Osama Bin Laden Killed in U.S. Raid

Originally posted by 000063

Originally posted by AeroGuy

Originally posted by Sparky63

He did not deserve a trial in my opinion.

A trial would have been the best option,

No it would not have been!

Americans would have been taken captive and executed all over the world demanding his release.

A trial? Seriously...do you know how many American lives that would cost as it dragged on?


Responding to my own post...

Also...Remember the outrage at the idea that any of the Prisoners at Guantanimo Bay would be tried in the states? Nobody wanted it done in thier state because of security concerns? Where would we put OBL on trial? Who would volounteer to host the the trial and hold him until trial?

reply to post by ShaunHatfield


I am not taking these statements as facts but these are all to be followed up on in detail. There is an endless amount of garbage coming out regarding this story and wether or not to beleive it is entirely up to you.

I for one will be keeping viligant and keeping my eyes and ears open.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by 000063
Once you assume they'd want to ride roughshod over Islamic custom to meet an extraordinary definition of proof, yes.

So, our government holds Islamic custom, over proper forensic investigation, and proving to it's citizens that our #1 enemy has been killed.

DNA testing has qualified as proof in the past. Declaring it's suddenly inadequate is moving the goalposts.

That's an interesting, and sudden turn of events. I guess nobody told them they had the setting of 2 suns to bury the body.

If they had a positive ID from DNA, you think they should just keep him around for giggles? Ship him to the US for an autopsy to show that he did, in fact, die from being shot in the head?

But, they got er done in less than 10 hours? My @ss. Muslims would give us a pass on this guy anyway, since he's allegedly murdered thousands of Muslims as well as Americans. If a few had a problem with it, oh well. They'd make a little noise, and forget about it, as usual.

Reaction is mixed. Stop trying to paint all the Muslims in the world as a homogenous mass with one collective opinion. People from all sorts of races, places, and backgrounds make up the Muslim world.

You guys over there at Centcom, or wherever you are, know that full well. So, how's that new U.S. military social media program working out for ya anyway? Kinda curious since our tax money is being used to fund your little operation. You're welcome.

No more ad hominem. I'm not a shill. I'm just a smart guy skiving off on homework.

Originally posted by maybereal11
What would do it for you? A long form Death Certificate? C'Mon...Honestly???

Well, since they ditched the body, pictures would do it for me, personally. Let's see if they release them. I'm not a bang my head against the wall conspiracy theorist. I will accept proof, if it's provided.

Originally posted by 000063
DNA testing has qualified as proof in the past. Declaring it's suddenly inadequate is moving the goalposts.

Are we going in circles, or what? DNA testing done by the people making the claim, isn't reliable. If it were done through an independent 3rd party, it would be proof to me.

If they had a positive ID from DNA, you think they should just keep him around for giggles? Ship him to the US for an autopsy to show that he did, in fact, die from being shot in the head?

I dunno, I'm not an expert in this field, it just feels wrong in my gut, that they did away with his body so quick. Maybe they could clone it, and execute a fresh Bin Laden during the Superbowl halftime show every year.

No more ad hominem. I'm not a shill. I'm just a smart guy skiving off on homework.

Whatever man. It just seems like you have a very strong desire to respond to each, and every post critical of the U.S. gov. My gut tells me there's something strange about that.

reply to post by ShaunHatfield


I have no idea how your name got linked to the 2nd quote (I have now corrected it) but it certainly appears that you did say the first quote.

from the thread posted earlier here

US official: "The only skeptics are extremists and they wouldn't be convinced by a photograph anyway.

As i thought much they will never release any photos or videos.
As for the bin laden i dont believe it.


Its almost like they took the words straight from that book Team 6, Navy seals.

reply to post by 000063

They buried Saddam in 22 hours, and didn't perform an autopsy on him, either, because it was pretty obvious he was dead of broken neck. Having your head blown open tends to be fatal, for some reason.

huh an autopsy was perform on saddam.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
from the thread posted earlier here

US official: "The only skeptics are extremists and they wouldn't be convinced by a photograph anyway.

As i thought much they will never release any photos or videos.
As for the bin laden i dont believe it.


Its almost like they took the words straight from that book Team 6, Navy seals.

