The plant that softens stone.

I saw this subject being discussed in the History Channels series 'Ancient Aliens'. Hancock talks about it in his book too.

The concept of softening stone was also discussed in relation to the construction of the Great Pyramid in Egypt. A guy demonstrated the technique on camera. He liquidized limestone then recast it in a mould where it then solidified into a block. He believes that the pits that were excavated near the construction site is where these giant moulds were placed. So the blicks were made on site, rather than being dragged from a quarry. That was the argument anyway..

reply to post by skjalddis


I cannot say plant but i know vinegar melts stone, maybe a bit slow but it still works.
Hope that helps.

We we are all so caught up in our materialistic world that we miss the great teachings of nature. When was the last time you observed an animal going about its daily business in the wild? It doesnt matter where you live, nature is all around us, so look outside today and see what you can learn!

reply to post by reticledc


Assuming the story is true, bird beaks are made out of Keratin. Keratin is a form of protein which is obviously much different than rock, also the birds could have adapted to the plant over time and become immune...if they were ever in danger from it in the first place.

Originally posted by Frater210
reply to post by skjalddis

 

I really love plants and I like to think of myself as a very well informed novice. Everyone with a field of interest typically narrows it down to 2 or 3 things that they know a lot about. Between a close friend and I we know a lot about weird plants and neither of us has heard of this. Neither has Google seemingly.

Maybe it would be more profitable to look in to the bird?

Thanks for the amazing story and a great thread.

I am also a plant-lover and I like to grow herbs and other plants that have traditional uses in folk medicine etc. So when I read about this plant it immediately caught my eye. If I can identify the species, and if it is a common plant that can be found in florists as the link that was posted earlier suggested (which unfortunately didn't give a name for it), then I may attempt a little experimentation with it. I've tried looking into the bird but I haven't found anything so far, but still looking.

peace
J

Interesting story!

Something to consider as well is the saliva from the bird.

It could be that the combination of the saliva and the plant fluid will be more powerful as the plant extract alone.

Originally posted by kdog1982
I found some stuff on the chelation process,which can dissolve metals,
en.wikipedia.org...

also this,softening stones with plant extracts
caniyoumyime.com...
And I'm still searching......

Excellent - that second link is exactly what I was looking for! Thankyou.

From the second link..

Amazingly, a recent ethnological discovery has actually shown that some witch-doctors of the HUANKA tradition remarkably, use no tools in the making of small stone objects, but in fact still use a chemical solution made from plant extracts to actually soften the stone material!

According to Dr. Davidovits, in a paper that was written by Dr. Davidovits, A. Bonnett and A.M. Marriote and presented at the 21st International Symposium for Archaeometry at Brookhaven National Laboratory in New York, USA in 1981:

“The starting stone material (silicate or silico-aluminate) is dissolved by the organic extracts, and the viscous slurry is then poured into a mould where it hardens. This technique, when mastered, allows a sort of cement to be made by dissolving rocks; statues which could have been made by the technique of the pre-incan HUANKA, by dissolution followed by geopolymeric agglomeration, are found to contain Ca-oxalate in the stone.”

The article states that they experimented and found a solution containing acetic acid, oxalic acid and citric acid the most effective and that large quantities of these could have been produced by the ancients using common plants such as "Fruits, Potatoes, Maize, Rhubarb, Rumex, Agave Americana, Opuntia, Ficus Indica and Garlic to name a few."

I definitely recommend anyone interested in this to read the short article in the second link above.

thankyou kdog1982

peace
J

Originally posted by IamVox
I saw this subject being discussed in the History Channels series 'Ancient Aliens'. Hancock talks about it in his book too.

The concept of softening stone was also discussed in relation to the construction of the Great Pyramid in Egypt. A guy demonstrated the technique on camera. He liquidized limestone then recast it in a mould where it then solidified into a block. He believes that the pits that were excavated near the construction site is where these giant moulds were placed. So the blicks were made on site, rather than being dragged from a quarry. That was the argument anyway..

Do you recall which of Graham Hancock's books it was in? I would like to have read of that. I don't have TV so I haven't seen the 'Ancient Aliens' series.

peace
J

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by skjalddis

 

I cannot say plant but i know vinegar melts stone, maybe a bit slow but it still works.
Hope that helps.

