Weight loss: the futility of the exercise

Originally posted by byteshertz
It wouldnt supprise me if running etc didnt make you lose weight but id be stunned if they said it didnt burn fat.

Actually, the act of running burns, primarily, glucose, not fat. You burn more fat when you're sleeping.

Stop looking at studies from the 50's to the 90's. They are biased in favor of carbohydrates (sugar) and are almost all paid for by food companies.

Very simply, the body will not accumulate fat unless it has insulin in the bloodstream. When the body releases insulin into the bloodstream it puts all available resources (calories) into creating bodyfat. It doesn't matter if those calories come from protien, fat or carbohydrate.

When the body does not release insulin into the bloodstream it uses calories for energy, rebuilding muscle and to refill glycogen stores. The body does not save calories to fat unless there is insulin present.

Carbs create fat because they promote an insulin response.. Protein and fat do not create fat unless there is an insulin response.

Most of the rest about diet is manure and gunsmoke.

Look into recent (within the last 2 years) studies that specifically look at the effects of sugar on the diet and on the body. It is a poison in excess and damages the body. That is why the body uses insulin to remove it from the bloodstream as quickly as it can.

You can argue all day and hang on to the BS that the food industry brainwashed us with about carbs (sugar) being the most important thing to eat but there is no such thing as an essential carb.

Stick with protiens, fats, green vegetables and whole fruits (sparingly). Stay away from Beer, sweet wines, fruit juices, sugar, starches and yes, even grains. You will lose weight.

Stay away from milk too. Too much pharmacological intervention by the industry. If you want to gain weight then drink organic/natural milk from reliable sources that don't pump their cows full of hormones and antibiotics.
Milk does have ILGF which is insulin like growth factor. It is designed to make a 30 pound calf weigh 500 pounds in 4 months. Milk makes you gain weight because that is what nature intended.

As for weight lifting versus running, it's the difference in hormonal response that causes the different result in weight loss.

Weight lifting causes an increase in testosterone / estrogen balance. It also induces the creation of human growth factors. It increases metabolism and helps the body shed fat.

Running for long distances creates a different response. Body fat proportions will increase in relation to muscle. Muscle will decrease. Stress hormones (natural evolutionary response to running excessive distances)will cause the body to hold onto fat. Skinny people stay skinny but fat people rarely get skinny by running alone.To lose fat faster, lift weights. Beginners should focus on doing full body movements properly. Squat, deadlift, press, pullups, (pulldowns with a machine) and other full body exercises will give the best hormonal response for maximum muscle and minimum fat.

I've lost 29 pounds since February and am doing pretty well. I expect to reach my body weight goal in August and feel better than I have in years.

Don't give up on weight loss. Answers are out there. They are just hard to find because of the propaganda put out by the food and drug industry for the last half century.

Good luck.

I agree, metabolism is the true key to weigh management.

Take my sister and I, she eats at least 5 times more then I yet has never been obese. I just have to look at food and gain weight. My life style is more sediment due to my job, sitting at a desk 8 hours a day, this in fact is very exhausting. My sister is a health care aid which means she is on her feet for her 8 hours.

So therefore, I believe to boost my metabolism I must eat more and eat more times a day. Like having a campfire, it burns hotter if you add small logs over a long period of time rather then one big log, which douses the fire.

Now to try to implement this while I work, eating at our desks is prohibited. Wish there was a master template on how to live healthy, learning as you go sucks. Sigh!

Rhain

Edit to add: The following link from William Banting (Banting Diet) is one of the best obese resolutions I have read to date.

Obesity was once consider the signs of opulence in the privilege classes.

Now Obesity is a modern day affliction that is killing Americas with the side effects and more linked to sugar, refine carbs, drug prescription and easy access to everything without the effort.

Yes, right now the side effects like diabetes is increasing rapidly in the US along with Obesity.

What we eat and the drugs we take is killing our nations population.

But I stand behind exercise as I have done it all my life and now that I am premenopause is helping keep the premenopausal weight down.

Is like everything in life, everything that has to do with health and health related issues is linked to the food we eat, how much we eat and the quality of it.

reply to post by Rhain


Dieting used to be called Banting. But, yeah, Banting is proof that we've known how to combat obesity for a while, it's just that the real research/data has been ignored in favor of the low-fat B.S. that's taken hold over the last 30 years.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Devolution..

I hope you have other sources. Have you seriously over looked that this article says nothing about their diet?
For all we know they could have been consuming extra calories to train. It's certainly something I have done in the past, as extra food consumption does help with training.

reply to post by badgerprints


Insulin is a trigger to let the cells begin to absorb more glucose.