Just a second. Who is this US official and why does his word mean a thing?

Now, don't forget a number of people have said in this thread they wouldn't be convinced by a photo anyway, so the unnamed US Official is actually correct.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by maybereal11
What would do it for you? A long form Death Certificate? C'Mon...Honestly???

Well, since they ditched the body, pictures would do it for me, personally. Let's see if they release them. I'm not a bang my head against the wall conspiracy theorist. I will accept proof, if it's provided.

I'll take you at your word.

For me, having a brother in the Special Forces deployed in Afghanistan, who while not directly involved, was involved in support and preparation of the operation, is my strongest evidence...but that is just my anonymous word and I understand that.

Second for me...Logic...Everything I examine from Pakistan's reaction, to local witnesses, to various explanations by various intelligence officials makes sense. Even the inconsistencies. If they had come out hours after the operation with a precise blow by blow recounting of how it went down...then I would be suspect.
A constructed story would be precise and immediate after months of creating and testing it...rather than the confusion as to specifics we saw. How did the chopper crash? Did it get to close to one of the walls? Mechanical failure...OBL armed or unarmed? Human shield? All of this is "Natural" confusion as higher ups look to answer questions that only Team 6 knows for sure. A precise accounting of events immediately following them would be more suspect.

Third...The killing of OBL would not be a claim a government would want to make without being damn sure. It would be a history making embarrasment if he resurfaced and everyone in DC knows it. They quadruple confirmed it was him.

Fourth...Facial recognition ...I have some understanding how the high end sw packages work and they are insanely precise....and I have to imagine that the CIA and NSA have a FR package that makes the already precise off the shelf packages look lame. The simplest way I can explain it...imagine taking a hundred photgraphs of OBL...running them through a supercomputer that measures the distance between his eyes...take that line between the eyes and that distance and divided by that distance and his nose...then mouth...then chin...then precise unique ear shape...then head size..any features unchanged by weight gain or loss... etc. etc. and comming up with something like .321497645678323459 as an answer. For each individual this number would be different...even twins. Confirmed.

Fifth...DNA...they have collected samples from many of OBLs siblings both volountarily and covertly in the form of hair, saliva on a glass, ciggerette bud etc. They have been preparing for this day for a long time. DNA?...Match.


Photographs...while I understand that human beings are chiefly visual creatures...it is our dominant sense...we remember things visually and process things visually first...I also know pics are the easiest thing to fake. I know it will put things to rest for some, but to me the rest of the evidence is simply overwhelming and pics are not neccessary...and I am ready for OBLs to fade into obscurity and hope he gets no more attention...even as a corpse.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by maybereal11
What would do it for you? A long form Death Certificate? C'Mon...Honestly???

Well, since they ditched the body, pictures would do it for me, personally. Let's see if they release them. I'm not a bang my head against the wall conspiracy theorist. I will accept proof, if it's provided.

Good.

Problem is, there are plenty of people who are already declaring that any pictures that are released will be Photoshopped. They're dismissing evidence before said evidence is actually produced. If those people actually saw the body, they would say it could be faked and demand DNA testing. It gets tested, they say The Government "got to" the testing authority. And so on. They just keep going until they reach some sort of "proof" it is impossible to produce, and then say it's evidence of a conspiracy, never admitting that all their previous definitions have been met.

You, at least, are moderately reasonable.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by 000063

 

They buried Saddam in 22 hours, and didn't perform an autopsy on him, either, because it was pretty obvious he was dead of broken neck. Having your head blown open tends to be fatal, for some reason.

huh an autopsy was perform on saddam.

Really? I Googled, but I wasn't able to find anything from reputable news sources. Link please?

Originally posted by 27jd

No more ad hominem. I'm not a shill. I'm just a smart guy skiving off on homework.

Whatever man. It just seems like you have a very strong desire to respond to each, and every post critical of the U.S. gov. My gut tells me there's something strange about that.

And you are obviously an Al-Qaeda operative looking to lessen the impact of your leader being assasinated and to spread misinformation aimed at discrediting the USA.

See where this leads?

ad hominem...not OK...make your case on the evidence.

