the means to throw a net over the tiger? "Justice," Barack Obama called his death. In the old days, of course, "justice" meant due process, a court, a hearing, a defence, a trial. Like the sons of Saddam, Bin Laden was gunned down. Sure, he never wanted to be taken alive – and there were buckets of blood in the room in which he died.

But a court would have worried more people than Bin Laden. After all, he might have talked about his contacts with the CIA during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, or about his cosy meetings in Islamabad with Prince Turki, Saudi Arabia's head of intelligence. Just as Saddam – who was tried for the murder of a mere 153 people rather than thousands of gassed Kurds – was hanged before he had the chance to tell us about the gas components that came from America, his friendship with Donald Rumsfeld, the US military assistance he received when he invaded Iran in 1980.

I wonder that too, they should have captured him alive if he was unarmed when shot in the face and chest. Obviously, they didn't want him brought back alive because a trial would have opened up a whole new can of worms, and considering the fact that 9/11 is not listed as one of Osama's crimes on the FBI website, they might have a hard time proving their evidence, which we would all like to see anyway, and convicting him. Not to mention, all he could have said regarding his past with the CIA, as the OP mentioned.

That was the best article I've read so far regarding Osama's death and past, this thread has tons of information that I hadn't seen before. I’ve got to read Steve Coll’s books as I feel like I am far behind now as to what is really happening.

Thanks for the heads up.

I said this in another thread also. Is there any evidence, even a little to suggest that Pakistanis knew where OBL was hiding? As far as I know there isn't. So how about it?