They do this by packaging glucose into glycogen, allowing more glucose to enter the cells. As to my knowledge insulin=/= fat gain on it's own.

There is a difference between training, and physical activity.

When one is training for an event such as a marathon, they inevitably build large amounts of muscle from that training, in their legs, their core, their shoulders and elsewhere. Muscle weighs more than fat. Therefore, many people actually GAIN weight when training, even though they still reduce their amount of body fat.

Doing a simple physical activity, such as taking the stairs, is not the same. You are burning calories, but not in the repetitious way that training does, and therefore, you dont build that muscle. So there, you can actually lose weight.

The thing is, looking at weight as a means of defining whether or not you are in shape or fat is pointless. Weight is a VERY poor indicator of the shape one is in. I was in FAR better shape in my competitive athletic days at 200 pounds than I am now at 170. I had lower body fat, was stronger, and had far better stamina.

Anyone trying to get in shape ought to start by throwing out their scale. Far too many GOOD training programs are abandoned because of that infernal device..

reply to post by captaintyinknots


It's questionable how much weight is gained in muscle. There's a somewhat misunderstanding in how muscle actually forms and works I believe. But if someone were horribly out of shape then there might be quite a bit formed from the training.. However, someone like myself, the muscle is all there.. I run 3 miles a day five times a week.. My opinion on muscle is that it's hard to compare to something like weight training. It seems that when you are conditoned your body can handle whatever you throw at it when energy is available. You might only run three miles a day, but if you had to you could run ten miles. But try moving from 130 pounds to 200 pounds in a bench press? You'll be feeling the collapse of several hard structures on your chest and trachea.

Originally posted by badgerprints
Very simply, the body will not accumulate fat unless it has insulin in the bloodstream. When the body releases insulin into the bloodstream it puts all available resources (calories) into creating bodyfat. It doesn't matter if those calories come from protien, fat or carbohydrate.

When the body does not release insulin into the bloodstream it uses calories for energy, rebuilding muscle and to refill glycogen stores. The body does not save calories to fat unless there is insulin present.

Carbs create fat because they promote an insulin response.. Protein and fat do not create fat unless there is an insulin response.

Most of the rest about diet is manure and gunsmoke.

Look into recent (within the last 2 years) studies that specifically look at the effects of sugar on the diet and on the body. It is a poison in excess and damages the body. That is why the body uses insulin to remove it from the bloodstream as quickly as it can.

You can argue all day and hang on to the BS that the food industry brainwashed us with about carbs (sugar) being the most important thing to eat but there is no such thing as an essential carb.

Stick with proteins, fats, green vegetables and whole fruits (sparingly). Stay away from Beer, sweet wines, fruit juices, sugar, starches and yes, even grains. You will lose weight.

This guy knows what he is talking about. It's not about dieting its about your diet. Processed food makes you gain weight. It makes you hungry. It performs a number of tricks on your body. It's not even worth trying to figure it out. Stay away from all white flour, and white sugar. They literally take the nutrients and fiber(flour) out to make it that way. Learn about the acidity of your food. Just like plants our bodies need a specific ph range to perform optimally. A good diet will promote healing, high energy and a more natural body weight vs obesity. Add in some good exercise and watch the fat melt away.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Devo, while I really enjoy your medical conspiracy threads, I'm going to have to add my own personal anecdote into the mix, because of a thread that I read of yours a few months ago.

I was intrigued by the argument that it isn't how much exercise you do, but the types of foods that you eat, in specific. I started an experiment on February 2nd to determine if a caloric deficit and the types of foods I eat would promote weight loss in myself.

For the first month, I calculated my height and body weight with the amount of calories I would let myself consume in an average day. 3,000 calories is what my body "needed" to "maintain" its weight without gaining, and without losing. I immediately cut out 500 calories from my diet a day. I cut out all "white foods:" potatoes, white bread, rolls, buns, milk (to an extent), pasta, and a few others. I also cut out all "black foods" as I call them: fast food, sodas, sugar laden sweets, fatty meats, etc.

I replaced these foods with whole wheats, fresh vegetables, fresh fruits, lean meats, seafood, low fat milk, low fat cottage cheese, etc.

My results after one month, with no exercise at all were shocking. After the initial water weight loss, I lost a total of 11.5 pounds in the first month of just the change in diet. I lost 1 1/2" on my waist, 3" on my thighs, 1/2" on my arms, and my collar size dropped by a half a size. I could even see the weight loss in my face.

