Iran's president and supreme leader in rift over minister's reinstatement

reply to post by Xcathdra

More of a supporter than what we find in some middle eastern countries. Iran would be better off if they spent more time building educational facilities and les time denouncing the Great Satan.

Hmmm, something tells me you don't know about Iranian academics. As for building educational facilities, everyone would be better off if they did that everywhere...instead of doing... "insert deflection".

Should we look at the GReen revolution as an example of how his style of opression works? Or is that the fault of the Ayatollah? Sure he can, since the Supreme Leader can hold him accountible for whatever he sees fit at any given point in time with no reason or cause.

Would you say the crackdown on protesters in the US or Denmark or Canada was the style of the oppressors - their leaders? I wouldn't say so, but I would say it would reflect badly on them if they didn't set the record straight - which they haven't by the way. Same deal in Iran.

Going back to that education thing.. The forum this is posted in, is not in a conspiracy forum.

That's great because I literally typed conspiracy site. You were saying something about edumucation?

You will eventually clue in on it.

I don't reside in Iran. I don't represent the Iranian regime. I don't represent religious or political or ethical backwardness.

And yes, earn it, just like My President has to do. Respect is earned, not demanded, nor expected.

Oh, see, I was under the impression that their lifetime of studies, achievements and eventually victory in elections was something to be respected at the least. Respect for their ways of governing is another story, but you'll find that you can't compare a president with the powers of a president to a president with the powers of a mayor.

Any person in a position of authority who thinks it works that way, has no concept of what respect actually is, and thats not just limited to the Iranian President or Supreme Ruler.

Most people in positions of authority(wide array of definitions available) would disagree

by the way, that was more sarcasm...

It's ridiculous edumucated people like yourself are void of speaking or typing before thinking.

As far as the comment about the Iranian Government not being responsible for peoples education, personally speaking, I think this is a problem and somewhat of a fallacy at the same time.

Read it well. I typed it IS their responsibility when it comes to PUBLIC SCHOOLING. However, I find this disturbing when it comes to education because we are talking about a theocratic government with a religious supreme leader.

What I am saying is, from this side oif the fence looking over to Irans, its impoissible for a person to learn anything, except for what they are told to learn by the Government?

Are you saying Iranians do not have access to internet? Are you saying Iranians cannot circumvent internet-blockades? Are you saying they don't have sattelite dishes?

Sure, the poor farmerboy who does not have access to these things will be easily indoctrinated by the government. This happens everywhere.

As I said, respect is earned and is a 2 way road. As an example, since you have knowledge of Iran, you could have taken the opprotunity to educate me, instead of critiquing my typing / spelling.

If respect is a two way road, then why don't you approach Iran with respect. Do you have any idea what turmoil the people have gone through, only to be subjected to a dictatorial government put in place by other countries? And to have ill-speaking puppets parrot all the propaganda only to demonize the people and the country some more? No you say? Well, then I don't think I NEED to show respect to you because you obviously haven't shown it.

Contray to popular belief, I have the utmost respect for the Persian culture. It is one of the oldest on the planet, dating back to around 2700 BC. Iran is unique in its own way by being part of EurAsia, while grouped in with the Middle East. Its unique in the sense they are Persian, and not Arab. Contrary to accepted beliefs, Chess actually origionated in Persia in the form we know now.

Yes, these are the things of cultural value. But culture takes a backseat to real issues. (sound like a student of political sciences)

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Ever ask an Iranian what it's like to live there?

Or do you listen only to ex-pats with outlandish stories?

Care to point out where I said anything about civilians? My comments ar directed at the President and Supreme Leader, and their actions. REspectfully, read my posts and understand what I type before opening up a mouth full of wise ass please.

Originally posted by Zamini
Hmmm, something tells me you don't know about Iranian academics. As for building educational facilities, everyone would be better off if they did that everywhere...instead of doing... "insert deflection".

The only deflection is your inability to engage in that particular argument.

Originally posted by Zamini
Would you say the crackdown on protesters in the US or Denmark or Canada was the style of the oppressors - their leaders? I wouldn't say so, but I would say it would reflect badly on them if they didn't set the record straight - which they haven't by the way. Same deal in Iran.

Iran rounded up protestors, beat them, had sham trials, found them guilty not of protesting, but insulting Islam or bringing shame on the country. I would not be so quick to compare protests. The President of the US is nowhere near my chain of command, and as such any orders he issues to "round" people up would not be carried out. We have an independant judicial, which is seperate from law enforcement and the executive.

The other difference is the protest you described in the West are allowed, where as in Iran, unless its a pro government / sanctioned event, protesting is not allowed and can get you killed, as we saw during the green revolution. Even wearing a green wrist band got one of thier soccer players in trouble - not because he spoke out verbally, or burned down party headquarters, but because he wore a green wrist band.

Huge differences in the way they are handedled by Police. Huge difference in how the Judicial deals with protestors. Huge difference in frreedoms allowed.

