Michael Moore loves America

Michael Moore is out there raising serious issues that the mainstream media will not touch - at all - with the proverbial bargepoll.

How 'American' is a closed and restricted media working in almost every tangible way for the benefit of the most powerful and wealthy meant to be?

....and since when was asking the awkward questions meant to be 'Un-American'?

Whatever happened to the view that one might not like what people like MM have to say but one would go to the wall defending their right to say what they have to say?

The partisan to and from can be interesting and entertaining but somewhere in the heart of all this I think there's a danger that free speech and the right to question are being undermined.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Michael Moore is out there raising serious issues that the mainstream media will not touch - at all - with the proverbial bargepoll.

There's a reason for that. Mainstream media attempts to tell the truth. They don't usually imbibe in deceptive editing, leading questions whose answers are then edited into the answers to totally different questions, and outright lies.

Moore has never made a documentary. Every "movie" he has made is nothing but smoke and mirrors. He has never and will never have an ounce of credibility.

Michael Moore "hates" America and is a joke. Yeah, I said it

Yuor Right PinkySminky

I have a good explaination of that here

I used to be brainwashed by the right, but now that i'm opening my mind, micheal moore doesn't seem to be that far gone... The right wants to brand people un american and a danger to the country, when it's them... the extreme right has taken over the gop and the right wingers who aren't extremem feel they need to sympathize with them because their on the same side...
Just as braindead as the left imo.

Michael Moore hates America and is a joke. Yeah, I said it TOO!

Here he is in his own words saying how he hates America -
www.rightnation.us...

He probably hates the PNAC America that don't even know the are extremists because they sympathize with them and follow blindly just like the left.

Bush is far from perfect thats what my husband says (hes right wing) but he will still defend him because he is the lesser evil out of the two, and he won't even ask quesitons about the admin just because he's right wing.

Moore hates that about America, I've watched him speak without having newscasters interrupt and put their spin on it, he has talked freely www.democracynow.org and click on moore's talk. He brings up good points, he wants people to start asking more questions and stop being afraid of being called a traitor ect... He hates that about America, he should be more thorough though when he decides to make that comment, i'll click your link and see if I can find any detailed message.www.democracynow.org.../07/28/1335239



[edit on 29-7-2004 by TrueLies]

Michael Moore hates everything America stands for. If our current administration was of the calibre of the last he would have already disappeared mysteriously. He needs to go spend some time with his Muslim friends and find out just how much they respect him for his efforts.

Well of course Michael Moore loves America. It put him in a position to become RICH! The movie made $100 million domestically! He is trying to capitalize on the current strong division of politics in the country. Good for him, too bad I didn't think of it first

I honestly would have respect for him, and possibly believe some of you that are saying he is just trying to help America, if he didn't make stuff up for his movie. What stuff did he make up? Plenty. I'm sure you can find a number of websites that list off the inacuracies in his film. Just today I read this article:

The (Bloomington) Pantagraph newspaper in central Illinois has sent a letter to Moore and his production company, Lions Gate Entertainment Corp., asking Moore to apologize for using what the newspaper says was a doctored front page in the film, the paper reported Friday. It also is seeking compensatory damages of $1.

news.yahoo.com.../ap/20040730/ap_en_m o/people_michael_moore_1



Entertaining? Sure, his movie was entertaining. Documentary? Nope, documentaries don't contain fallacies and misleading information.

doc�u�men�ta�ry

Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

The American Heritage� Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Originally posted by sillinous
I honestly would have respect for him, and possibly believe some of you that are saying he is just trying to help America, if he didn't make stuff up for his movie. What stuff did he make up? Plenty. I'm sure you can find a number of websites that list off the inacuracies in his film. Just today I read this article:


The (Bloomington) Pantagraph newspaper in central Illinois has sent a letter to Moore and his production company, Lions Gate Entertainment Corp., asking Moore to apologize for using what the newspaper says was a doctored front page in the film, the paper reported Friday. It also is seeking compensatory damages of $1.

news.yahoo.com.../ap/20040730/ap_en_m o/people_michael_moore_1

Entertaining? Sure, his movie was entertaining. Documentary? Nope, documentaries don't contain fallacies and misleading information.


doc�u�men�ta�ry

Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

The American Heritage� Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

- So what? It's a film. Films rely on 'devices' to carry a point over, that's part of the art of them, they all do and it doesn't make the specific point untrue or all of the film untrue.

Is that the best 'fallacy' you could conjure? That's really not what I'd call strong.

I think most would find this alteration (if true) a mere stylising of the fact. It didn't prove anything, it wasn't used to do anything but graphically represent what many folks believed happened at the time. (Believe me he could have found an actual headline a damn sight stronger if he'd chosen, no wonder they're only after a single $1)

....and whilst that is one definition of a documentary it most certainly is not the only one. I'd love to know how an editorial line is ever to be removed from a human beings art.....