From March 1st to April 1st I added in 30 minutes of cardio exercise in 5-6 days a week with the same 2500 caloric intake a day (with more cardio if I was going to the pub with my friends). The results are as follows:

A total of 12 lbs lost, another inch off my waist, another 2 inches off my thighs, another half a size lost off my collar, arms are more toned, etc. The only discouraging part is the belly fat. This is going to be a challenge in the long run, but I'm confident in my routine that I can fix that.

From April 1st to the present day I have added a 20 minute weight lifting regimen 3 days a week, with cardio every other day. The results are as follows:

2 lbs lost, substantially more muscle tone in my arms, chest, legs, etc. I am starting to plateau with my weight loss (with added muscle gain), so it will be time to cut another 250 calories from my intake, as my body is starting to need less to operate. It's becoming more efficient.

So in total, I have lost a total of 2 1/2" from my waist, 5" on my thighs, a size and a half off my collar, a weight loss total of 25.5 lbs (265-239.5), and I feel a hell of a lot better. The only thing that gets me down is that my favorite clothes are no longer fitting. I might end up having to spring for an entirely new wardrobe in the following months.

Now, I forgot to mention fluid intake. I drink on average 2-3 liters of liquid a day, and this is a mixture between home brewed iced tea (no sugar, just a squeeze of lemon), water, and black coffee. I have about 3-4 alcohol beverages a week if I decide to enjoy some with friends at the pub. I have also allowed myself one day a week where I can eat whatever I want. I believe it is important in a complete life style change (and let's not kid ourselves, this is exactly what I am doing), to allow one's self the "guilty pleasures" as without them, one is liable to splurge, and that is counterproductive.

Now these test results in the article it seems, are based off of people who are probably already in decent physical shape if they are training for a marathon. How many obese people do you see training for a marathon? The people in question are probably already so fit that their bodies are at the peak of their operational strength, hence they use every bit of energy in an appropriate way, which does not promote weight loss. Me, on the other hand, who has lived an entire life of bad eating habits (not necessarily over eating, just eating the wrong things), has lost 25.5 pounds (mostly in fat) through change in diet and exercise. Maybe I'm the exception to your rule, but it's working for me.

I have come to terms with the fact that I will never be the 8 pack abs, super fit guy, nor do I want to. My body is not shaped like that, and I don't think I want it to be. My goal is for better all-around health, and weight loss is a bi-product of that.


I thought I would add my own story to the mix to show what hard work can do when one puts one's mind to it. I might even make my own thread to catalog everything that has happened to me thus far.

The weight loss conspiracy is an interesting one indeed, and I'll be looking forward to more of your perspective on this topic.




Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

reply to post by truthseeker1984


That's pretty awesome. Thanks for sharing.

But I'd like for you to focus more on the types of foods you cut out, rather then the amounts. You'll see that the common thread with your success story and others is the removal of processed carbohydrates from the diet.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Would muscle gain account for the weight increase?

Also, it seems like having long-distance sprinting skillz will come in very handy in the near future, regardless of the long-term health benefits.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Wouldn't it be simpler to have just written about the differences between aerobic and anaerobic exercise? And the various results from them?

The sort of running regimen (like marathon training) when repeated regularly, can condition the body's metabolism, and it adapts. As another member pointed out, increasing lean mass will have the effect of burning more fat, just to provide energy to keep the meat alive....running, jogging....is not designed for lean mass increase.

I was watching what seemed a sure-fire way to lose weight...it was on TV. Any full season of "Survivor"! LOL!

reply to post by mistermonculous


People really, really over-estimate the amount of muscle gained from workouts that are not specifically designed for muscle hypertrophy. Sure, some muscle would have been gained, but we're not talking about losing 10 pounds of fat and adding 12 pounds of muscle. It's much more likely that the amount of exercise being peformed led to a caloric defecit that slowed metabolism and increased hunger.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

 

Wouldn't it be simpler to have just written about the differences between aerobic and anaerobic exercise? And the various results from them?

If I wanted to do that, I would have titled the thread, "Efficacy: Anaerobic vs Aerobic"

Generally, exercising is intended to burn calories in order to effect energy balance (calories in/out)in such a way that either causes weight loss or weight maintenance. This idea is pretty ridiculous, as evidenced by the OP.

I'm very well aware of the effectiveness of anaerobic exercise, specifically interval training and metabolically demanding resistance training. However, these types of exercises don't neccessarily work by burning more calories during workouts, but rather through increasing hormone sensitivities and allowing fat metabolism during rest, among other things (excessive post workout oxygen consumption, EPOC)

It's just a dumbass idea to think "well, let me climb the stairs two flights instead of the elevator so I can burn an exra 50 calories" or "If I jog on the treadmill for 1 hour I can burn 500 calories and, if sustained for a week, I'll have lost 1 pound of fat!"

