Do you Think,, That Animals love each other, as much as humans,(usually), love each other???

This post came about shortly after i lost a family pet... my Cat.. Azimuth..

he went across the street to see the wild-life around the lake, and a car got him... it crushed my wife.... and it hurt me..

but we had 2 cats,, his twin brother Zenith still lives and is the "Mighty-Mole-Hunter"

but i wondered,,,, because it seamed to me he went through a long (in cat years) melancholy..... about 2 months..

yes i could understand his noticing that his brother was not around ,,, but the forlorn attitude we all experienced,, was not all just for
US humans....


I've had Many animals over the years,, horses cows chickens,,cats,,, a dog or 3,,, and never did i really understand their "loss" when one of them Died ..

the animals understand each other,, know-- each other.. but do they "LOVE" each other??


Because we as Humans are sentient beings (self-aware), we can have an interpretation of instinctual responses and ascribe greater meaning to those instinctual responses we may witness.. so I become "flawed" as a witness and cant give a rational ---unbiased answer...

looking for Clues in the dark............

reply to post by darrman


I believe it's very possible, but like you say we might just be misinterpreting.

It certainly looks like love, though. Animals tend to exhibit pretty much all the same indications of various emotions, surprisingly often much like people do. Physiological responses are pretty similar as well, if I recall correctly.

I think animals deserve a lot more credit and respect than we tend to give them.

reply to post by darrman


i need to say,, we EAT some of our animals, when the time is right...

no,,,, not the cats,,,,, but in a farm way,, we well,,,, see my avatar..???

this spring after the state-fair,,,, he is passing on...... tastefully....

its as natural as the leather seats in your cars.....

First off,,,sorry for your loss

to answer your question,,,if im not mistaken many animals experience emotion (as evidenced by their behavior "crying", tail wagging,etc),,,so i would recon love and possibly hate for the matter is not outside of the realm of possibilty,,,for some creatures,,,IMHO of course

When an animal looks like it's morning. You can pretty much take for granted some sort of love.

I say animals know love similar to our love.

Bird species that spend their life time with a single partner like a parrot or Swan. When one of them dies it is not uncommon for the the other to die of grieve.

Killer whales, Chimpanzees, Dolphins all seem to very upset when their mate or calf dies.

In humans love is just as animal like. You never choose to fall in love it just happens or not at all.

Is love a brain thing? Does it take a certain intelligence to know what love is? This is a really good question you've asked.
I hit a rabbit one day while driving and when I came back through, minutes later, there was another rabbit sitting by the dead ones side. Needless to say this messed with me a bit and I wondered if the rabbit was actually grieving. It was bad enough I hit it but was another rabbit suffering from this loss?

I also have a black lab who absolutely adores me. She can't wait for me to get home and every time I move she is right with me. Is it because she actually loves me or is it because I would be considered the Alpha male in the family?

I hope they can love one another, it would be a shame to be alive and not be capable of love.

There is the grey area with a communications barrier. Some may say that after one animal dies, the other animal is now "sad". I do not so much agree.

Now let me first say, I am a hardcore animal lover. I will never hurt an animal. The cat and 3 kittens in my laundry room are my proof. Showed up one day, and no I can never let her (or any other living being) stay out in the cold and unfed.

With that said, I do not believe animals have a conscious. Animals have a very limited range of emotion based on instinct. What may seem like love or other "human" emotions, is just our human brains filling in the gaps of what we do not understand. The animal is just acting on instincts or repetition. An animal has no concept of time, or any vocabulary at all. It understands what the words sound like and relate it to what you say time and time again.

If a companion animal dies, then it notices the change in repetition. (Someone may say, "He/She seems lost). Thats because He/She is! Also your emotional display, sends the same message to the animal and it reacts with what it knows.

So do I think animals love each other? Only as much as they can. Considering "LOVE" is meaningless to an animal. I do not.

For me it does not turn me off to dogs or cats having this OPINION about animals. I still pretend they have their own little voices and act like I know what they would say. I still could not imagine my life with out having the affection I do for all life. I have put a lot of thought into this (thank you 10th grade english) I am 28 now. I think consciousness is a gift, but an attempt to understand life without it, to have a exact purpose in life but not be able to ever "know" it. The one quest we humans look for everyday, the animals have but can't know about it.