IN 2008 Christina Amanpour stated that she had reliable info that Osama was not in a cave in Tora Bora but was instead, living in a comfortable villa in Pakistan.

www.breitbart.tv... s-in-nice-comfortable-villa-in-pakistan/

It appears to have been common knowledge in at least some circles that the Pakistani government had been shielding Osama for years. I hope she is interviewed and pressed to reveal more info about her statement. If the government has known for quite some time where he was it calls into question the timing of the assassination. Why now? Inquiring minds want to know!

reply to post by DJKris

Now, don't forget a number of people have said in this thread they wouldn't be convinced by a photo anyway, so the unnamed US Official is actually correct.

Yea i know but then that makes becomes a cover up

US official: "The only skeptics are extremists and they wouldn't be convinced by a photograph anyway.

skeptics also mean photo experts.

Don't know if this has been posted yet. This newish story is pretty interesting reading as far as holes go, particularly in regard to something I've been trying to keep an eye on..who did the Seals have the "firefights" with? Out of the firefights, the only casualties were OBL, a woman, and two couriers?

Bin Laden's Compound 'Built for Deception,' Potential Attack
Read more: www.foxnews.com...

Also, they're blaming the "fog of war" for all the confusing and conflicting info that's coming out. Thought they watched and listened? Or at least had it relayed to them real time from Panetta? I've been using this phrase ("fog of war") sarcastically since I read it and forgot maybe not everyone is aware of this explanation yet...

Administration's initial misstatements raise questions

"Frankly, I don't know," McDonough continued. "I've seen differing accounts as we gather more information. I don't know for certain whether bin Laden was armed or not. But I do know that our tremendous ... assault team that made that raid that day made exactly the right decision in each case, as far as I'm concerned."

Carney acknowledged the difficulty in getting all the facts right in such a situation, telling reporters that "to use your phrase -- fog of war, fog of combat -- that there was a lot of information coming in. It is still unclear."

Their phrase.

reply to post by Sparky63


your trust Christina Amanpour words? if Christina Amanpour has credible has a true journalist, she was one sided in the bosnian conflict.

"Some people accused me of being pro-Muslim in Bosnia, but I realised that our job is to give all sides an equal hearing, but in cases of genocide you can't just be neutral. You can't just say, 'Well, this little boy was shot in the head and killed in besieged Sarajevo and that guy over there did it, but maybe he was upset because he had an argument with his wife.' No, there is no equality there, and we had to tell the truth."[23]

but in cases of genocide you can't just be neutral. You can't just say, 'Well, this little boy was shot in the head and killed in besieged Sarajevo and that guy over there did it,

So i wonder which side would have Christina Amanpour taken in Vietnam? if i had to bet she would be on the governments side, just like she was on and in during the Bosnian conflict.



I wouldn't trust any words from Christina Amanpour to be taken seriously.



genocide was happening in Vietnam but was done by the united states.

Originally posted by Sparky63
IN 2008 Christina Amanpour stated that she had reliable info that Osama was not in a cave in Tora Bora but was instead, living in a comfortable villa in Pakistan.

If the government has known for quite some time where he was it calls into question the timing of the assassination. Why now? Inquiring minds want to know!

Suspecting he is in a comfy villa in Pakistan and knowing where he is precisely are two very different things considering the country has a population of almost 200 Million.

Right?

reply to post by maybereal11


It's interesting that she was right when the rest of the, so called, intelligence community believed that he was holed up in a cave like some wild animal.
Like I said, I hope this is followed up on. Whether you like her or not, the point is that she was right when almost everyone else was wrong.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity

Also, they're blaming the "fog of war" for all the confusing and conflicting info that's coming out. Thought they watched and listened?

I assume the video feed was via arial drone or chopper cam. The Seals were operating in the dark as well.

While I am sure someone relayed after the fact that they got OBL...I doubt it was like "I am now shooting at an individual in room 3...he fired twice...I am firing back"...yada yada

It was much more likely that what they saw was a lot of flashes and gunfire in the dark and then the report that they got OBL and were confirming his identity.

Things like how many people shot back or why did a helicopter fail would be left for debriefing later and then the CO or whoever would have to gather details and compile a detailed accounting and then officially report back...and in the meanwhile the press is throwing all kinds of questions at the pols and brass making the announcements....and those guys hate to stand at a podium and say "I don't know".