....which for all the bluster is what this film is. It's what all documentaries are. There's no such thing as editorial-free and utterly impartial.

This film is Moores view on the events and crying about that being how it is is just stupid IMO.

America has become a country in wish money making if you find the right loop will make you rich, I don't see Moore as an American hater but rather a sensationalist maker and if he can profit from it the better just like any other big business corporation in this country.

Heck if I am giving the opportunity I will profit on America too. But we the regular Joe's and Jane's can not even come close to that our government will not allowed us to do that to risky, the more money you have the lest dependable you become to our government.

When people in this country starts making their own decision without others interfering in it then we probably will not need a government at all.

This just a joke.

It doesn't matter what anybody says, good or bad about Michael Moore. Most americans have their minds made up and no argument one way or the other will change that. He's either a great patriot or a traitor. So, just accept this and avoid the frustration.

However, you have to ask why he is not being sued if the documentary he made is so libelous.

My opinion? I am a Republican, but having an open mind, I have seen that Bush wants to totally destroy our enemy wherever they reside, and he is making some tough decisions, decisions I think will cripple Kerry as they did to Carter during his administration.

I believe Bush has the attitude that the end will justify the means. His only mistake is his lack of preperation for this type of activity. You cannot rely on reservist to fight a major conflict on multiple fronts. And now he is saber rattling to Iran. No doubt we will have to confront Iran, and even Syria, however we need to be prepared to take action should a fight ensue.

Whoever our President is in Novemeber, we must stand behind them. This war on terror has just started and a nation divided cannot stand.

So where do I stand? I am voting for ......

Of course he loves America. There are IHOP's on every corner to feed his big fat pie hole.

We need to stress something here. You have the right to free speech. You don't have the right to make people listen to you.

People have the right to shout you down. Sorry liberals.

Originally posted by ArcAngel
However, you have to ask why he is not being sued if the documentary he made is so libelous.

actually he is being sued. I read a few suits against him today. It was in the local newspaper, not online, so I don't have a link for you. Google around and perhaps you'll find it.

At one point in F911 MM shows newspaper headline that says Gore won. The newspaper says that never happened. Moore made a
fake headline with their name on it and put it in the film. They are suing.

There is a place in the movie that shows a flaged drapped coffin and I think the Arlington funeral (not sure about the funeral). The family of the deceased soldier is VERY upset and has secured a lawyer. I don't know if they want 'damages' or if they want that scene deleted from ALL copies of that movie.

There were other stories of people not happy being used in the mockumentary, but they won't bring a suit, at least 'not yet'.
I'm sure as time goes on, there will be more people securing lawyers.

I'm sure nobody likes to be used in such a twisted way in propaganda.

[edit on 7/31/2004 by FlyersFan]

[edit on 7/31/2004 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by ArcAngel
However, you have to ask why he is not being sued if the documentary he made is so libelous.

actually he is being sued. I read a few suits against him today. It was in the local newspaper, not online, so I don't have a link for you. Google around and perhaps you'll find it.

What local newspaper was that? The Wilmington National Socialist Review? Michael Moore is a hot news item. If he is being sued, the story will be all over the internet. Why don't you Google around and produce some evidence that a few lawsuits have been filed against Moore?

At one point in F911 MM shows newspaper headline that says Gore won. The newspaper says that never happened. Moore made a
fake headline with their name on it and put it in the film. They are suing.

Why don't you stop making statements that are not true? I already corrected you on this on another thread. The newspaper wrote a letter to Moore requesting a correction and $1 in damages. That is not a lawsuit.

There is a place in the movie that shows a flaged drapped coffin and I think the Arlington funeral (not sure about the funeral). The family of the deceased soldier is VERY upset and has secured a lawyer. I don't know if they want 'damages' or if they want that scene deleted from ALL copies of that movie.

I am really getting tired of you making unsourced allegations. Either produce some links to corroborate these statements or admit that you are making things up.

There were other stories of people not happy being used in the mockumentary, but they won't bring a suit, at least 'not yet'.
I'm sure as time goes on, there will be more people securing lawyers.

So there were other stories? Where were there other stories? Links please. Why are you sure that there will be more people securing lawyers?

I'm sure nobody likes to be used in such a twisted way in propaganda.

I'm sure that you do not know what you are talking about.

DonGuillermo I have to give it to you, you really can brake down a thread and turned into pieces

I love it, but rather prefer to just ignore some of the comments because I know they are false and just go with the flow, I am glad we have members like you in ATS.

He promotes discussion about important political issues.

If you look back at some of the fierce political rancor that shook this nation in its early days, you can get a feel for the fact that such rabid partisanship is as American as apple pie, knock it though I may. I prefer that people not feel compelled to toe the party line on every freakin' issue, but that's just me (and probably un-American of me).

