Calling all non-Catholic Chirstians to help me out here

Originally posted by ShellyBoo
reply to post by drew1749

 

Sorry, should have looked better before I posted...Now I must ask, you feel that bad for that long over human error??

Im still not following you.

You can go anytime you want. You "should" (Might be have to.) go once a year.

It's just up to you.

Originally posted by drew1749
I was never told that by a Priest. Who told you they tell people that?

I'm curious what they do tell you. What is the true purpose of asking a priest for forgiveness?

If a Murderer was Baptized in the Catholic Church (Or wanted to be Baptized for that matter) and made confession and was serious he would be forgiven. You just have to ask. Also if the Murderer was never found Guilty the Priest can't tell anyone. If he does then the Priest is sinning himself.

God said ask and you shall recieve. He didn't say ask one of my earthly representatives. The murderer needs to come to God and let Him in his life. If he doesn't do this, it doesn't matter what people around him think of his position. I was under the impression that the priest was not allowed to tell anyone what goes on in confession.

I believe it is said that if you don't know you are sinning then you are already forgiven. But I'm not sure if that is how it works.

For example the older religions like the Indians. Before they were exposed to Christianity or the Jewish faith they really couldnt be blamed for not believing. Because they didnt know. Right?

As to the purpose of confession, "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28

We know this is a sin but do you ever confess when you've lusted after a woman, perhaps even an attendee of the church? You know that's a sin, so would you need to confess?

Click here for more information.

I have always had a healthy disregard for any man who turns wearing either a frock or some ridiculous religious garb into an act of piousness. Fancy dress for most doesn't add an iota of spirituality.

I am sorry I had to s'n-word' when I read the post because I couldn't help remembering the priests selling idiots seats in heaven for when thy died - some sort of indulgences or dispensations a couple of hundred years ago. I mean, people actually fell for it and holy mother church made yet another financial scam into a financial hit.

I have always thought confession self defeating, my friend who was catholic and use to every week pop into the confessional, confess, get the regular X number Hail Mary's and there she was the next week in fact every week.

reply to post by drew1749


My original post was not aiming at how many times you "sin", and how many times you "confess" The point I was trying to make was that if you can't forgive yourself over human error sins(which is part of learning life) and the sin you are confessing you can't feel better about, must be big enough that you should consider getting a lawyer or other forms of help. Forgiveness should come easy upon yourself if the sin was small...I am a firm believer in Karma, and Karma isn't waiting for a confession, its waiting for an opportunity to teach a lesson, it could happen now, in 10yrs, anytime..I find everytime I mess up in life, I end up having bad luck in the long run, but I accept it, learn from it, and do it differently the next time

As only God can truly forgive all sin, my confession is before Him.

Similarly, any agency that purports to mediate between God and man, is in direct defiance to the word of God (1 Timothy 2:5).

reply to post by Artanis667

God said ask and you shall recieve. He didn't say ask one of my earthly representatives. The murderer needs to come to God and let Him in his life. If he doesn't do this, it doesn't matter what people around him think of his position. I was under the impression that the priest was not allowed to tell anyone what goes on in confession.

The Priest isn't allowed to tell anyone. Where did I say he was?

Also having help is always a good thing.

As to the purpose of confession, "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28 We know this is a sin but do you ever confess when you've lusted after a woman, perhaps even an attendee of the church? You know that's a sin, so would you need to confess?

Yes you are supposed to confess this. There are plenty of other things that you can list that many wouldn't want to confess that are needed to be confessed.

I.E Having fun with........you get my point.

reply to post by Lynda101

I have always thought confession self defeating, my friend who was catholic and use to every week pop into the confessional, confess, get the regular X number Hail Mary's and there she was the next week in fact every week.

...? Plenty of good things can be bad if used too much.

Do you understand?

Originally posted by chr0naut
As only God can truly forgive all sin, my confession is before Him.

Similarly, any agency that purports to mediate between God and man, is in direct defiance to the word of God (1 Timothy 2:5).

God is forgiving your sin. Through the Priest. I guess it is understandable that you don't understand all the ummm what's the word? Inner-Workings and stuff.

Originally posted by Shadowalker
Pedosalvation...... Well many cases have come up but the catlicks have lots of other non-pedo issues. So priests on nuns and priests on priests and nuns on nuns dont matter?

Say your yada yada and move on feeling good. A man came between you and God. Deal. Good Luck friend.

