Am I wrong?

I have a younger brother that has been living with my wife and I. This is the third time I have given him someplace to stay after a relationship he was in fell apart, usually very dramatically. I am 48, he is 37 and has a 13 yr. daughter, which my 70 year old mother is now raising after his last relationship imploded. He wouldn't be in my home now if it hadn't been for his daughter begging me to give him someplace to stay.

My wife and I both have children (each a daughter) from a previous marriage. Both are grown with families. Mine lives about 40 miles away and my wife’s lives in our town. My wife’s daughter is going through a nasty divorce which should be settled in May. Her soon to be ex husband has moved out of the house but still lives here in town.

My brother does this thing when he falls out of a relationship, he's done it for years. As soon as he jumps out of a relationship he immediately finds another one to replace it with. In 2010 he was paling around with a girl. She is in the army so she was deployed around Christmas time. He then started bad mouthing my step daughter husband, wanting to "kick his ass" so on and so forth. I told him around Christmas to keep his nose out of it and to leave my step daughter alone, she didn't need the stress and headache of someone butting into her problems, that she was handling it fine by herself. He pretty much did what I asked.

So, New Years Eve comes along and we all get together to celebrate. Earlier in the night I had warned my brother to lay off the booze and shut up about the soon to be ex-husband. He goes drunk on me and they start getting cozy with each other as the night progresses. Sitting with each other in chairs, whispering to each other, hiding under blankets and giggling. Teenager kind of stuff. It pissed me off so I got in his face and told him to shut this crap up and go to bed. By this time my stepdaughter was in his face as well. I even think the two of them kissed in the kitchen earlier but I didn't actually see it, just heard kissing sounds which really could have been anything.

The next day I laid it on him hard about the drinking and nosing into her business and he apologized for his behavior and said he would set it right. Since then he has stopped smoking, drinking and is lovin' on some local church. All good things, don't get me wrong. But, he is still spending a lot of his free time with my stepdaughter and her two young boys. He is in full blown rescue mode, just as he was when he met his current wife ( yes, he is still married ) and her two girls. I have gotten so angry about this that I kicked him out last weekend. He really wasn't staying here much anyway. I cant stand to speak to him now.

All of our relationships have changed because of this. My wife and her daughter are cold to each other now and I cant stand to be around my stepdaughter or my brother. When confronted about it by my wife, my stepdaughter levels an avalanche of hate at her and accused her of meddling and that there was nothing wrong with them coupling and it was none of her business. The stepdaughter seems to be promoting this whatever it is they are doing. My brother just kind of shrugs his shoulders and won't consider it wrong. Many members of our respective families are asking us questions about what is happening between them and we don't have any good answers. All of them look upon it with a disapproving eye.

Am I wrong about this being inappropriate? I mean, is my brother admittedly condoning and pursuing a more intimate relationship with my stepdaughter right or wrong? He is messing with the lives of our grandchildren in this process. A divorce is something that a mother and her children must be go through and experience with as little outside interference as possible so that they can grow from the experience and learn from it.

Forgiveness is divine my friend...

You and you're wife made declarations and promises to each other . Everyone else is an outsider . You're too nice . I would have tossed him a long time ago . Discuss it with your wife . If her married daughter wants to dick a married man they are both old enough to do it but being outsiders from your marriage let it have no effect on the relationship between your wife and yourself . Similar situation in my family several years ago so i blew a gasket and told everyone else to go to hell . Don't be too overtly critical of your wifes daughter but it takes two to tango and i wouldn't buy the bs that it's all her soon to be ex-husbands fault .

reply to post by Akragon


Oh, I will someday forgive this of him but I wont forget it. After all I have done for this guy and I ask of him one favor of significance and he brushes it off like so much lint, forgetting this wont happen. And his forgiveness will come as a reward for admitting he was wrong about this.

There are consequences for behavior, something a lot of people today don't give a damn about.

I am not asking anyone to nod their head with me on this just so I can justify my anger at them, the damage is done and is continuing. I just want to bounce it off of people to get a sense of whether or not I'm the problem here, instead of them.

reply to post by bandito


There is solidarity between my wife and I and this isn't affecting our relationship. If anything it is waking us up to what her daughter and my brother are really like, not the not the apparent fantasy of them we have had. My wife is very, very hurt and I am very angry over it but we both agree that for us anyway, this is wrong...there is no religious morality behind how we feel, just right and wrong. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

reply to post by Lost_Mind

Although you say one day you will forgive, I highly doubt you will, that is of course unless you realize your own fault for passing judgement upon your brother and your wife's daughter. It is obvious you frown upon thier behavior and Im not going to fault you for that.

For this reason If I was you and I was in your situation I dont think words would cut it, Im afraid the situation and all the circumstances involved would lead me to have to beat him down. So for that Id say atleast you have done well from refraining to do so.

Best of luck with your problem/brother

reply to post by 5StarOracle


I really think that all of this would have been avoided if he had been able to have shown us a modicum of respect and honored our request. I knew this was going to happen ahead of time and attempted to thwart it. I really think I have been duped by my own sense of caring in this instance. Speaking of judgement, I think mine was clouded by a familial sense of doing the "right" thing. In retrospect, the right thing in this would have been to send him on his way this time, because we really think we own some of the responsibility here by enabling him to be this way. I should have turned him away the first time he repeated this behavior. We wouldn't be where we are now....