Not to mention a HUGE difference in the way media can cover those protests. Again it goes back to the education argument where only one side of the argument is allowed.

[

Originally posted by Zamini
That's great because I literally typed conspiracy site. You were saying something about edumucation?

Yup - This is not a conspiracy forum, its a Middle East news forum. Again, there is a difference.

Originally posted by Zamini
I don't reside in Iran. I don't represent the Iranian regime. I don't represent religious or political or ethical backwardness.

ooooook

[

Originally posted by Zamini
Oh, see, I was under the impression that their lifetime of studies, achievements and eventually victory in elections was something to be respected at the least. Respect for their ways of governing is another story, but you'll find that you can't compare a president with the powers of a president to a president with the powers of a mayor.

I didnt make the comparison between President. I stated respect is earned, not gien nor demanded, from either position. A life time of achievement tells me the person has the ability to stay focused and work towards their own personal goals. It doesnt mean they didnt lie, cheat or steal to get to where they are. And again, I judge a leader by just that, thier ability to lead. Not because they got straight A's in college.

Book smart and street smarts are 2 seperate beasts entirely. Its rare to find a person at that level with both.

Originally posted by Zamini
Most people in positions of authority(wide array of definitions available) would disagree

Coming from a position of public service, with first hand knwoledge and experience, I would disagree with you. Again, the term is called stereotyping, which is what you are doing with the response.

Originally posted by Zamini
It's ridiculous edumucated people like yourself are void of speaking or typing before thinking.

going for the mouth full of wise ass response I see

Originally posted by Zamini
Read it well. I typed it IS their responsibility when it comes to PUBLIC SCHOOLING. However, I find this disturbing when it comes to education because we are talking about a theocratic government with a religious supreme leader.

We agree here, and it goes back to what I was saying about education verses conditioning. When only 1 side of the coin is taught, its not education. The system does not allow for oipposing view points at all.

Originally posted by Zamini
Are you saying Iranians do not have access to internet? Are you saying Iranians cannot circumvent internet-blockades? Are you saying they don't have sattelite dishes?

What I am saying is if they get caught on a site thats not approved, or they get caught circumvnting the filters, it becomes an offense that could be punishable by death. When the government restricts what can and cannot be seen in country, and im refering to the basics, like news and opposition party coverage calling out the government on this reason or that reason.

Originally posted by Zamini
Sure, the poor farmerboy who does not have access to these things will be easily indoctrinated by the government. This happens everywhere.

Its not about having access to the internet or tv. Its about having access to those devices along with the ability to research, view, seek out information that is not allowed. Its about having the freedom to learn other view points, the ability to accept more than one idea.

Originally posted by Zamini
If respect is a two way road, then why don't you approach Iran with respect. Do you have any idea what turmoil the people have gone through, only to be subjected to a dictatorial government put in place by other countries? And to have ill-speaking puppets parrot all the propaganda only to demonize the people and the country some more? No you say? Well, then I don't think I NEED to show respect to you because you obviously haven't shown it.

My arguments are against the Government of Iran, not its people, and respect is earned and not just given. At no point have I demonized the citizens of Iran.

At any point in the history of any country, you will find the argument you just made, whether it be the Egyptians, the Romans, The British, The Sauds, The Americans, The Indians, etc etc etc.

I wasnt looking for respect or approval from anyone in this thread. I was looking for insight to the topic at hand, which is the internal issues of Iran.. I was looking for an educational debate form people who might be from there, or have experiences dealing with people from Iran and the Iranian Government.

That was derailed the moent the spelling police arrived on scene, failed to note sarcasm, and took me to task for something I did not do nor say.

Originally posted by Zamini
Yes, these are the things of cultural value. But culture takes a backseat to real issues. (sound like a student of political sciences)

The Persian culture goes back a few thousand years. I think thier culture, remebering who they were at one point, and the greatness they achieved, should be brought back up and applied to current events. Its like the country is lost, looking for its way back to where they belong.

The real issues are distracting them from that goal, and if the people of Iran can be reminded of their past, it might go a long way to helping them secure their future. To get a Government they deserve, one they put in place and who governs by the consent of the people.

Sometimes, when people get lost in the woods, instead of stopping where they are at, the continue forward, searching for the right way. Doing that only makes matters worse, and only in very rare occasions does the person find their way back out.

Sometimes, the best move is to stop, take stock of the situation, then backtrack to a point that looks familiar to get your bearing, and THEN continue to journey forward.

'Differences' emerge in top Iran leadership - Al-Jazeera

Serious differences have emerged within Iran's top leadership, media reports suggest, pitting Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president, against Aytollah Ali Khamenei, the country’s supreme leader.

Ahmadinejad has boycotted cabinet meetings since Heider Moslehi, the intelligence minister, was reinstated after he was forced out of the government.

Moslehi was restored to the powerful post by Khamenei after Ahmadinejad had forced him to resign on April 17.

