Egypt to Israel : You have no right to interfere with our decision to open the Gaza border

reply to post by Eliad


Eliad, some would say Israel is a provocateur or even the agressor. You do agree with me that they initiated the 6 day war by launching premptive strikes?
Others say Israel dosen't want peace with Hamas. Personally to an extent I subscribe to this theory. I believe that Israel hasn't taken the proper steps in obtaining/maintaining peace. One of these steps is the withdrawal to the pre-June 1967 borders and the agreement with resolution 242. Also the fact is Israel is not in agreement with international law, which states that the aqusition of territory through war is inadbissable and that the transfer of civillian population into occupied territories is illegal.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Wrong and wrong again.

242 say withdrawal from Occupied territories.
Not, Withdrawal from ALL occupied territories.
Not, withdrawal from THE occupied territories.

This line is in accordance with this next line:
" right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force”

If anything, the debate needs to to be between Israel Jordan and Egypt. Not Palestine. There was never a country or anything called Palestine. There never was a group of people called Palestinians until 1967.

Now, where exactly did you see Hamas willing to have peace with Israel as long as they abide to the 242 resolution? How does it go hand in hand with their call to have ALL of Israel ?

Talk about disinformation, Sure.

reply to post by phatpackage


Here is your beloved non oppressive Israel you speak of! Its all for the settlers and 'terrorising innocent civilians.

The MSM will never show this stuff to the masses!

When Montgomery comes to Nabi Saleh

They're just real smooth at keeping things under wraps, and everyone else is evil...

reply to post by blah2200


aljazeera bahahahahaha! About as legit as Debka or PressTV lol lol!.

You paint a very one sided picture glorifying these Arab immigrants who call themselves Palestinians. If these morons stop firing rockets everyday into Israel, hiding like cowards in schools and hospitals (using them as human shields) etc etc they may just get somewhere at the negotiation table. bahahahahaha!

By the way what has this to do with the thread title?

reply to post by gravitational

Ummm... Wrong? The words aren't mine. I didn't write the resolution. It clearly states

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

Therefor that equates to the withdrawal of the pre-June 1967 borders.

If anything, the debate needs to to be between Israel Jordan and Egypt. Not Palestine. There was never a country or anything called Palestine. There never was a group of people called Palestinians until 1967.

Do you understand the concept of diplomacy and foreign policy. First of all, what relevance does the fact that Palestine never had official statehood play in the equation? The nation of Palestine never had statehood... Yes, you are right. What difference does this make? Does this justify an Israeli invasion and the displacement of civilians? No... Unless of course you are a disturbed individual. The question of legal statehood is of no importance to the debate. The fact is, it is the Palestinians (who want to be independant of not just Israel, but of Egypt, Jordan and Syria) that Israel is in conflict with.

The ethnicity of the people who live in Gaza and the West Bank, or the people who lived in Palestine prior to Israel creation or the people who lived in Palestine after Israel creation plays no relevance in the debate either.

Did you know many Jews didn't even care for Israel when they imigrated to Israel. Many came from Russia after Boris Yeltsin brought forth un-populour economic reforms. They explicity said so themselves. They only came becuase it was better then staying in Russia. This is un-desputable. They were used as a cheap labour force and replaced many Palestinians in this sense. However I don't claim this has any relavance in the argument of a peace settlement. You are relying on facts which are completely arbitrary.

You are relying on trivial historic facts which play no relevance in the argument to justify Israels actions and Israel foreign policy.

I said that the comment/statement regarding an acceptance of peace under the pre-June 1967 borders- from Hamas was debatable. I never said that I agreed with it. I did say I believe Hamas would as it would be stupid to not. Hamas agreed to peace under the pre-June 1967 borders as far back as the Carter administration. I apologise I'm going to have to dig through a few books to find a source. I read this a couple of years ago.
A quick google search brought me to this paper: www.palint.org...
However I will continue to dig through books to confirm this.
Here is more sources and proof.
www.fmep.org...

April 21, 2008
“’We agree on the [Palestinian] state with the borders of June 4, 1967, Jerusalem as its capital, fully sovereign without settlements, the right of return, but without the recognition of Israel’.”
(Qtd. in “Hamas: No plan to recognize Israel,” CNN.com, April 21, 2008, edition.cnn.com...).

reply to post by phatpackage


"Mark Perry is a military and political analyst and author of eight books, including Partners In Command, George Marshall and Dwight Eisenhower in War and Peace, and most recently Talking To Terrorists.