Interestingly, it appears that acetic acid was probably one of the components according to the article posted by kdog1982.

peace
J

reply to post by skjalddis


Vinegar is commonly used here in europe as a calcium deposits dissolver in households.

The tap-water around here contains a little calcium witch deposits in coffee-makers, or shower heads.. To clean it vinegar is used.

reply to post by skjalddis


That's awesome! If true, this would make total sense, and could be the missing puzzle piece in regards to the tight fitting stone architecture. I still wonder about how they lifted some monolithic stones in that region though.

reply to post by skjalddis


I think the plant you are referring to is the Poinsettia.

Great thread! This could very well explain how the ancients were able to create such large structures with precision joints. If you soften up the ends then stick them together they will dry as one. I also like the idea brought up that entire bricks can be formed on site instead of being hauled around. I would also like to know what Hancock book talked about this so I can read more on it.

As for the book that you found the original information in, "Lost City of Z" I believe...how is it? I've thought about reading this as well but haven't heard any reviews on it yet.

Well dug a little deeper and came up with the plant that was supposedly used

In an interview in 1983, Jorge A. Lira, a Catholic priest who was an expert in Andean folklore, said that he had rediscovered the ancient method of softening stone. According to a pre-Columbian legend the gods had given the Indians two gifts to enable them to build colossal architectural works such as Sacsayhuaman and Machu Picchu. The gifts were two plants with amazing properties. One of them was the coca plant, whose leaves enabled the workers to sustain the tremendous effort required. The other was a plant which, when mixed with other ingredients, turned hard stone into a malleable paste. Padre Lira said he had spent 14 years studying the legend and finally succeeded in identifying the plant in question, which he called ‘jotcha’. He carried out several experiments and, although he managed to soften solid rock, he could not reharden it, and therefore considered his experiments a failure.4 Aukanaw, an Argentine anthropologist of Mapuche origin, who died in 1994, related a tradition about a species of woodpecker known locally by such names as pitiwe, pite, and pitio; its scientific name is probably Colaptes pitius (Chilean flicker), which is found in Chile and Argentina, or Colaptes rupicola (Andean flicker), which is found in southern Ecuador, Peru, western Bolivia, and northern Argentina and Chile. If someone blocks the entrance to its nest with a piece of rock or iron it will fetch a rare plant, known as pito or pitu, and rub it against the obstacle, causing it to become weaker or dissolve. In Peru, above 4500 m, there is said to be a plant called kechuca which turns stone to jelly, and which the jakkacllopito bird uses to make its nest. A plant with similar properties that grows at even higher altitudes is known, among other things, as punco-punco; this may be Ephedra andina, which the Mapuche consider a medicinal plant.5

From this source

davidpratt.info...

reply to post by reticledc


Bird's tissue is either cartlige or a type of hair follicle like a rhino horn (other wise living tissue), rock is considered inanimate or "not alive" although some may argue this. The chemical exudated from the plant like many chemicals will only react with certain host chemicals..present in the rock but not in living tissue...nature still has its secerts...

reply to post by reticledc
I was going to bring up the exact same point. And how about the jar they found the liquid in? What material was that made of that the liquid had no effect on it. I double your hmm, sir.

reply to post by skjalddis


I posted this theory at least two years ago on a 'how the pryamids were built thread" I also state that the pyramids were built from the inside out not from bottom up ..this also has been specutlated by others since then.

Very good info. Thanks.

I'm familiar with this topic and lived in South America for many years. Yes, the story about how Incas used plants to soften rocks is very well known there.

It's hard to find any source to support this story, since it's seems to be one of the secret lost in time. But as far as I know it was a mixture of different ingredients, including one specific plant, as the main part of the formula.

reply to post by wtbengineer


Chemistry, chemicals react to others but not to all, synergism,,the right conditions..oxidation by heat and sunlight. many factors are required to "activate" a chemical process. How do we store the nasty acids, chemical agents that we have manufactored to date... with non-reactive substances... in this case ..a certain type of clay and sealed to avoid oxidation?
How was this first discovered...local shaman in the jungle after a rain storm..slips on a solid rock and removes a portion of stone that is soft as clay. He reconizes the plants that were laying on top of the stone...2+2= 4 evenually he copied the process.

reply to post by EarthOccupant


Much like another local traditional habit in Peru and Boliva, chewing Coca and or Bettlenut+ lime stone+ human salvia....coc aine hydrochloride in your mouth!