Area 51/Groom Lake Research Project

Here's more proof that the TR-3 exists and is being used:

Northrop even went as far as patenting this design as D365-545

Known and Roumored Black Projects

Frist of all that proves the design IS REAL; you can Not patent something that doesn't exist! If the design wasn't being used why would they patent it? The fact that this is the same design that was mentioned in my previous post on the TR-3, tells us there is more to it then just an idea. We know and can prove that the NSA uses secret spy planes. I'm guessing the patent was supposed to be secret, but someone screwed up. This ties in with my earlier find about the TR-3. We've got one, let's go find some more.

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

I think I found where most (if not all) of the mystery planes out at Groom Lake are coming from, Calafornia! I was looking through the ATS website, and I found info on a place called, Antelope Valley. Anthelop Valley is home to the Lockheed Skunkworks, Northrop Grumman Advanced Systems Division, and McDonnald Douglas Phantom Works. These three companies together account for most of the Black Projects involving aircrafts in the US. This area is well known for sightings of strange aircrafts. According to a December 1993 article in Popular Mechanics, this was where one of the first Sighting of the TR-3 Spy Plane occured late one night.
Antelope Valley
Here's a link to the info on the ATS website. Maybe the best way to find out what is out at Groom Lake, is to go to Anthelop Valley, CA. and find out what they are building. Anthelop Valley builds'em, Groom Lake tests'em!

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

Originally posted by ghost
I think I found where most (if not all) of the mystery planes out at Groom Lake are coming from, Calafornia! I was looking through the ATS website, and I found info on a place called, Antelope Valley.

Heh Heh dated a girl from antelope valley many many years ago. As mentioned in the ATS link there are numerous Test and Radar Cross Section facilities there. Also, don't forget Palmdale and Helendale and Lancaster are all in Antelope Valley.

The RCS test areas are most noteable. Planes that are created have to be tested for RCS. These tests would have to take place at these facilities. Note that all the major Black project companies have a test range.

Tejon RCS Facility - Northrop Grumman
The facility is located at the northwest end of the Antelope Valley, on the slopes of the Tehachapi Mountains, at the mouth of Little Oak Canyon. It is 18 miles due west of the town of Rosamond.
A published account in 1985 stated that the range has the ability to test at frequencies from 2 GHz to 18 GHz

Gray Butte RCS Facility - McDonnell Douglas
McDonnell Douglas's Gray Butte RCS facility is located approximately 25 miles due east of Palmdale, on the Los Angeles-San Bernardino county line. It is at the site of an old World War II auxiliary airfield and has utilized the old runways as its ranges. The site address is 25500 East Avenue R-8, Palmdale. Literature put out by McDonnell Douglas describes three different independent ground plane ranges, varying in length from 1260' to 3750'. They can test over a continuous frequency range of 145 MHz to 18 GHz, and also spot frequencies of 24 and 35 GHz.

Junction Ranch RCS Range at China Lake
It is located in an isolated valley on the west side of the Argus Mountain range, about 2 miles southwest of Maturango Peak in the far northeastern portion of the China Lake Naval Weapons Center. Junction Ranch can perform extremely rapid measurements in UHF, L, S, C, X, Ku and Ka frequency bands. The facility also has the capability for bistatic RCS measurement. Because of the very low levels of RF interference at the location, HF capability (40-60 MHz) has recently been added.

Helendale Avionics Facility - Lockheed Martin
This facility is located on approximately 9 square miles (over 5,700 acres) of land, about 5 miles north of Helendale and just west of the Mojave River. It has a site address of 17452 Wheeler Road, Helendale CA 92342
The facility has the capability to test the complete frequency range from 120 MHz to 18 GHz, and a spot frequency of 35 GHz with four different signal polarizations This is the facility alot of UFO types claim has huge underground capacities due to the pylon that can raise up from the ground.

Just a little FYI The Skunk Works are in Palmdale at Plant 42
Edwards AFB test center is also there
Lockheed and Edwards are the biggest employers in the area.

Also is the Blackbird park. Its the only place you can see an A-12 and SR-71 Side by side
[edit on 23-7-2004 by FredT]

[edit on 24-7-2004 by FredT]

[edit on 24-7-2004 by FredT]


posted on 23-7-2004 at 08:47 Post Number: 682901 (post id: 703595)
quote: Originally posted by ghost
Here's more proof that the TR-3 exists and is being used:
We know and can prove that the NSA uses secret spy planes. I'm guessing the patent was supposed to be secret, but someone screwed up. This ties in with my earlier find about the TR-3. We've got one, let's go find some more.

