flood myths

This is something that has occured to me: almost every religion and civilization has a story where the god/goddess/gods and goddesses has decided to kill humanity with a flood. And there seems to be a little bit of repition. In Christianity, Noah builds a boat to survive the flood, and so does someone in the Sumerian religion with Ahura Mazda. Any thoughts?

Signing off,
HLW

Well, we know that Dino-Killer created a huge flood event, although it was 65 million years ago, and since hominids were only first standing on two legs 5 million years ago, it is hard to prove that this is what we are remembering as a race memory. (Although it would certainly be significant enough to create a huge impression in a race memory for millenia).

I agree that something significant in the way of a massive flood event happened in the past to create such an impression on humanity. Consider the Atlantis concept, as well as the story of Noah. There are also very interesting artifacts to back such stories up, such as boat docks high in the Andes Mountains, and several sunken structures off of Bimini. There is reportedly a complete file on Noahs Ark on Mt. Ararat compiled by the CIA from spy sattelite photography.

Realistically, I can offer at least two possible explainations. One is what many geologists consider to be the true explaination for the story of Atlantis. "Atlantis", as best as we can figure, was actually what is now known as the island of Santorini, off the coast of Italy. In the far past, it was known to be an active volcano, but was also known to have supported a thriving sea faring civilization. Approximately 10,000 to 20,000 years ago (dont remember the exact date off the top of my head) it erupted violently, litterally exploding, ripping about 50% of its mass off, destroying the entire population still left on the island (evidence suggests mass evacuation to the mainland before eruption) and sending a massive tidal wave across to the southern coast of Italy.

In addition to the above story, we have evidence that during the latest recorded massive ice age about 40,000 years ago, ocean levels dropped significantly to expose a land bridge between Siberia and Alaska, and likely exposed massive areas of the continental shelf (currently underwater). These areas would likely have been very fertile, very similar to our current plains states, and would have been a very likely hunting ground for any neolithic civilization at the time. Although current theory holds that the oceanic transgression would have been gradual, and any humans would easily have migrated before it, I believe it possible that a massive flood event (possibly from a massive arctic ice event of some kind, possibly a large ice dam failing and releasing massive amounts of melt water at high lattitudes) could have occurred. In this event, I believe it quite possible that large numbers of humans could have been caught off guard, leading to a collective race memory of a huge flood.

No, the civilizations that have flood myths, are only in lands such as Sumer, where the peoples lived in the flood plains, in a time before they knew how to build levis dikes and irrigation to help moderate the floods.

Basically, the flood stories are the oldest stories passed down in time, of natural disasters.

But it has nothing to do with some "global event" caused by aliens or G-d, when they say "all the cultures" have flood events, those people are leaving out a LOT of cultures.

For instance, the Romans and Greeks do not have flood stories, the Greeks never had, and the Romans eventually adopted one more for entertainment.

The flood events originate only from ancient peoples living in flood areas. The Egyptians also do not really have a "Flood story" since their floods were so regular, they never really wrote of one all encompassing disaster.

It's mainly a Sumer and Indus river valley problem. Chinese river valley too I believe.

No Greek myth tells of a great flood and only two surivived by sailing on a boat. I think Norse mtyhs had a tale but I could be wrong. The main area of these tales are in the Indus Valley area. But as a religious man I do belive there was a great flood for 40 days and 40 nights and I do belive in the tale of Noah. So I realy have to getr a scientiifc reason.

No where in Greek Myths have I seen this, it would be a later invention. For the Greek Myths such as "theologeum" never speak of any flood. Ever.

You'll have to point out directly and exactly where this "myth" is before I'll even consider it.

The Vikings have no Flood myth either.

however they do have a myth of "The Source of all Rivers". Which is a reoccuring myth in many societies, not even near rivers.

Which is puzzling, did our ancestors originate from a land where all the rivers seemd to flow from?

We know that most archaeologists will admit the occurence of a least a LOCAL flood, in their attempts to explain the existence of similar flood accounts in many different cultures. But recent archaeological discoveries point directly to an actual worldwide flood.
There was a special on this, in fact, on the History or Discovery channel recently. Check it out.

5POF and Dragonrider -
Do you have any links or actual facts to back up your assertions?


upward and onward

I have not found links to back up my "assertions" it is the scholar truth. Taught in any history or civilizations class you will take.

There is actually no evidence for a "world wide flood" within 10,000 years, unless you provide a research paper for us to look at.

As for the civilizations?

The Hebrew Bible is a composure of Sumerian myth and Egyptian beliefs with the Judeo beliefs, the flood in the bible comes from Sumer.

Sumer does talk about a man "Utnapishtim" that lives forever, and lived through the flood, unjustly cast upon the world in the early days, by Enlil.

The Greeks have no Flood myth in their creation stories (Theologeum by herodotus) and nor do the Romans.

The Vikings I believe don't, though I can't say I've looked too hard for them, I do know they have like many cultures a "Source of all rivers" that I think you'll find interesting.

I can't say much for the Yellow River Valley in China, but I think the peoples there do have a flood myth, which would make sense.

I know the Indus peoples do.

I don't believe but I haven't really read either, that many of the Native American People's have a flood myth, though many do say the world began as water, but this is the general consensus of almost all peoples, and it happend before people were created. So it would make no sense for them to write of events their ancestors experienced.