That's my 2 penny's worth. This is all just an opinion. I have never looked any further "factually" about this.


Great Topic BTW!!!

reply to post by MoosKept240


I agree about animals that actually have their own way of love. but there are also animals that are extremely conscience of themselves and their environment.

Having a purpose in life... yes but what is you purpose actually different from an animal. Passing on genes basically.

I think the biggest problem is that we are always comparing animals with humans. They are not human.
Just because we have an opposable thumb does not make us smarter it gives us the option to actually build what we think of.

Absolutely, you just have to see how happy they are when you come home. I expect there connection to love is a lot more pure than with us humans and our complicated lives.

reply to post by MoosKept240


i had a catfish that would flip-over and let me rub his belly,, i don't think he "loved me" he just knew i would feed him MORE, if i could "pet" him..

my horse ,, jelly-roll, knows when i come home.. but its when i come-over and see him,, and he hugs me with his neck.
i dont think he loves me either ,, he just gets some attention and i look forward to his ... but LOVE!!!????

heck,,, i don't know if I even LOVE my wife....!!

she feeds me when i get home, and i pretend to listen to her day..... is that really love?


still confused .......

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by MoosKept240

 

I agree about animals that actually have their own way of love. but there are also animals that are extremely conscience of themselves and their environment.

Having a purpose in life... yes but what is you purpose actually different from an animal. Passing on genes basically.

I think the biggest problem is that we are always comparing animals with humans. They are not human.
Just because we have an opposable thumb does not make us smarter it gives us the option to actually build what we think of.

What animals have extreme conscience of themselves? I would like to know, I am not closed minded I always like finding new stuff out. (that's why I am drawn to ATS )

I am not sure I would call reproduction a defined purpose. For some, that is not even possible. What purpose would those living beings have? Surely something right?

I do not find myself "comparing" myself to animals or pets. Maybe when I was a kid, thought how great it would be to lay around the house, instead of going to school. Although sometimes drunk at the camp fire, I do mock the animals sometimes with the opposable thumb thing .

I kinda more or less generalized my last post towards pets. Sometimes I am not the clearest. I do not post often.

reply to post by MoosKept240


post more MoosKept240,,,

you do fine..!!

I've never asked this question because I've always taken it for granted that they do love - love other animals and love humans too, to broaden the subject a little.

Another thing that comes to mind is loyalty. Many people accept that animals are loyal and I'd have to ask if loyalty isn't a part of love? I know that one can be loyal to a person without loving them - but I think love and loyalty can pretty much go hand in hand.

How do you feel when you are around an animal who loves you? There's a vibe, you just know that you are loved.

Some years ago I made friends with a neighbour's cat who used to drop in to visit. I was cuddling and stroking her and doing my best to demonstrate my affection for her. The cat was responding enthusiastically and rubbing against me and it suddenly occurred to me that she was trying as hard as I was to communicate love. And she had nothing to gain from me, I wasn't offering to feed her. We were just on the same wavelength and we loved each other.

What about mother love? Animals demonstrate that all the time. I've been watching the sheep snuggled up with their lambs over the past few weeks. Sometimes they lie in the sunshine, a lamb flopped up against it's mum, and it's so easy to pick up on what they're feeling. One evening I saw a mother sheep settle down with her lamb and I've been searching for words to describe what I saw. There was a sense of contentment and satisfaction, but more than that. As if everything in that sheep's world was right because she had her baby beside her for the night.

Small examples and, of course, many millions of people would have similar stories.

To focus more on the original question:

I'd go so far as to suggest that animals are capable of a quality of love that not all humans can achieve. My thoughts are that not being able to talk is no barrier for them when it comes to communication. I feel that they don't need to talk to each other because they are connected on inner levels that we can barely imagine, let alone access.

And that connectedness helps them or enables them to love.

****

I've had many pets and I always know when they genuinely love me or if they're just being affectionate because they're after something Not mentioning any names (cough)..see avatar..(cough)

It's not love per-say as we feel but it's apart of them that dies as well. They deal with it their own way but are affected by the loss.