Tim, a couple of areas to look into: Drones . DarkStar (Tier III-) would also be a good ELINT platform. There also was a Tier III+, but I havent found tons on it. AWST after GWII printed an article about the AF using a new secret drone over Iraq. In one of my Reference books "Lockheed Stealth" by Bill Sweetman, it has a drawing of a ultra long range stealth Drone called DistantStar. It makes sence that NSA would and could use these platforms to gather signals etc. The NSA's budget is pretty black and could hide a program or two in it. From the info Ive looked at the TR3-a leans towards a recce/targeting role which could jive in the direction you are headed.

In a far as patents are concerned, they are always avalible to the public. If you know were to work. Like the Nuclear powered tunnel boring machine that has a pattent. Secret no doubt, but you can't hide it in the patent office...

posted on 23-7-2004 at 08:57 Post Number: 682920 (post id: 703614)
More Area 51 Minutia

Tracked down the term Watertown Strip: Turns out that Allen Dulles's home town in New york was "watertown" Coincidence? I think Not!

A lead mine was also in the mountains near groom lake that belonged to the Sheahan familiy. They would be evacuated when tests went off. Some were so close that cattle and wild horses would be found dead later with beta burns. His wife would evetually die of cancer. I am trying to see if the mines still have claims on them from the state of nevada. You never know what you might be able to buy.

People at the Ranch wore dosimeters to gague radiation exposure. In 1955 alone there were no less than 14 nuclear detonation at the NTS Area 51 had to be evacuated for each test. One test (an airburst) cause radiation levels to be measure as high as 80-90 Mrems. .02-.04 is normal. Yikes.

Intersting to note, I uncovered Operation Plumbob (1957), which was designed to test if an accident might cause a bomb to go critical. It spread plutonium over a 900 acres site called Area 13. It was not cleaned up untill 1981. Kind of like a dirty bomb eh?

posted on 23-7-2004 at 20:35 Post Number: 684069 (post id: 704763)
TR-3A and NSA at Groom lake

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by ghost
Northrop even went as far as patenting this design as D365-545

Known and Roumored Black Projects

Im wondering if Northrop was involved. Lockheed was also competed in the Stealth Bomber comp. Ben Rich in his book "Skunk Works" describes the Lockheed entry as a smaller all wing version than the Northrop design. It has a lower payload but was much more stealthy that the Northrop design. Most description of the Black Manta describe this type of triangular all wing design. It seems plausable that if the NSA was using the TR3-A for elint, sigint etc. They would not be able to hide the massive budget dent that a from scratch design would cost. Whereas if the Skunk Works had already been payed to make a prototype, it could easily be adapted and production costs hidden into the budget.

The question is why would the NSA need a plane for this when in the past they have turfed this operation to the AF and Navy.

If the NSA is involved with Groom lake, it would have to be for aircraft/drone work only. All the sattelite shots I have seen of teh base do not show any of the antenna farms that you would expect .

posted on 24-7-2004 at 18:56 Post Number: 685699 (post id: 706393)
CIA and Air Force

Doing a little digging trying to pin down the NSA involvment at Groom, but I managed to dig up this recently declassified memo. The AF was never happy about the CIA running its own air force. Apparently they tried to get the entire OXCART program trans. to them. (A-12, D-21 etc. It makes for interesting reading and shows things may not have always been chummy at the Ranch... Also, the justification of future black systems that would no doubt be tested at Groom

www.gwu.edu...

The ongoing debates between the CIA and AF. the 2nd like ir really interesting as the CIA explains why the A-12 is surperior to the SR-71 and gets into figures for altitude and speed etc.

www.gwu.edu...
www.gwu.edu...

Lastly, this 1986 memo that is heavly blanked out asseses the threats that current and future "airbreathing" Recce platforms face from the Soviets. It does not mention a replacement, but this may be a justification for the development of the Aurora etc.

www.gwu.edu...

posted on 24-7-2004 at 20:25 Post Number: 685801 (post id: 706495)
The CIA memo that started Aquatone and Ult. Area 51

This is the actual CIA memo that recomends the production of the CIA's U2 and ultimetly lead to the founding of Area 51 for testing. Not sure it helps but is intersting nonetheless.

www.gwu.edu...

posted on 24-7-2004 at 22:20 Post Number: 685862 (post id: 706556)
Followup on Drones At Area 51

I found some evidence that the CIA uses other areas in the Antelope Valley for some drone testing. Note: none of these are "black"

quote:
Another interesting place is the CIA's El Mirage Flight Test Facility, used for testing their Gnat-750 and Predator UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles, i.e., reconnaissance drones.) These UAVs resemble large model airplanes. The El Mirage facility is operated by the manufacturer of the UAVs, General Atomics Corp. It has a 3700 foot (1138 meters) long runway in DMA aeronautical chart JOG NI 11-5. To get there, exit Highway 14 at Avenue P in Palmdale, and go east. You will go past Air Force Plant 42 (Lockheed's Skunk Works occupies the big hangar at the western part of Plant 42) and the Blackbird (SR-71) Museum

posted on 24-7-2004 at 22:50 Post Number: 685874 (post id: 706568)
THE EPA and Groom lake and the former employee lawsuits

quote:
Federal agencies are also subject to the requirements of federal pollution control laws. such as the Clean Water Act, the Clean Air Act, and the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA). EPA has a mandate to oversee the enforcement of the environmental laws at federal facilities, including those that conduct highly classified research operations.