Ahmadinejad's opponents, meanwhile, have seized the opportunity.

According to the Shargh newspaper, a group of 216 lawmakers, more than two-third of the 290 members in the Iranian parliament, have issued a letter to Ahmadinejad, urging him to call off his cabinet boycott for the good of the country.

"You are expected to follow the supreme leader," the lawmakers wrote.

On Friday, a hardline cleric used his nationally broadcast sermon to indirectly warn Ahmadinejad that he would be moving into dangerous territory by escalating his challenges to Khamenei.

"Obedience to the supreme leader is a religious obligation as well as a legal obligation, without any doubt," Ayatollah Ahmad Khatami said. He did not mention Ahmadinejad by name, but it was clear he was referring to the president.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I agree with most if not all your post up there...

The real issues are distracting them from that goal, and if the people of Iran can be reminded of their past, it might go a long way to helping them secure their future.

Who do you think is reminding Iranians of their past? Of their pre-Islamic days? Is it you? You're spot on when you say it goes a long way to help them secure a future. I've seen this "magic" work, but it all depends on the individual as well. But I'll agree, there are a lot of Iranian youths outside and inside of Iran who are disconnected from their roots. I've been searching and digging up history and have been sharing it with Iranians for that very purpose; to remind them they have a history, values, a culture, a faith all of their own. So they don't have to swallow the pretentious Islamic history of Iran(as if it's anything to admire) or the pretentious baloney that Christians try to shove down their throats(Iranians in refugee centers have a high chance to be drawn into church with all kinds of stories).

So to you readers from Iran and readers inside the regime, or for Muslim readers(you know you're there and if not I'm willing to take the long shot), this old paraphrase from a Sufi prince is for you:

"We took the marrow from the Quran and threw away the bones."

Go find out who said that.

reply to post by Zamini



Supreme Leader asks President to step down -
ATS Thread

I would comment but I cannot spell the supreme leader or the presidents name and im too d*mn lazy to copy and paste it. Pathetic!

Originally posted by Omicron2011
I would comment but I cannot spell the supreme leader or the presidents name and im too d*mn lazy to copy and paste it. Pathetic!

Aytollah Ali Khamenei

President Ahmadinejad's

Now, could you please grow up some.

reply to post by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Omicron2011
I would comment but I cannot spell the supreme leader or the presidents name and im too d*mn lazy to copy and paste it. Pathetic!

Aytollah Ali Khamenei

President Ahmadinejad's

Now, could you please grow up some.

You obviously have no sense of humor. It is not your place to tell other adults to grow up. Some people and their tiny minds, its a wonder you can get out of bed in the morning.

reply to post by Omicron2011


Uhm.. right.. Can we grow up please and maybe act your age. You guys bitched that I spelled their names wrong, so in order to avoid that, I refered to their titles, and this wasnt enough either.

Get over it and move on.

I never said anything to you! BTW you mispelled spelled. Have a good day!

Glad to see you were adult enough to correct your spelling mistake.

Yeha well, I extend professional courtesy to the Font / Spelling Police. As I said before, move on.

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
The govt structure over in Iran is all a smoke screen illusion anyways. The Ayatollah is the Supreme Leader, the others are fronts, an open charade. Their Cabinets, Ministers, Parliaments can pretend to represent the people all day but anything they rule on can be reversed with one paragraph written by the Supreme Leader, the Ayatollah behind the curtain.
Ahm-a-dina-jacket must have forgot to take his schitzo meds and started thinking he was a real President, hahahaha.

Yep, and many believe the Ayatollah is controlled by the military. I also believe the Iranians are part of the NWO smoke and mirrors agenda.

reply to post by wcitizen


I was under the Impression the Revolutionary Guards did answer directly to the Ayatollah. Is that not accurate?

reply to post by Xcathdra


It's amazing how you just bark out orders (Move on) to people you do not know. I believe you have control issues, so why dont you get the f*ck out of my rice bowl. Again, have a nice day!

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by wcitizen

 

I was under the Impression the Revolutionary Guards did answer directly to the Ayatollah. Is that not accurate?

Answering to the Ayatollah is one thing, controlling him is another.

reply to post by Omicron2011


Says the person who critiqued my spelling and attacked me for not using their names. And I am the one with control issues. How about this then, since I started the thread, and you are taking it off topic with your childish behavior, Ihave every right to tell you to move and and to quit making off topic posts.

Now, please, either contrinute to the thread and be on topc, or move on.

It really is that simple.

@ WB - I know President Ahmadinejad was part of the RG back in the day, and I have seen reports coming out about him meddeling in their affairs (the suggestions and undertones of the article was President Ahmadinejad was attempting to undermine the Ayatollahs authority with the RG).

REcently though the RG has criticised President Ahmadinejad. If you can clarfiy your statement for me I would appriciate it.

Are you saying the Ayatollah does not have the support of the RG?

reply to post by Xcathdra


You are very strange! *as I look down my nose at you and exit*