Check out the satires, caricatures and tracts floating around in the early days of the nation and you will see the work of Moore's predecessors. My favorite cartoon from those days was a Federalist offering: "Mad Tom in a Rage", featuring "Mad Tom" trying to pull down "the Republic" with the help of his "Old Friend" the Devil and a bottle of brandy. Doonesbury eat your heart out.

There have never been "good old days" of civility. The Senate has record of at least one sound caning in addition to punches and scuffles, and I suspect others went unreported. So knocking Moore for being irreverent is a non-starter.

Compared to times past, modern Americans are positively catatonic about politics. It's about time someone rattled a few windows, if you ask me.

Now, people who didn't even know who Dick Cheney is** are starting to take an active interest in just who the hell is running this country. I am unable to see how this is bad.

Disagree with Moore? Great! Get out whatever version of the truth you prefer and fight for those hearts and minds. At least someone has the guts to challenge the powers that be.

I really couldn't care less what Michael Moore's personal opinions are about anything, or for that matter, whether or not F9/11 is actually "true". To me, the more important truth is that people who should be asking questions are finally asking questions. Maybe they will find some answers, too.

Michael Moore is a filmmaker and entertainer, and very good at what he does, but the day I start looking to entertainers for political advice or honest-to-God truths will be the day I tear up my voter registration card.

So enjoy the party and the illusion that we really control our government, and let those evil partisans get your goat, because that's what you gotta love about America!


**My favorite political bumper sticker to date:

WWDCS
What Would Dick Cheney Say?

I respect Michael Moore very much for what he is doing. He may be inaccurate in some areas, but that does not make his movies a thread of lies. Yes, he does some editing. All documentary makers do some editing - so do journalists. Anybody who presents a story, either on film or in writing, selects some facts over others, gives them an order of priority, and presents them in a certain way to give the story coherence. No one is objective, and a story will reflect the author's bias.

Of course, in Michael Moore's case, he uses exaggeration to drive his point home. That's what infuriates people from the right and causes them to call him a liar. Don't people like Rush Limbaugh or even the editorialists on Fox news ever exaggerate when they present John Kerry as a flip-flopper or Michael Moore as an America hater?

What they're doing is spinning some facts a certain way. Michael Moore is doing the same. Bottom line is, he encourages us to THINK FOR OURSELVES and understand that all is not what it seems.

I've read somewhere else on ATS that it takes only "one lie" or "one misleading element" in the movie to discredit Michael Moore. Yet the same people say that you can't accuse Bush of misleading the American people into war, because he really believed at the time that Iraq had WMDs...

Isn't that like saying that the Democrats need 60 percent of the vote to win the White House, but the Republicans need only 40 percent?

What's more... A nation where people who criticize the government and its policy abroad are labelled "un-American" is a fragile nation indeed.

Originally posted by ArcAngel
It doesn't matter what anybody says, good or bad about Michael Moore. Most americans have their minds made up and no argument one way or the other will change that. He's either a great patriot or a traitor. So, just accept this and avoid the frustration.

I must agree with the statement above

I don't believe it's about him being pariotic or not, and that the real motive is he is a film maker, MONEY is the real reason for this film. I believe he is using this split to his gain. I have no desire to watch his film, but that is me.

I found his website and left him a message, that what he left outside the building when he was given his film award was his MANNERS, rude to those who wanted to present him with an award for the film he did. Instead he chose to declare shame on George Bush. Using the Pope was a bad call and one the Pope has to deal with, child molestation.
During WWII Germany using death camps were killing thousands of people, if we allow people to do those same acts then we are as much guilty as those who do them.

Kuwait, was invaded, it's people were raped, killed and robbed, that those who were fleeing on the Highway of death are shown for what they were, as Ali Baba and his Forty thieves invaded that Nation.

WMD as commander in Chief any President depends on his Intel, and I have only ONE concern being the CIA and how they trained Osama and while bitting the A## of Russia's it was OK. But with the decline of threat between Russia and the US the CIA like Vietnam suddenly we have a new threat and the CIA is now being feed Billions of $$ to beef up security, just like many believe Pearl Harbor did to anger us into a War.

Mr. Moore has no manners in my mind, if he did then he would show the destruction done by Saddam. A documentary is suppose to be unbiased and allow the viewer the right to make the call on what is SHAME.

Michael

[edit on 1-8-2004 by Ark-Angel]

I can see what Moore is trying to do, or trying to show but he's misguided. Why in "Bowling for Columbine" was he giving Charlton Heston a hard time about guns when he just showed how other countries like Canada have millions of guns with few murders? It doesnt' make sense. If guns aren't the problem in Canada, why are they the problem here in his eyes? He has some good points but he's not addressing the real issues or he has no clue what they are. I would have loved to have answered the questions he was asking. The gun thing I just mentioned, I mentioned as an example. He may have good intentions but he's ignorant about how he's applying them, he's wrong in many incedents as with his approach and where's he's pointing the finger. Just like I could be wrong about what I just wrote here and sorry if I am, but I'm not making a movie about it and trying to get the world to buy it.