In this regard, an ongoing lawsuit by former employees at an Air Force facility near Groom Lake, Nevada, alleged violations of RCRA, including EPA's failure to conduct a RCR inspection there. EPA has affirmed that EPA field inspectors conducted an inspection of the location pursuant to RCRA from December 1994 to March 1995. In August 1995, the U.S. District Court for the District of Nevada ruled that the plaintiffs' objectives in bringing the suit had been accomplished, in that EPA had performed its duties under RCRA to inspect and inventory the site. (3)

In May 1995, EPA and the Air Force affirmed by a memorandum of agreement that EPA w ill continue to have access at the Groom Lake facility for purposes of administering the environmental laws and that the Air Force is committed to complying with RCRA at the location. The details of the issues resulting in the agreement are classified. According to the director of EPA's Office of Federal Facilities Enforcement, EPA is fulfilling its oversight responsibility at the facility. However, he said he was uncertain of the extent to which other such highly classified federal facilities-- or areas within facilities-- may exist and whether their research operations are in environmental compliance.
- In September 1995, President Clinton exempted the Air Force's classified facility near Groom Lake, Nevada from the public disclosure provisions of RCRA, determining that the exemption was in the paramount interest of the United States.

[edit on 13-8-2004 by ADVISOR]

apologies, but some problems have occured in my personal life and i have to focus all of my attention towards them. Im sorry, but i have to bail on you guys, but this is very important. Again, my apologies to everyone on the team.

- infinite

Originally posted by FredT

Im wondering if Northrop was involved. Lockheed was also competed in the Stealth Bomber comp. Ben Rich in his book "Skunk Works" describes the Lockheed entry as a smaller all wing version than the Northrop design. It has a lower payload but was much more stealthy that the Northrop design. Most description of the Black Manta describe this type of triangular all wing design. It seems plausable that if the NSA was using the TR3-A for elint, sigint etc. They would not be able to hide the massive budget dent that a from scratch design would cost. Whereas if the Skunk Works had already been payed to make a prototype, it could easily be adapted and production costs hidden into the budget.

The question is why would the NSA need a plane for this when in the past they have turfed this operation to the AF and Navy.

If the NSA is involved with Groom lake, it would have to be for aircraft/drone work only. All the sattelite shots I have seen of teh base do not show any of the antenna farms that you would expect .
[edit on 25-7-2004 by FredT]

First of all, USAF and DoD records we found on the B-2 Research project contradict Ben Rich's clames about his ATB design being stealthier. Second, the Flying Wing is known to be a tricky design to work with(the B-2 is based on Research that Northrop has been doing continiously since the late 1920's). The Buget dent was hidden by splitting the costs with the USAF, so they only payed for 1/2 of it.

READ THE NEXT SECTION CAREFULLY, IT WILL ANSWER ALL OF YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THE PLANE IS OPERATED!

Now as for your question about why the NSA would Need a plane for this when they always use the USAF and the Navy for this in the past. The NSA works very differently then the CIA. The National Security Agency has a sub-orgnization called the Central Security Service(CSS). The CSS is made up military personell that also work in the armed forces. The Four units of the CSS are: Air Force Security Service, Army Security Agency, Naval Security Group, and Marine Security Detatchment. Through the CSS the NSA shares its buget, it's assets and its techincal experties with the four branches of the military. NOW HERE'S THE TRICK THAT MAKES IT WORK: In exchange for shairing it's buget and Technical Experties, The NSA get's priority tasking and partial mission control rights. This means the that while the Air Force owns the plane on the records, The NSA gets a say in it's use and first dips at any intelligences it collects. The Air Force owns and operates the plane, But any Intelligence that it collects is sent straight the NSA Headquaters in real-time via. SATCOM link. The NSA then shares it with the USAF as soon as the data is processed. This is also how the RC-135V/W Rivet Joint and RC-135S Cobra Ball spyplanes are used. This means the only facilities they need for the TR-3 out at Groom Lake are hangers, maintainence and fule, runways and crew support (All of which the base has had since it was built). Since nothing is processed at Groom Lake, they don't need huge antannas or satallite dishes. You're right, it is technically an Air Force aircraft, but The NSA has a major say in when, where and how the TR-3 is used.

