Egypt to re-open Rafah border with Gaza

reply to post by dragonridr

So in short looking at these wars id say its hard to say that Israel was just beating up on poor Egypt wouldn't you say?

If closing a strait is an act of war then what is an entire blockade on Gaza??

This should be interesting...

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by dragonridr

 

So in short looking at these wars id say its hard to say that Israel was just beating up on poor Egypt wouldn't you say?

If closing a strait is an act of war then what is an entire blockade on Gaza??

This should be interesting...

Dont really see what that has to do with Egypt but ill play. Straight and simply a violation of international law. The minute they gave up Gaza they gave up the control over shipping. Now i see why they want to do it but again that is why the international community has been trying to get them to back down. If i were Israel i would stop the blockade its bad press and no major resources are brought into Gaza by sea anyway because they lack a port!! Unfortunately the Israelis are paranoid that everyones out to get them. But as the old saying goes Just because you're paranoid. Don't mean they're not trying to kill you.

reply to post by backinblack

Mate, most countries consider the entire blockade illegal so your point is really moot..

If I was trying to make the point that Israel is humane, yeah, it might have been moot... But I wasn't.

1) Israel doesn't "let in little" it lets in tons of supplies every day, something which takes up workers, time, and money, plus it supplies water and electricity.

2) It'd be better for all if Egypt took on those roles.

But there's no point in debating all this, as Egypt is never going to take on that role, it's never going to take on the burden, it's just going to make the problem worse.

Hopefully it all works out.

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by Eliad

1) Israel doesn't "let in little" it lets in tons of supplies every day, something which takes up workers, time, and money, plus it supplies water and electricity.

BS mate...No one but Israel says they let in anywhere near enough..
Quote me a source other than pro Israel sites...

And who gives a damn how much time it takes with workers?
Israel chose to install an illegal blockade..
NO ONE told them to or even agrees with it..

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Eliad

 

1) Israel doesn't "let in little" it lets in tons of supplies every day, something which takes up workers, time, and money, plus it supplies water and electricity.

BS mate...No one but Israel says they let in anywhere near enough..
Quote me a source other than pro Israel sites...

And who gives a damn how much time it takes with workers?
Israel chose to install an illegal blockade..
NO ONE told them to or even agrees with it..

If Israel was smart they would stop any supplies from coming through them it causes nothing but trouble. Let them get everything from sea or via egypt and pull out of the mess. In the long run i think both sides would be better off Israel for not having to be the bad guy and gaza because they can learn to be self reliant instead of depending on Israel for food water and electricity. Then hamas would have to spend money on infrastructure instead of missiles.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


The PDF you've provided is out of date..

It's funny how Gisha, in their Hebrew website, have an article from December about how the situation might have improved, but still not enough, which is mysteriously absent from their English website..

In it they say construction material and goods supply has doubled from 22% to 40% of (what they've determined as) the required daily amounts...

They also say Israel isn't filling the quota because they've only got a few crossings open, and those crossings can only handle so much, the other existing crossings are closed for security reasons..

This is the article- www.gisha.org...
Maybe you can google translate it.

Sadly I can't have the person I talked to come here on the forum with his credentials and tell you what I've heard, but I doubt anyone would believe him anyway, plus it seems like there's still shortage so I probably got the wrong idea..

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by backinblack

If closing a strait is an act of war then what is an entire blockade on Gaza??

An act of war.... By definition..

So you agree Egypt was the initiator in all these wars?

reply to post by backinblack


That's not the point. We all know it's not enough, but 900 tons of concrete a day is not little, 250 truck loads a day is not little, and while it might only be 40% it's still a lot.

Look I'm getting tired of repeating myself...

Israel does not let in "little", it just doesn't let in enough.

Little is 10kg, little is 2 trucks, it's not a crossing working at full capacity letting in 100s of tons of goods daily.

But this is really just a semantics thing, and we really shouldn't be arguing it..

As I said, it's hardly enough, and I'm glad Egypt is opening its crossing.

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by Eliad

So you agree Egypt was the initiator in all these wars?