You aren't a friend of mine.

Sorry bud. Maybe try being civil instead of trolling. Huh? I like that idea.

Get out if all you want to do is troll. I understand someone having questions but you seem pretty sure of yourself buddy.

As far as I know Christians other than the Catholic believe that Jesus is the mediator of prayer and forgiveness for sins. The church ministers by their various titles are simply there to instruct, console and run the everyday needs of the church. Over the years there have been many discussions, and arguments over this question, and reason for division. The disagreement is this. There is only one father- He who is in heaven(GOD) no one can go to the father except thru Jesus, and no only is capable of forgivening sin except (GOD). Therefore their conclusion is that confession to mortal men is of no value.

Originally posted by drew1749
The Priest isn't allowed to tell anyone. Where did I say he was?

Also having help is always a good thing.

You had said that if the murderer wasn't found guilty, then the priest wouldn't be able to tell anyone. But now that I look at it again I see you probably ment the priest couldn't tell anyone the man was innocent.

I agree, having help is a good thing. But how much help can a priest offer over your family, or most importantly, God? Ask God for help, sometimes it seems people are discouraged by this paradigm to speak to God, almost believing their words hold no weight. To where a priest's words are more important to God and yours are lost on the way. Let no one stop you from having your close, personal relationship with God.

Yes you are supposed to confess this. There are plenty of other things that you can list that many wouldn't want to confess that are needed to be confessed.

I dont see how it would be feasible to remember every time during the week you looked at and wanted a beautiful woman. Or every time you say or think something negitive or mean about someone. You'd be running around with a list, contantly writing down all your sins.

What I want to get at is, how important is confession? Do you believe someone who loves Jesus and the Father, who has never been inside a priest's confesssion block, would ever be forgiven for anything? That's my point, it is either absolutely necessary you be forgiven for every known (not just remembered) sin or it's really not necessary at all. Other than to recieve what may or may not be good advice.

Make no mistake, verbally confessing to God lifts a great weight off you. Doesn't have to be verbal but it can solidify the experience for the person confessing.

I.E Having fun with........you get my point.

reply to post by drew1749


The basic truth is that the Catholic Church, as it stands today (not just talking historically) is breaking its own laws (as indicated in 1 Timothy 2:5) in placing itself as mediator between God and ourselves.

It is not only the Catholic Church but many denominations.

Also, when Jesus spoke out against the Pharisees, he was quite clear about where they had transgressed. The Pharisees no longer exist (essentially) and yet the words of Jesus stand. You should be aware that ALL who fit the specific details about which Jesus spoke are indicated, not just the particular historical group. This could even be your favourite ecclesiastical group or even yourself.

Someone who purports to follow Christ and be conformed to his image, should at least take his words to heart.

I am a very Catholic leaning Protestant, who frequently attends Mass, though I remain a reasonably devout Methodist. If the Anglican church had a non-Episcopalian option in the US, I'd probably go Anglican, because they're the ones I, theologically, most closely identify with, but barring that, it will either be Methodist or Catholic.

Confession is one of the points that I take issue with (the only other major one is Mariology -- heck, I even participated in the "Veneration of the Cross" ritual at Mass last Friday ) because I agree, wholeheartedly, with Luther's objection to the insulating layer that had developed between man and God -- the priesthood. I have nothing against praying the Rosary or attending Stations, because of the value to me, beyond the indulgence, but confession rankles up my "Solo Christo" belief -- Christ, as both fully man and fully God, is the only mediator that there can be between man and God.

I agree that there is both value and scriptural support for confession to others (in the Methodist church, we call that "accountability" ) but forgiveness comes from God to you through Christ -- no Father Confessor is necessary.

Whenever I consider conversion to Catholicism, I seem to just keep bumping my head against things that violate the Five Solas, but I'm moving shortly to a town that has a young, but very traditional priest (he reinstated Latin Mass ) so I think I'll take him out to lunch a few times and give him a chance to make his case.