For More info on how the NSA works and how they use Spy Planes flown by the US Air Force, Read the fallowing books by James Bamford(I got most of my info on the NSA from these two books):

The Puzzle Palace
www.amazon.com...=1090854976/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/104-9617736-9720713?v=glance&s=books" target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">The Puzzle Palace

Body of Secrets
Body of Secrets

I'm willing to admit if I'm Wrong, but I honestly don't think I am this time. Let's look into it some more and see! I know the Aurora is a Lockheed Skunkworks project, but I seriously doubt that the Black Manta is. Also, we know that Northrop is working on several Black Projects.

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance



[edit on 26-7-2004 by ghost]

I actually have both in my library.

I actually think its a great thought about the NSA using the base to test thier planes / drones. And as you mentioned NSA guards its sercets well. I will keep digging. If I have time I will try to wander over to the Hoover Inst. on the Stanford Campus (Condi Rice was a Proff there) and see what gems thier library yields






posted on 26-7-2004 at 09:20 Post Number: 688532 (post id: 709226)
New Company working at Area 51?

Another company to add to our list. The Company is called JT3 LLC
www.jt3.com...
Thier job page lists a few electronic jobs at a place called Tolicha Peak that is an electronic warfare test area in the Nellis Range. Learn something new every day

It is supposed to be a joint effort of Raytheon and our favority company EG&G.

The info comes fom a March 17, 2004 article of the Las Vegas Review. It talks about a plane that went down in the Nellis Range area. Rumor has it it was from Area 51. The craft is described as a Bonanza type plane
quote:
TA Nellis spokeswoman, 1st Lt. Amy Render, said the plane, which belonged to the Air Force Material Command, was taking contract workers for a Las Vegas company, JT3 LLC, from a classified airstrip on the Nellis range to the Tonopah Test Range.


www.reviewjournal.com...

Another is www.ch2mhill.com. Its construction / services company called CH2mHill Not alot of info avalible other wise

posted on 26-7-2004 at 09:26 Post Number: 688548 (post id: 709242)
NSA and UAV's

Tim, more support for NSA testing UAV's at groom lake. Its not a smoking gun, but we may have to try to build up circumstantial evidence.

ITs from a Aviation Week Article July 6, 2003

quote:
NSA, for example, has responsibility for intercepting and decoding foreign messages. But the proliferation of cell phone technology has overwhelmed the ability of the nation's signals intelligence-gathering satellites to collect and analyze much of this data. The answer may be communications intelligence payloads fitted to UAVs. The unmanned aircraft offer a more flexible schedule than satellites, can observe operations far longer and are cheaper, said UAV advocates.


www.aviationnow.com.../07073news.xml

posted on 26-7-2004 at 09:28 Post Number: 688552 (post id: 709246)
More NSA Tidbits

Your post today you talked about the AF sharing budget items with the NSA here is some proof. Its from the same article above:

quote: The Defense Dept. plans to spend $23.3 billion in Fiscal 2004 ($11.3 billion on weapons procurement and $11.8 billion for research and development), according to a new report by the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments. Classified acquisition funding has increased by about 75% since Fiscal 1995, the report said. It also noted that the Air Force's budget request contains 75% of the Defense Dept.'s classified acquisition funding and that classified programs account for 37% ($10.9 billion) of the service's procurement request and 32% ($6.6 billion) of its research and development requests. The budget is inflated each year by Air Force spending on behalf of the CIA, National Security Agency (NSA) and National Reconnaissance Office.

www.aviationnow.com.../07073news.xml

posted on 26-7-2004 at 10:07 Post Number: 688628 (post id: 709322)
Area 51 and the Anasazi?

Came across and intersting tidbit:
Came across a job description for a "Range Rider" and Edwards AFB
Could the land closure at Nellis / Area 51 be hiding the remains of ancient civilizations? Or perhaps a clue to the fate of the Anasazi. IF you look at the job description, "experience in acheology" as well as protecting sites from looters. The job lists Edwards, but one has to wonder if these jobs exist at Nellis. Its a stretch but who knows.


quote:
This flex position is located at Edwards Air Force Base near Lancaster, CA. This is an hourly position (no medical or dental insurance coverage). This limited term position is located at Edwards Air Force Base in California. The Range Rider will be a trained cultural resource specialist with an A.A or B.A. in anthropology or Archaeology and two years of professional experience in archaeology. Experience with ARPA is a plus. The Range Rider will document previously unidentified damage to key archaeological resources; document Base boundary fence and gate damage; and detect, witness, and document unauthorized Base intruders and archaeological site looters. Accomplishment of this task involves site visits/monitoring four days per week, including Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays. The Range Rider must have knowledge of archaeological methods, site reporting, and how to use a GPS unit. The Range Rider must have a valid CA driver's license or be able to obtain one, have a good driving record and be able to obtain a Security Clearance. This is

posted on 26-7-2004 at 15:15 Post Number: 689159 (post id: 709853)
Special thanks to MPJay

He found a web page that has pictures and descriptions of the D-21/M-21 crash that killed the backseat officer. The planes were flown out of Groom.

www.wvi.com...