No mate, guess again...

reply to post by Eliad

That's not the point. We all know it's not enough, but 900 tons of concrete a day is not little, 250 truck loads a day is not little, and while it might only be 40% it's still a lot.

Mate, more than 250 trucks a day pass along the Monash freeway near my home..

That is absolutely NOTHING.......

Israel are criminally starving the entire population...
That's not debatable and you even admit to it....

reply to post by backinblack


Then please provide sources (credible ones, not pro-palestinians).

Give me numbers of people who died of starvation in Gaza.

Unless you can provide and back your claims, they are, as you usually say yourself "BS"...

reply to post by ender_shadow

Is the UN credible to you??

The population of Gaza has existed under a hostile occupation for over f our
decades, and in recent years there has been a steady reduction of all imports and exports, slowly strangling
the private economy, leading towards the highest unemployment rates, and among the poorest
nutrition levels, in the developing world.

www.un.org...

reply to post by backinblack


My friend, these aren't the trucks you see from your window every day.. These are trucks loaded with tons of equipment, supplies and material...

More than 900 tons of cement each day according to the UN, that's not nothing.

It's not enough, sure, but it's not little by any measure.

It's not starving them *yet*, but it is making their lives unnecessarily and extremely difficult.

This is not a race issue, this is not a religion issue.. This seems to be the best way the Israeli government could think of to deal with Hamas..

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by Eliad

That's not the point. We all know it's not enough, but 900 tons of concrete a day is not little, 250 truck loads a day is not little, and while it might only be 40% it's still a lot.

My friend, 250 truck loads a day for 1.4 million people IS a pittance..
And that's assuming your 250 trucks is for Gaza alone..

reply to post by backinblack


It is. Again, the UN says it's 40% of the construction material they need. As for food, they're not being deprived of food, as far as I know, and it isn't like food is scarce and people fight for pieces of bread, but I'm assuming meat is extremely expensive and hard to get..

I don't know.. I've got to find a source in Gaza, find someone to talk to.. Maybe visit it somehow, hopefully not in uniform..

But neither of us truly know what goes on in Gaza.

Don't believe everything you hear..

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by Eliad


It's not 40%...It's 1/4 which is 25%...

The population of Gaza has existed under a hostile occupation for over f our
decades, and in recent years there has been a steady reduction of all imports and exports, slowly strangling
the private economy, leading towards the highest unemployment rates, and among the poorest
nutrition levels, in the developing world.

www.un.org...

They ARE starving......

reply to post by backinblack


It's 40%. Your document is 2 years old.

As for food- High prices and high unemployment lead to low nutrition, how much of it is the blockade's fault, how much of it is the war's fault, and how much of it is Hamas' fault is disputable, but it's clear that this situation can't stand...

Something's got to change, but Israel can't make that change on its own with Hamas arming itself to the teeth, waiting for the moment to strike..

Paranoid? Maybe, but in all fairness they've given us a lot of reasons to be paranoid, what do they expect?

Let's hope the reconciliation between Hamas and the PA, and the opening of the Rafah crossing will lead to good things.

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by backinblack


The same UN that has Libya and Syria in its "Human's Rights" council??

The same UN that employes Hamas people in UNRWA? don't expect me to accept everything they write at face value.

Despite that, I've looked over this report, and the word "starvation" is mentioned ONCE! and it NEVER says that children are starving, it says that there a problems with nutrition, and as Eliad says, this report is old...

Also, Gaza had a lot of agricultural areas that were left by Israel when it left in 2005, had Hamas not turned them into training grounds for attacking Israel, they would have been able to grow their food, and continue to do so... no one is stopping them...

Luckily for us, if Egypt does go through with opening the border in a formal manner, it will be the greatest gift they give Israel. There will disappear all of the excuses and whining by the "palestinians" that they are under siege.. let their arab "brothers" deal with them, and we'll see who is the more cruel... But BiB, I do not kid myself that I will change your mind, you have a clear agenda, and you cannot be confused with the facts... as we have seen in the past.

reply to post by ender_shadow

But BiB, I do not kid myself that I will change your mind, you have a clear agenda, and you cannot be confused with the facts... as we have seen in the past.

Yep, my clear agenda is to tell the truth..

Yours??