This article first appeared in Foreign Policy.

The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera's editorial policy".

That article is not written by anyone who works for Al Jazeera, actually!

rafah will be open like it or not.

on the other hand israel is superior militarily. better tech. better weapons. better training. nukes.

whats there to be afraid of? really? you can wipe them off the face of the planet anytime...

stop acting like you have an inferiority complex...seriously...

Originally posted by phatpackage
reply to post by blah2200

 

aljazeera bahahahahaha! About as legit as Debka or PressTV lol lol!.

You paint a very one sided picture glorifying these Arab immigrants who call themselves Palestinians. If these morons stop firing rockets everyday into Israel, hiding like cowards in schools and hospitals (using them as human shields) etc etc they may just get somewhere at the negotiation table. bahahahahaha!

By the way what has this to do with the thread title?

And actually it is not just the Muslims they target, even Israeli Arabs (Christians) are treated as second grade citizens in 'Israel', and Christian Palestinians are persecuted. And their land confiscated!

Mr Sansour a Christian Palestinian.

Oh and the above aint Gaza!!

Originally posted by phatpackage
reply to post by blah2200

 

aljazeera bahahahahaha! About as legit as Debka or PressTV lol lol!.

You paint a very one sided picture glorifying these Arab immigrants who call themselves Palestinians. If these morons stop firing rockets everyday into Israel, hiding like cowards in schools and hospitals (using them as human shields) etc etc they may just get somewhere at the negotiation table. bahahahahaha!

By the way what has this to do with the thread title?

Your demonization of Al Jazeera and comparason to Debka and PressTV are laughably inaccurate. On which basis do you say that Al Jazzera is any less reliable then say- Haeerz or CNN? Do you care to provide support towards this argument instead of just making wide generilizations? However as Blah has pointed out Al Jazeera is using a source, it wasn't published by them.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant

do you say that Al Jazzera is any less reliable then say- Haeerz or CNN?

They are all as bad as each other. I don't like any of them! The two mentioned were the first thing that came to mind

reply to post by phatpackage


Ok then which media outlets are legitimate in accordance with you.
MSNBC?
Fox News?
Russia Today?
BBC?
When it comes to reporting the bare facts I believe both Haaretz and Al Jazeera are both credible.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


None. I don't favour or rely on any them anywhere in the world to provide the facts!

reply to post by phatpackage


So where do you get your facts from? You seem to be very defensive against something you have no idea about... Do you have first hand evidence?

The information I posted for you is quite factual if you actually take the time to read them. I have more if you like because these things are happening to my family members, and 'We are not radical Muslims, nor are We Muslim...

Originally posted by ender_shadow
reply to post by backinblack

 

Again with the deflection?! it's not a numbers game... it's the fact that Hamas (and the others) INTENTIONALLY (look the word up in a dictionary will you?) targets civilians, while Israel DOES NOT...

Here's an experiment for you. Has Israel wanted to kill tons of civilians, how long would you think it'd take the Israeli air force to turn Gaza into a parking lot and kill tens of thousands of civilans? Answer: NOT LONG... so, if Israel really wanted to kill civilians by the droves, it would have done so and in far greater numbers.

I'll try and show it for you using boolean logic... INTENTIONAL != UN-INTENTIONAL... see?

Israel has, is and will continue to attack civilians, INTENTIONALLY. They don't give a damn about the life of any Palestinian, nor about any conventions they may have agreed to previously.

The only thing which restrains Israel currently is not wanting to be on the receiving end of too much negatie public opinion. If they thought they could get away with it they would raise the whole of Palestine to the ground tomorrow, civilians and all.

Originally posted by blah2200
reply to post by phatpackage

 

So where do you get your facts from? You seem to be very defensive against something you have no idea about... Do you have first hand evidence?

The information I posted for you is quite factual if you actually take the time to read them. I have more if you like because these things are happening to my family members, and 'We are not radical Muslims, nor are We Muslim...

edit on 3-5-2011 by blah2200 because: (no reason given)

Are you saying these are not facts?

firing rockets everyday into Israel, hiding like cowards in schools and hospitals (using them as human shields)

Do you have first hand evidence?