Originally posted by Lost_Mind
reply to post by Akragon

 

Oh, I will someday forgive this of him but I wont forget it. After all I have done for this guy and I ask of him one favor of significance and he brushes it off like so much lint, forgetting this wont happen. And his forgiveness will come as a reward for admitting he was wrong about this.

There are consequences for behavior, something a lot of people today don't give a damn about.

I am not asking anyone to nod their head with me on this just so I can justify my anger at them, the damage is done and is continuing. I just want to bounce it off of people to get a sense of whether or not I'm the problem here, instead of them.

The more you push your disagreements the more you push him away... Why not just accept whatever he did and move on... You're only hurting yourself.

reply to post by Akragon


Good advice. Once he is completely out of my house I can.

Originally posted by Lost_Mind
reply to post by Akragon

 

Good advice. Once he is completely out of my house I can.

Ahh...but while he is in your house you have a greater opportunity for growth...

Give him a hug and sit him down. Discuss things like brothers that love and respect each other... Don't bring your past feelings into the discussion either... just listen and accept... then move on.

Perhaps you'll see each other on a different level... you may not even want him to leave *shrug* who knows man

Love can break down any wall my friend

take the chance

His behaviour lacks class and integrity. It is your house and as such, your decision to make. I agree with you and the frustration you feel.

I think you are right that yes his actions were inappropiate. But I think you are wrong in trying to tell both your brother and maybe even your stepdaughter what to do and how and whom to live thier lives with. You might be pushing your step daughter away with this. (you know how it is with children you tell them to do something they want to do the opposite) Will you still help him out or is he cut off from you??

reply to post by Akragon


Been there done that, for lack of a better cliche'. And all he has in my house are some possessions. He doesn't physically live here now.

I was the only family member that went to bat for him when he decided to marry the woman he just left. I have another brother who adamantly wanted him to stay away from this woman and I told him that it was little brothers decision to make, not ours. That even if marrying this woman was a mistake for him, he needed to experience it and hopefully learn from it. Now that brother doesn't speak to either one of us. You see, familial dynamics aren't so cut and dry, or black and white, per se. In the real world, love does not conquer all. Love in this case allowed me to be used or taken advantage of in a manner I never would have thought he would have been capable of. I enabled him.

reply to post by American-philosopher


I have considered that and it is definitely a possibility. And I really don't think that when this was first starting in December that I was out of place by asking my brother before any of this started to back off. Yeah, now, four months later after all of my pleading was ignored, I come across as an overbearing older brother and meddling in their affairs. When I first approached him about this, him alone, they had no affairs to meddle in. They had not spoken to each other for 15 years before this. They never asked about each other or even acknowledged each others existence.

As of right now I cant approach him without becoming angry so we haven't spoke with each other on a significant level in 2 weeks. Besides, I've had the heart to heart with him twice now and it didn't make a dent.

reply to post by Lost_Mind


Alright. Think about where your brother is in his life right now. And we don;t have to excuse any actions or anything that is wrong. But from what you have said it seems that he is not in a good place and may be looking for a friend,companionship, or someone to connect with. You said I think if I amnot mistaken that he has come to you before when needs help maybe he has know one else to go to when he does need someone. Maybe he is just reaching out for someone and stepdaughter was the closest person and was receptive for whatever reason.

Again I am not trying to defend his actions.

reply to post by American-philosopher


I think that component may exist, but what I don't get is that before this, he had me and my wife 100% Or more...we've never judged him or criticized him for anything he had ever done. Of course between ourselves we saw some of the obvious mistakes he has made, but we kept that discussion amongst ourselves unless he broached the subject. He absolutely traded us for his step-niece once I approached him about his advances toward her. Like we never mattered...

And I have another question, I must have been sleeping when these lines in family were eroded or erased but at some point in the near past wasn't it a bit taboo to make more than a friendship out of a family member? I mean she isn't blood family but by marriage family nonetheless. Are step children fair game for your siblings now? I must have missed some memo or something... if this isn't to be frowned upon where does it stop? I mean is it cool for him to chase after my daughter now because she is adopted? I never would have thought about pursuing one of my brothers or sister-in-laws children as a potential mate or lover..never.

reply to post by Lost_Mind


No doubt yea that should be frowned upon but there are some many things that go on currently in our world that should be frowned upon. I don;t know maybe he is trying to justify it by saying it isn;t blood. I don;t know. So what about the situation irks you the most the fact that he blantly defied you and didn;t listen to you. Or that he is carrying on with family?

reply to post by American-philosopher


For me, what makes me angry is his not granting me this one request I made of him, after all we have done for him over the last 5 or so years. The rest of it would have been moot if he could have brought himself to honor this request.

For my wife, it is the meddling into her daughters affairs and by proxy messing with the grandkids heads during this divorce. I mean, it got so bad that when the grandkids would come over for a visit with us all they would do is ask about where my brother was, when he was going to be home. The kids are getting more attention from him than they are their own father now and they are more focused on him. Since he was living here, he was the bright white light for them when they visit. That really hurt my wife a lot. She is also upset over his not adhering to what we think is a family boundary that should be honored.

It just didn't have to happen...