[edit on 13-8-2004 by ADVISOR]

Good find Fred. The Darkstar was a srunken down version of the Top Secret, Project Quarts, known by the nickname "Q". The origional Q-plane had many technical problems, and was cancelled. It's intended mission was split between the Tier 2+ Globehawk and the Tier 3- Darkstar. It sound from the report like they might have revived the Q, for a new job. I pulled the Fallowing quote from the website you listed in your post.

"It has the hull form of the DarkStar, only it's bigger," agreed a U.S. Navy official. "It's still far from a production aircraft, but the Air Force wanted to go ahead and get it out there. They have to determine if the intelligence they can gather from it is worth paying several times more than the cost of the [non-stealthy] Global Hawk."

If the NSA has revived the Q, they must be planning to go after some kind of loiteral target, that will require them to hang out for hours unseen and evesdrop on eletronic signals. Maybe it will be used to complement Cobra Ball, the RC-135's configured to spy on missile tests and record the telemetry data. These RC's record the missile tracking signal, which allow ground stations to monitor it's progress towards the target. Telemetry Intelligence (TELINT) requires an aircraft to hangout duing the test launches, which sounds like an ideal mission for the Q. I'll do some digging and see what I can find on it.

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

[edit on 27-7-2004 by ghost]

Originally posted by FredT
Doing a little digging trying to pin down the NSA involvment at Groom, but I managed to dig up this recently declassified memo. The AF was never happy about the CIA running its own air force. Apparently they tried to get the entire OXCART program trans. to them. (A-12, D-21 etc. It makes for interesting reading and shows things may not have always been chummy at the Ranch... Also, the justification of future black systems that would no doubt be tested at Groom

www.gwu.edu...

The ongoing debates between the CIA and AF. the 2nd like ir really interesting as the CIA explains why the A-12 is surperior to the SR-71 and gets into figures for altitude and speed etc.

www.gwu.edu...
www.gwu.edu...

Lastly, this 1986 memo that is heavly blanked out asseses the threats that current and future "airbreathing" Recce platforms face from the Soviets. It does not mention a replacement, but this may be a justification for the development of the Aurora etc.

www.gwu.edu...


[edit on 25-7-2004 by FredT]

[edit on 25-7-2004 by FredT]

[edit on 25-7-2004 by FredT]

Based on these documents, I'd say the CIA has been at odds with the on airborn reconnaissance, almost since the beginning. That leads me to a question. After so many years of fighting for the mission, what would have prompted the CIA to give it up, Or did they really stop flying their own spy planes? Finding the answer to these questions might give us a look at the Real secrets of how dreamland works!

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

I've reviewed over the last few posts. We know that drones are the big direction right now for tactical aircraft and Reconn. Maybe we need to give the link between UAV's and Area 51 a closer look. My question is, does anyone know a good way to look for secret UAV's and UCAV's?

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

Originally posted by ghost
I've reviewed over the last few posts. We know that drones are the big direction right now for tactical aircraft and Reconn.

Tim,

That would be great direction to turn. I have a few tenuous links to the NSA posted above regarding drones. But Groom is a perfect place to test these articles. We actually have a pretty good working list of UAV/UCAVs going right now. I have tried to find out more information on the "Distant Star" I found in the Locheed book, but have not had success yet.

The other area we have peeked at are directed energy weapons. This weeks AWST has an article about the US getting ready to put microwave weapons on the (In order of deployment) the CALCM, Tommahawk, and the JASSM. the MALD is a future canidate (2012). I recently discovered (It was new to me at any rate) that there is an electronic warfare range at Nellis. Groom would be a great place to keep these birds.

THe CIA / Air Force Memo's: From books etc, we know that SAC and the AF were not happy with the CIA having its own planes. BUT, this kind of disinformation would be perfect for and much in charecter for the CIA. I doubt that they would completely give up a mission of this type.

The only other player and this is purly conjecture on my part at Groom: What about NASA? They have done some classified things. The Venturestar, which was a Skunk Works / NASA project could have been the public persona of a very black project? That huge hanger that was recently built on the base perplexes me and I would give alot to take a peek inside

Originally posted by FredT
The only other player and this is purly conjecture on my part at Groom: What about NASA? They have done some classified things. The Venturestar, which was a Skunk Works / NASA project could have been the public persona of a very black project? That huge hanger that was recently built on the base perplexes me and I would give alot to take a peek inside

NASA, I've never though of them! They are experts on putting things in space. Space based systems, such as Spy Satellites, or Weapons Satellites have to get up there some how. Also, Ive heard that they often work with US Space Command (Now part of US Strategic Command) in launching military payloads. Let's look at both of those orginizations: NASA, and US Strategic Command, maybe we'll find something. If there are space weapons out there, they most likely belong to Strategic Command. I'll see what I can find.