I'll say this though I've not looked into it either, that maybe a large portion of flood myths could have originated further north, from the early humans, leaving Africa or wherever they've determined now, finding themselves in Europe and North Asia, they would be exposed to the Glacial Melt of the Ice Age.

And maybe thus believe the world to mostly be water, and when the Ice Age receeded, these people move south once more, and plant themselves all over.

I won't say maybe there was a global event that caused the Flood Myths in several cultures.

But I'll tell you this, that global event could have happend in a place the size of New York, or England, because we still could have originated largely from one area. Hence the "Source of all rivers".

However my only real claim here, is my first one, not all ancient societies, in fact most ancient societies, have NO flood myths.

Hell Polynesians don't have any such myths at all (I can't remember what they specifically don't have, and what they specifically did have).

But it is evidence that the Myths are solely created from regional experiences, not from world experiences.

But as always there are possibilities, but as for all cultures of the world having a flood myth? No.

www.hellenism.net...

www.geo.aau.dk...

volcano.und.nodak.edu...

Some very interesting links that support the idea that Santorini was Atlantis.

whyfiles.org...

www.nps.gov...

www.thehallofmaat.com...

Some very interesting links regarding human migration and ice age sea level changes/habitation of a transarctic land bridge and exposed continental shelves.

There is good evidence to suggest that coinciding flooding did occur at the end of the last ice age, as the glaciers melted, and rather rapidly at that (though hardly in the course of a few days). Likewise, I remember reading flood myths of the americas as well as africans in addition to those in the fertile crescent. Its very likely that such flooding spawned these myths, imho...

Hate to say it, but there is a lot of evidence that points to a worldwide flood, or at least large local floods. Gazrok's right when he says that the Ice Age melts could spawned a giant flood, but so places would not have seen these floods, such as Africa. That kinda shoots down that theory.

Signing off,
HLW

There's no evidence of a world wide flood, and thanks...the "Glacial melt" idea was provided by me, not Gazrok. However, the Ice Age was so long ago, it doesn't make sense that it'd have had an effect on the human mind.

In my fullest knowledge, all flood myths come from ancient flood plains, such as the euphrates and the indus river valleys.

Ok, if there were only localized floods, then how do you explain the reports of a large wooden vessel sitting on top of Mount Ararat?

Or my favorites, the boat docks in the Andes? About the elevation of Denver, closest body of water over 150 miles away?

I can name off many many many geological features that point to sudden large scale flood events.

of course the Ancient Greeks had Flood Myths: search "Deucalion".
We're not exactly setting the intellectual firmament ablaze here, cyberchums, on this "by popular request" forum.

Ahura Mazda has absolutely nothing to do with Sumer (try Zoroaster, a 1,000 miles East, and 2,000 years later), "theologeum" isn't even possible as an Ancient Greek word -let alone a book - and Herodotus wrote the "Histories".
Yes, the Norse had flood legends (try Bergelmir) and the Egyptians certainly did.
There's a little, elementary, informed sanity here: www.louisville.edu...

Some of you don't seem to understand what is meant by "localized"... I don't mean something like the flood in Pensylvania's Wyoming Valley in '72, which was very much localized... I mean localized as in a few small countries were hit.

It is possible that with a flood on that sort of scale would have landed the Ararat vessel on that mountain. But, does that explain the huge range of Mediterranean(sp?) flood myths? Not really. It is thought that the landbridge between the Black Sea and the Mediterranean was breeched thousands of years ago, causing Zoroaster's(sorry, Estragen) flood myth, and the story of Noah as well. However, to have this hypothesis doesn't explain the American Indian flood stories. Seems like everything's gettin put down here.

And sorry, 5P. Last one I saw before posting was Gazrok's idea; didn't mean not to give credit where credit is due.

Signing off,
HLW

www.northern-ridaz.net...

"However, the Ice Age was so long ago, it doesn't make sense that it'd have had an effect on the human mind"

A bold presumption. Humans were around. Indeed, constantly having to migrate to avoid ever increasing floods (due to melting glaciers over the years) would certainly add to the "racial memory" of a global flood. However, this verbal handing down of the story could have easily been summarized as a sudden global flood, even though it was nothing of the sort... I'm sure the truth gets pretty twisted over 10,000 years, but that doesn't mean there isn't some basis in reality....

Estragon, only the Sumer, Judaic, and Indus river valley cultures had "flood myths".

I checked up on your Greek flood story, and it has to either be HORRIBLY translated or came about at a later date...

"The Greek flood myth relates how Zeus has feels that the people of Earth have become wicked and arrogant, and he therefore decides that they should be destroyed."

See for yourself...that right there in one sentence shows how crap your link is. Greeks did not have a sense of "Morality". Their gods simply did everything for "human reasons", like jealousy, or anger, never for morality.

Morality in our sense did not even pervade Greek culture until 400BC with Socrates.

Try again thanks...

Found this piece on the link listed below...very interesting......


www.hist.unt.edu...

"First, that the Flood was a real event around 13,000 years ago. Secondly that a culture survived and built the Pyramids, Sphinx and so on. And thirdly, that there is a missing link between 11000-4000 BC, where we cannot fully identify where this culture was based. That is where Antarctica comes in, because it was ice-free during this period. Then, around 4000 BC, when Antarctica froze over, we suddenly find signs of cultural transfer to other parts of the globe - to Mesopotamia, where the Sumerian civilisation began; to the tin mines of the Zagros Mountains; and to Tiahuanacu in Bolivia, which was almost certainly a centre for the production of bronze."