Yes actually from Jewish people I know in my community who have personally been subject to daily rocket fire from Palestinian terrorists and childhood friends who serve in the Australian military who have completed tours of the Sinai and other border areas destroying tunnels and stopping the flow of weapons into Gaza! So yes I do know what I am talking about "first Hand" and there is nothing the likes of you can say that will change that fact!

Something I have no idea about bahahahahahahahah! I obviously know a lot more than you give credit for!

Originally posted by phatpackage

Originally posted by blah2200
reply to post by phatpackage

 

So where do you get your facts from? You seem to be very defensive against something you have no idea about... Do you have first hand evidence?

The information I posted for you is quite factual if you actually take the time to read them. I have more if you like because these things are happening to my family members, and 'We are not radical Muslims, nor are We Muslim...

edit on 3-5-2011 by blah2200 because: (no reason given)

Are you saying these are not facts?

firing rockets everyday into Israel, hiding like cowards in schools and hospitals (using them as human shields)

Show me your proof please, where they fire rockets everyday, links would be nice?

Do you have first hand evidence?

Yes actually from Jewish people I know in my community who have personally been subject to daily rocket fire from Palestinian terrorists and childhood friends who serve in the Australian military who have completed tours of the Sinai and other border areas destroying tunnels and stopping the flow of weapons into Gaza! So yes I do know what I am talking about "first Hand" and there is nothing the likes of you can say that will change that fact!

Something I have no idea about bahahahahahahahah! I obviously know a lot more than you give credit for!

Where is your proof? I will give you more if you show me some shred of evidence on these claims... So the Jews in your community in Sydney? Dont think the rockets they have reach as far as to hit you guys in Bondi and Randwick!! Can you provide evidence of these military friends stopping this inflow of weapons? Please entertain me with this "first hand" evidence as I have provided....

reply to post by blah2200


Here is evidence that the Australian Army works the Sinai. It does not go into full details of the mission though

www.defence.gov.au...

What else do you want? If you want their name and rank well you can jam that!

maybe you can call the Australian military and ask them yourself!

Dont think the rockets they have reach as far as to hit you guys in Bondi and Randwick!!

gee you have a wealth of brain power do you not? people who have immigrated here! Duh! If you want their names and addresses well you can jam that too!

By the way you are stereotyping Jewish people by assuming that they only live in the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney Bahahahahah! at your lack of knowledge about Sydney! Sounds like someone could be racist against Jews!

You want a link? here is one en.wikipedia.org...

However I find the testimony of my personal friends more interesting and touching!

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


At times, I agree, it is the provocateur and the aggressor, but in general its policy and goal is not to destroy or harm, but rather to defend and maintain security and control. Doesn't mean they always make the right choice, but they're definitely not out to get everyone...

6 day war is a good example, the Arab nations were breaking armistice terms, calling out for Israel's destruction and moving forces to the border, what would you have done?

When the same thing happened in Yum Kippur the Israeli government decided not to react and we were caught with our pants down... People's lives are at stake, you know, this isn't a game to those who are out there in the field..

I don't think Israel trusts Hamas, and I don't think Hamas trusts Israel.. Whether or not it wants peace with Hamas I don't know, but it does want peace with the Palestinian people..

You are forgetting that right after the 6 day war Israel immediately agreed to resolution 242! It was the Palestinians and Arab nations who didn't want to negotiate.
The point wasn't to conquer more land, the point was to hold land as bargaining chips for better terms..

How it all turned out this way is beyond me, but we all know the settlements will be evacuated eventually..

With respect,
Eliad.

Originally posted by ntech
You want to break the treaty and and have unlimited trade across that border? Fine. But you will be the one to blame Eygpt when Israel butchers every last man woman and child in Gaza beause of the weapons you allowed over that border. Hope you're ready for the thousands of refugees coming your way too.

What's the difference...they are pretty much doing that already!

Israel does *not* run the middle east, regardless of their delusions of grandeur.

Egypt and Gaza are sovereign nations, not beholden to Israel in any way.

The 'agreements' made between US, Egypt, Israel is now null and void considering it was made with Israeli / US puppets.

About time something is being done about this outrage in Gaza...the US and the 'West' ought to be deeply ashamed of the hypocrisy displayed over supporting murderous barbarians in Israel and leaving the Gazans and Palestinians to their awful fate over the years.
Good for you Egypt.

reply to post by phatpackage


So many stories with so little facts..

Is that your plan?

Just so what you wish without backing anything up??

Not really the ATS way.....