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

USSTRATCOM provides space support to deployed U.S. military forces worldwide and defends the Defense Information Infrastructure, the computer and communications networks, of the Department of Defense against unauthorized intrusion or attack. The command's space missions consist of:
* Space Support: Launching and operating satellites. Includes satellite operations and telemetry, tracking, and commanding (TT&C), and spare activation. All launches occur at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla., or Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif.
* Force Enhancement: Satellite communications, navigation, weather, missile warning and intelligence.
* Space Control: Assuring U.S. access to and freedom of operation in space, and denying enemies the same.
* Force Application: Researching and developing space-based capabilities that have the potential to engage adversaries from space. Requires policy change before implementation.

The above is from Strategic Command's website. What it shows is the Space control mission that STRATCOM has. It also shows that they launch from Cape Canaveral, FL. and Vandenberg AFB., CA. If they are working on Space based weapons at Groom Lake, I positive that US Strategic Command is directly involve. Maybe it's US Stratcom we need to be looking at. Here's the link: Strategic Command in space

Let's see what else we can find on spaceop's at Area 51!

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

Its not at Groom lake, but.... The 30th Space Wing is based at Vandenberg. However, thier mission is a varied one. Is it possible that this is the "Public face" with descrete operations occuring eleswere. Also, Vandenberg has alot of contractors working there at any given time given the variety of programs they run. It seems resonable that they would turn sensative stuff to Groom. It also may help to link Groom to SDI research aas well.

FROM THE 30th's WEB SITE
We are here to support your Spacelift, Ballistic, Aeronautical and Test & Evaluation programs
from start to finish.. We are dedicated to applying 30 SW resources to meet your requirements.

They also evealute and test project for comapanies and other services.

The unit is comprised of the following groups:
30th Operations Support Squadron
30th Space Communications Squadron
2d Range Operations Squadron
30th Range Management Squadron
30th Weather Squadron
76th Helicopter Flight
30th Mission Support Squadron
30th Civil Engineer Squadron
30th Security Forces Squadron
30th Contracting Squadron
30th Logistics Readiness Squadron
30th Services Squadron
2d Space Launch Squadron
4th Space Launch Squadron
1st Air & Space Test Squadron

The last one is intersting. It also was one of two subgroups on the 30th's page that did not have a link for more information.

www.vandenberg.af.mil...


[edit on 27-7-2004 by FredT]

Another Find By MPJAY (thanks alot)

Seinor Prom, a lockheed developed missile. Aparently it was also faceted like the F-117. It was killed because of its size:

Lockheed SENIOR PROM
SENIOR PROM was a U.S. Air Force program in the early 1980s for a stealthy cruise missile. Because the project is still highly classified, very little information is available, and even that is largely unconfirmed.

The external shape of the SENIOR PROM missile was reportedly similar to the HAVE BLUE stealth testbed. Therefore it can be assumed that the missile was powered by one or two turbojets. Recoverable prototypes of SENIOR PROM were launched from B-52H aircraft, but no production contract was awarded. One reported reason is that the missile was too bulky to be carried in the bomb bay of a B-1B. Given the relatively wide and flat shape of the HAVE BLUE design, this sounds plausible. Development of a stealthy cruise missile was subsequently continued by the AGM-129 ACM (Advanced Cruise Missile) and AGM-137 TSSAM (Tri-Service Standoff Attack Missile) programs.

www.astronautix.com...

Tim, et al

Take a look at the great map of Groom in this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...

One item I have not picked up on before is the leech ponds in the lower left corner by what looks like a cement plant. Why would they need a leech pond? You see them in working mines like copper gold etc when they dunp the tailings and solutions used to process things. Wonder what they are doing with em?

In talking about Space and Groom lake I have not found any direct links as of yet, but the www.spacecom.mil... site based at Offut AFB is another link in the Space Command system. They did not allow me acces to thier site but using the cached feature I came up with this:

Airborne Command Post
Ballistic Missile Submarines
Bombers (B-2) (B-52)
Command Emblem
Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles
Joint Information Operations Center
Manned Space Flight Support
Military Space Forces
National Airborne Operations Center
Space Control
Space Missions
RC-135 Reconnaissance Aircraft
Theater Ballistic Missile Warning

We talked about NSA ops and the RC-135 is listed as one of thier assests. Still trying to get that direct link though.. Time to keep digging

The ARMY has a pretty big space command too. Alot of thier laser testing is at White Sands. They have pretty cool PDF brocures about thier various programs
www.smdc.army.mil...