Originally posted by lektrofellon
reply to post by drew1749

 

You take comfort from a ordinary man in a white collar who may be a paedophile , forgiving you?

edit on 24/4/11 by lektrofellon because: (no reason given)

Man, how boring and predictable you people are! As the OP has already said, "not a paedophile"... Check out my signature.
Sports coaches, teachers, step-fathers (and regrettably) fathers and in New Zealand, ambulance officers are much more provably likely to be paedophiles, than priests are.
The tiny handful of priests who have even been accused (fewer than 1% actually) are a positive gift to those who are afraid of having to confront their own needs and the claims of Christianity.
When it comes to the average man committing a sexual assault against a woman or a little girl, you're all very eager to point out quite emotionally, that an accusation doesn't make someone guilty.
When it comes to a priest, especially when the allegation involves boys (who as all men know and claim) are much more important than girls or women, any accusation is as good as proven!
Grow up!
Vicky

reply to post by drew1749


I guess some people just feel guilty, and that's enough for people to assess and think about their "sins" - Whatever they may be. That's how i manage in the Church of Atheism.

It don't think a preist is going to rid you of your guilt. If you've done something wrong, make it up to the person you wronged instead of asking for instant forgiveness from some preist or God. Forgiveness is forgiving oneself as well as having others forgive you.

"sins" or "wrongs" are different from religion to religion. THat's because people can't prove God exists so they end up attributing DIFFERENT rules and regulations to such a being.

Sins are subjective.

reply to post by chr0naut


"Moderate" Christians break the rules of God all the time. They are inconsistent with their beliefs.

They leave the fundamental ideology out, they cherry pick. It shows they are willing to drop the rules and regulations of God because they disagree with God, probably for fear of social scrutiny.

If, in defense, they state "the bible was "written by man at the time", then ask why they believe in such nonsense if they are willing to drop PART of the nonsense.

reply to post by drew1749


I think you misunderstood my point. The sinning doesn't stop because of confession. My friend happily carried on because she had effectively been taught to say what she had done each week, ask forgiveness then merrily go on her way to repeat exactly the same things each and every week for the rest of her life, because the Priest cleared the slate each week.That slate clearing doesn't provide the Eurika Moment which stops one sinning, it merely provides a comfy habit she has had for all the years we have been friends and we giggle about it.

Hyperthetically this comfort zone leaves people open to experiences such as this:

Man goes into confessional box "Forgive me Father for I have sinned. I beat up my wife". " You know its wrong X Hail Mary's son, go in peace".

Next week and each week following on for years he's back with his usual, ........"Forgive me Father for I have sinned, I beat up my wife. Except this particular week he adds, "Oh! and she has died." "You know it's wrong, X hail Mary's my son, go in peace. my lips are sealed".

The point is, as he was forgiven by God each week he didn't need to stop till the inevitable happened. His continual violence was allowed because confession had taken away and forgiven his serious wrong doing, so he thought he had either got away with beating his wife or God was OK with it, till she died.

I hope now I have explained why I view the catholic ritual of confession with scepticism as to the real good it does for the people.

Originally posted by Lynda101


Man goes into confessional box "Forgive me Father for I have sinned. I beat up my wife". " You know its wrong X Hail Mary's son, go in peace".

Next week and each week following on for years he's back with his usual, ........"Forgive me Father for I have sinned, I beat up my wife. Except this particular week he adds, "Oh! and she has died." "You know it's wrong, X hail Mary's my son, go in peace. my lips are sealed".

The point is, as he was forgiven by God each week he didn't need to stop till the inevitable happened. His continual violence was allowed because confession had taken away and forgiven his serious wrong doing, so he thought he had either got away with beating his wife or God was OK with it, till she died.

I hope now I have explained why I view the catholic ritual of confession with scepticism as to the real good it does for the people.

Now as I am not Catholic, I could be wrong, and if I am I hope someone who is will correct me, but AFAIK it doesn't work that way!
If a man came every week and confessed to beating his wife, the priest wouldn't just let him off with X Hail Marys, buit would require a 'purpose of amendment' (am I right?) and would ask him to at the very least, get counselling!
I am Protestant, I have never confessed to a priest, like ADJensen, I am very attracted to the idea of converting. Mariolatry is my sticking point - I feel quite attracted to the idea of auricular confession! I think it must be very helpful to confess to a particular besetting issue, and get advice and a bit of discipline!
Vicky
PS Lynda, how would your story be any different if the man had simply got down on his benders and prayed privately? He'd have an even better chance of feeling justified, with no human being holding him accountable.

The facility for confession is available within the Anglican church. If an individual feels the need to confess to an intercessor, they can make the request. It is explained that the intercessor cannot offer absolution, only support the confessee in prayer.

Personally, I think Catholic confession through an intermediary is a system that ministers to and perhaps satisfies the needs of the non Christian church goer who does not have a relationship with God.