It's a brotherhood, like if you lose a friend too soon, that creates a vacancy and the exact same thing happens to animals, especially if they grew up around one another.

When we humans are sad our animals instantly pickup on it and look to comfort us by wanting attention because they can feel our pain and emptiness and by wanting attention tells us that they feel the same pain we do.

It's like if your spouse or parent dies, those with animals bounce back faster because they have an animal who is excited to see you when you get home. Those without animals in the same position go home to an empty house.

No. Animals are smarter than that. They can read our minds. They know that you should never hold on to something so tight. Animals are like that. But they will usually always be there for you when you need them, unless of course it.s my Bi-Polar cat ! , she get's a little confused sometimes

reply to post by MoosKept240


Hi. I was not talking about people comparing animals with themselves, but the comparison of animal behavior with human emotion. I'm not as clear as I could be most of the time, no worries.

Especially the Cetacean family e.g. Bottle nose dolphin, Killer whale ( which exist from 3 separate species by the way and not just one) Whales... and so on are very intelligent. Killer whales actually have a bigger brain in comparison to ours, including the grey matter part . ( Its the place where we manage logic, reasoning, love etc.)

A thread about Killer whales :Orcas are more than one species, gene study shows, created by yours truly.

and.. anther on animal intelligence :Humans. Not so special after all ! Intelligence in animals and evolution ? ( watch the part with Alex the grey parrot. Astounding .

Don't feel bad for bumping them. I'd appreciate it

Since there's no way of ever knowing, does it really matter?

I really think they do love each other, and us humans as well. I have three dogs and they are the best of friends. When our oldest dog was at the vet for 2 days to be neutered, the other two moped around the house the entire time. When Pudgy (the pug) returned they were SO excited and even though they usually jump all over each other they were very gentle and nuzzly with him. One time the youngest dog (yellow lab) got out of the backyard and the middle dog (scottish terrier) went with her. The pug stayed behind and was barking his head off at the back door. When I finally went to see what his problem was I swear he was trying to warn me the other two were out.

We eventually found them (together) a block away. The scottie refused to leave the side of the lab (who was only a puppy) the entire time and even though his short little legs couldn't keep up with her long legs he tried his best!! The gate they got out sometimes comes undone in heavy winds, but the pug and the terrier have NEVER gone out it even though they've had a few opportunities. I truly believe the older scottie was trying to protect and keep the lab safe.

I will watch them at times interacting with each other..and sometimes they will walk over to each other and "kiss" each other right on the mouth (with tongues) in a very sweet gentle manner. Also, the pug suffers from horrible yeast infections and we always know when he's getting one in his ears as the lab will walk over and lick them.

I really do feel they love each other..and that love is unconditional. God I love my dogs!!!!

Michelle

I think it is foolish and anthropocentric to NOT anthropomorphise.

Seriously the biology of all mammal brains is similar and brain function of all vertebrates is still close. To assume that because we can use tools, have mastered language, and can utilize reason and logic (some of us anyway) that our instinctual emotions are not shared by animals.

Our emotions are not learned, so what makes us link them to sentience? Pretty much all human behavior that isn't learned I would imagine has similar drives in most animals.
This study shows animals have spiritual experiences or at the very least have similar brain patterns to those recorded during human spiritual experiences.

I firmly believe that this whole biology standard to not anthropomorphise is a throw back to the days when it was commonly believed animals are just put on the planet for our use. This is similar to Slave owners believing people of African decent are not human, it makes it easier to use a being you feel doesn't have the capacity to be hurt by it.

To me this is a VERY important point, and could easily shape how we treat animals and the world as a whole.

I am open to anyone who can show real evidence animals have no emotions outside of dusty old biology texts where they simply made an assumption with no proof.

Personally I've observed animal emotions many times... But I get told: "No no no you're mistaking it that animal can't feel..." I'm sorry if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck I'm not going to tell you you're looking at an elephant.

Edit: Forgot to add this:


Define how far along an animal has to be to have emotions? Anyone who says Koko wasn't genuinely crushed here is insane.

Something similar happened to me last week when one of my pet dog passed away.
The other one lives and it is behaving in an unusual way after the incident.


I think that animals love each other in the same way as humans do.