[edit on 28-7-2004 by FredT]

Originally posted by FredT
Its not at Groom lake, but.... The 30th Space Wing is based at Vandenberg. However, thier mission is a varied one. Is it possible that this is the "Public face" with descrete operations occuring eleswere. Also, Vandenberg has alot of contractors working there at any given time given the variety of programs they run. It seems resonable that they would turn sensative stuff to Groom. It also may help to link Groom to SDI research aas well.

FROM THE 30th's WEB SITE
We are here to support your Spacelift, Ballistic, Aeronautical and Test & Evaluation programs
from start to finish.. We are dedicated to applying 30 SW resources to meet your requirements.

They also evealute and test project for comapanies and other services.

The unit is comprised of the following groups:
30th Operations Support Squadron
30th Space Communications Squadron
2d Range Operations Squadron
30th Range Management Squadron
30th Weather Squadron
76th Helicopter Flight
30th Mission Support Squadron
30th Civil Engineer Squadron
30th Security Forces Squadron
30th Contracting Squadron
30th Logistics Readiness Squadron
30th Services Squadron
2d Space Launch Squadron
4th Space Launch Squadron
1st Air & Space Test Squadron

The last one is intersting. It also was one of two subgroups on the 30th's page that did not have a link for more information.

www.vandenberg.af.mil...
[edit on 27-7-2004 by FredT]

I doubt that they would have such a large wing at Groom Lake. I was thinking more like a detachment. Let's see in the wing records have any units called Det #. I'll look into it.

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

We talked about the military planes being controlled by the NSA.. Here is the COnfirmation of that.:

www.gwu.edu...

Item #3 of the Directors responsabilities include: Inthe case of mobile military SIGINT platforms, he shall state movement requirements through appropriate channels to the military commanders who shall retain responsability for oeprational command of the vehicles.


posted on 28-7-2004 at 07:03 Post Number: 692621 (post id: 713315)
More U-2 Infor and AF participation

Below is a link to a declassified agreement (dated august 1955) between the CIA and the AF to provide support and pilots for the U2 Project. The AF called it Project OILSTONE

www.gwu.edu...


posted on 28-7-2004 at 07:44 Post Number: 692728 (post id: 713422)
More NSA Stuff

This document essential IMHO kicks the CIA out of the SIGINT business and installs the NSA. The NSA in turn has to be responsive CIA requests for info. Dated in 1976. It is reasonable to assume that the CIA would have to turn over any air based sigint assests it owned at the time. Perhaps this is the entry point of the NSA to area 51??

www.gwu.edu...

posted on 28-7-2004 at 19:35 Post Number: 694011 (post id: 714705)
Were Groom got its name.

Okay, more minutia for us to chew on. Finally tracked down how Groom came about the name "Groom". This corresponds to the USGS Quad maps that are all labled Groom Mine etc.
quote:
The Groom Mining District is located in Lincoln County, Nevada, about 50 miles north of Indian Springs and 100 miles southwest of Pioche. The Conception Mines were the first worked in that area, in about 1871. The name "Groom" appeared in the early 1870s as a result of an English financing of the Conception Mines by the "Groome Lead Mines Limited." The area contained mostly low grade ores of silver and lead - no gold. Other claims in the vicinity of the Conception included the Willow, Maria, and White Lake (sometimes referred to in these records as Whitelake).

J.B. Osborne and his partners acquired the claims at Groom and patented them in 1876. Osborne's son, T.J., acquired these interests in the 1890s. In June, 1916 these claims were incorporated as the Groom Nevada Lead Mines Company and as the Groom Southend Mining Company. As records in this collection indicate, Osborne worked the mines yearly to maintain his claims according to federal mining law. Reports by mining engineers gave enough promise of possible discoveries to maintain interest over a long period of time. The property was leased to several operators, including L.L. Patrick and Tom McCormac but after Osborne's death in 1918 the lessees withdrew and the mine was closed. Production resumed after World War II but closed permanently in the early 1950s.


Im not quite that hardcore, but this information comes from the University of Nevada at Reno's archives. Supposed to have 100 or so pics of the area from the 1900's if someone want to look through them
www.library.unr.edu...

posted on 28-7-2004 at 19:41 Post Number: 694021 (post id: 714715)
Wish I had found this before I sent off the FOIA requests:

quote:
Apparently the Air Force "operating location near Groom Lake" has no official name that is not classified. However, the land which the operating location occupies was officially referred to as that withdrawn by Public Land Order (PLO) 1662 until the military lands withdrawal act of 1999 rescinded PLO 1662 per � 3011(b)(2)(A). As far as the United States government is concerned, there is no "Area 51." Should you submit correspondence to the government concerning the operating location, do not refer to it as "Area 51." Refer to it as "the United States Air Force operating location near Groom Lake, Nevada on land originally withdrawn by Public Land Order 1662," and you will not foreclose the possibility of receiving a meaningful response

www.geocities.com...