The sort of running regimen (like marathon training) when repeated regularly, can condition the body's metabolism, and it adapts.

Yeah, but in what are you speaking? You're telling me that it adapts by storing more fat regardless of the enormous amounts of caloric expenditure?

As another member pointed out, increasing lean mass will have the effect of burning more fat, just to provide energy to keep the meat alive.

And, again, don't over estimate the amount of energy 1 pound of "meat" burns. 1 pound of muscle gain will have a greater effect on glucose and insulin sensitivity than it will have directly metabolic rate.

...running, jogging....is not designed for lean mass increase

...which is why it's a stretch to think a marathoner's increase in weight is directly attributed to his/her muscle gain.

Exercise isn't just about weight loss.


Just as thinking isn't just about being smarter than some other person.

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd
reply to post by truthseeker1984

 

That's pretty awesome. Thanks for sharing.

But I'd like for you to focus more on the types of foods you cut out, rather then the amounts. You'll see that the common thread with your success story and others is the removal of processed carbohydrates from the diet.

I concur with that wholeheartedly. That is like a personal life story for me. Haven't done a lick of physical exercise in 1.5 years due to illness and gained 30 pounds over it. Turned to eating like the hunter/gatherer that I am and have lost 25 of those pounds already.

The last time I lost an honest 30 pounds of non-water weight was when I did 5 years of a hard martial art sport where I was doing it 4 nights a week for 3 hours. I defy anyone with a life to keep that up forever.

Interesting is that I eat only meat, fat, and berries, now.. and my stomach no longer tells me I'm starving...

reply to post by moogins


The vast majority of people exercising at any given gym are doing it for aesthetics-weight loss (fat loss). All other reasons--muscle hypertrophy(aesthetics), muscle toning (aesthetics), health, athletic training, trying to get laid--come in second place.

Of course exercise isn't JUST about weight loss. The point, however, is that if exercising to burn calories actually works for weight loss, then why aren't marathoners at 6% body fat?

For weight loss, and more moderate excercise, there are many fad diets, but amongst the diets that actually worked too well when I was young ,was thin and constantly hungry, but now this is the what I've returned to.
Raw food diet and fruit is great, and if that works for a person, its good providing you're getting grains, b12, and essential amino acids. Otherwise perhaps a modified raw food diet, say 3-4 times a week.

But my preference is to add, as many raw foods, or semi cooked veggies and fruit to your diet, like stir fries. But also, to ensure that at least once a week or more, perhaps 2-3 meals, you can partake in something you like that violates the combinations, so, speghetti and meatballs, tacos, a sandwich even.

Your system produces two types of digestive juices, acids for proteins and alkalines for starches. The two cancel out when produced at the same time. So meat and potatoes say, a protein and a starch, or a meat sandwich, again a protein and a starch, or tacos' proten filled starch. This cancels your digestive enzymes and juices out, and creates major problems.

Fruit has its own enzymes, especially ripe fruit, so to, most of the time, eat it alone, and it should go through you in 20 minutes or so.

Separate proteins and starches and make meals around those items separately adding vegetables only.

You will notice the difference in that your body will metabolize food faster and it won't stay in your system for a long time, which a slower metabolism does.


Within reason, don't limit portions, don't count calories, it doesnt' work, there is always a counter action in your system, and scarsity doesn't work.

Within reason, meaning, this doesnt mean force feed yourself or overeat and seconds and thirds. But it does mean, eat until you are full. Ensure that most of the days, what you eat is good for you, whole foods, healthy alternatives, not over processed, and lots of fruit and vegetables. Real whole foods include butter, not factory made margarines, cold pressed virgin olive oil and coconut oils, the last two are good for you, regulate your system and prevent/cure diseases.

Excercise in moderation. Just moving, ie. gentle running or what could be called stepping, for 20 minutes say, timing them say with youtube videos which give the time, and taking 1-2 minute breaks between if necessary, gets your stomach juices flowing and will speed up digestion.

Also,


How to Use an Exercise Ball : Strengthening Your Abs Using an Exercise Ball


Max Wettstein: Resistance Band Training

In addition bicyling in the air, dance muscle resistance excercises. Trampoline is great. Bicycling. Walking. Swimming.


BellydanceGuru - Shimmy - Exercise #6

Great excercise and can be modified, done slow, just dance.

If someone with chronic fatigue syndrome, 100% malfunctioning thyroid, and in a lineup for surgery, needing reconstructuring inside, can loose weight and gain toning, gradually, nearly anyone can.