posted on 28-7-2004 at 19:44 Post Number: 694025 (post id: 714719)
More Timeline Information

Silver was discovered in 1864 and worked occasionally until the early 1870s when, because of its isolation, the mine was abandoned

The United States military was not active in the Groom Lake ara until 1940, when President Roosevelt signed executive order 8578 establishing the Las Vegas Bombing and Gunnery Range, what is today the Nellis Air Force Range. Roosevelt withdrew 3.5 million acres of land from the civilian public domain to create the range, making it the largest military range in the Western world.


posted on 28-7-2004 at 19:49 Post Number: 694032 (post id: 714726)
Area 51 name for the DOE and My take on the name issue

The Department of Energy seems to refer to the base as "Area 51" the link is to a bad copy of a memo about Dead Cattle in "Area 51". Kind of have to wonder 1) how they got all the way there, and 2) what killed them?
www.geocities.com...

Also Kelly Johnson at the chalkboard from a clip taken from "Kelly's Way" a video they used to show at the Edwards Museum clearly shows a reference to Area 51
www.geocities.com...

So here is my name theory. Perhaps part of the security plan is that it does not have an offical designation. That would simplify denials. Each agency then has given the area its own "nickname" that would explain why there are so many?? What do you think?


posted on 29-7-2004 at 01:57 Post Number: 694359 (post id: 715053)
One interesting tidbit has come up. The Nevada Test Site seems to only have numbered areas from 1-26. No 27-50. I am trying to get more inormation on this. I had always assumed that the 51 was a reference to fallout grids.


posted on 29-7-2004 at 02:07 Post Number: 694375 (post id: 715069)
The Lawsuits

Each year since the Clinton Adminstration, the sitting president signs a law that in effect grants Area 51/Groom Lake and exemption from environmental laws. This is unique in that the base is only part of the US that is exempted. Part of this stems from lawsuits brought by families who's husbands died from some type of toxic exposure while working at Groom. If you look at the Russian sat. picture from 1967, you can see smoke comming from the south side of the base were an open pit is burning. The suits never went anywere because the courts ruled in favor of the governments ability to classify the area. The cases were Kasza v. Browner and Frost v. Perry. Below is a synopsis of the legal action against the Government regarding Groom.
hamburgsteak.sandwich.net...

And here is an actual copy of a exemption signed by Clinton
www.kool-breeze.net...

It is interesting to note that the presidential memo referres to the area as: the Air Force's Operating Location Near Groom Lake, Nevada. Not an actual name.

[edit on 13-8-2004 by ADVISOR]

Originally posted by FredT
The Department of Energy seems to refer to the base as "Area 51" the link is to a bad copy of a memo about Dead Cattle in "Area 51". Kind of have to wonder 1) how they got all the way there, and 2) what killed them?
www.geocities.com...

Also Kelly Johnson at the chalkboard from a clip taken from "Kelly's Way" a video they used to show at the Edwards Museum clearly shows a reference to Area 51
www.geocities.com...

So here is my name theory. Perhaps part of the security plan is that it does not have an offical designation. That would simplify denials. Each agency then has given the area its own "nickname" that would explain why there are so many?? What do you think?

[edit on 29-7-2004 by FredT]

Good theory! I never though of that, but it makes scense. If you want to hide something, why stick a big official lable on it? I think we 'll go with that unless something to the contrary turns up. So I guess it's a case of call it whatever you want to, it's the base at Groom Lake. Maybe the only offical designation is the radio call sign of the base's control tower: Dreamland. The reason I say that is Call Signs are standardized so everyone knows who's on the radio. What do you think if we list that as the "offical designation" ALONG WITH a note stating that it is a Call Sign and NOT an official name? I say that because federal regulations require all aircrafts and all ground stations to have a standard call sign for Air Traffic Control and ID Purposes. What do you think?

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

Originally posted by FredT
This document essential IMHO kicks the CIA out of the SIGINT business and installs the NSA. The NSA in turn has to be responsive CIA requests for info. Dated in 1976. It is reasonable to assume that the CIA would have to turn over any air based sigint assests it owned at the time. Perhaps this is the entry point of the NSA to area 51??

www.gwu.edu...

I think so! SIGINT is considered so secret that it has it's own classification system that Falls under the subgroup Sensitive Compartmentalized Information (SCI). SCI exists above the level of Top Secret. We know the NSA has air based SIGINT assets, usually flown by the CSS(see earilier posts). Where would you hide the most secret spy planes in the USA? Area 51 of course! with today's real time data links, there is no need to have a data processing facility out at Groom Lake, you can sent the data directly from the aircraft to NSA headquaters near Fort Mead in real time via. Satellite link. All they would need at Groom Lake is hangers and maintainence facilities for the planes, and that was already there!

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance