Would leaving Islamic countires alone solve our problem?

I've been reading a lot lately on here and I one opinion I see a lot is pulling out of Iraq and the Mid East would not stop terrorists from attacking or attempting to attack the US.

But I beg to differ. To function effectively, a terrorist organization must have the outright or tacit support of some percentage of the population in which it functions. Right now said organizations do have the support from the populace (sp?) because of the US involvment in Iraq and other areas of the Mid East. Your average muslim doesn't like that, and so aids terrorists by either subtle means or joining their cause himself. But if we were to completely, and I mean completely pull out of the Mid East, I think things would change. By pulling out I mean out of Israel, out of Iraq, out of trade sanctions,out of trade in general, and stop trying to make sure nobody is developing anything we don't want them to have. The only interference we would give is by request, like if Iran requested trade we would trade ON THEIR TERMS, even if it means getting the raw end of the deal.

So if we were to pull out, I think terrorists would lose almost all of thier public support because the average muslim would see no reason to provoke and attack a country that is doing nothing to them. It might take time, but it would happen. Most likely we would have to encourage European countries do follow suite to really be effective.

Nobody simply kills and attacks for no reason, no matter how crazy and illogical they might seem. Bin Laden had his reasons for Sept 11. If they have reasons they can be negociated with, at some level. (This paragraph is poorly articulated.)

We would also have to end support for Israel.

Nice idea NMS, too late, you can't put the genie back into the bottle. If that was thought about 2 or 3 years ago there may have been a chance for peace to reign. But after the Iraq way, it will never be the same again.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
We would also have to end support for Israel.

As I stated:

...out of Israel...

NetChicken, Iraq was a fiasco I agree. But it still might work. It will be painful, attacks will most likely happen, and it will atke at least 5 years, more likely 10 or 15 to really see a drop in public support.

Not even 2 or 3 years ago, but simply before we ent into Iraq. Hell, just after 9/11 would have been perfect. But no, our redneck gunslinging cowboy president had to go after the poor SOB, chase him all over a foreign country, and completely destroy our international credibility. Kerry should harp on that; our destroyed credibility. What's worse, he declared "dead or alive" (always a flair for the dramatic) and then failed to carry it out. I apologize for the rant.

Exactly. If the occupying powers of Iraq were to leave right now and hand over reign to the Iraqi people, things would perhaps get better than the situation is now. As we know, this is not going to be a reality any time soon.

In my reality, terrorism as it occurs in the United States is under control by the Elite. Example: 9/11. Terrorism never happens in the United States besides some conspiratorially backed one like 9/11, which makes the whole war on terror show generated.

What problem are you talking about solving now?

Muslims who know the koran well, know that it states that Islam is to take over the world. That is what is really going on. This is about that desire. It's as much of a spiritual war as it is a physical war.

There are extremists everywhere. Yes, a certain percentage (I would be incredibly surprised if it were the majority) of radical Muslims want a Holy War against the infidel to take place, but then again, on the other side you have a certain percentage (I would be incredibly surprised if it were the majority) of radical Hawks in the United States who want to drop the Bomb and be done with the Middle East.

Most Muslims are too busy scraping together a living (especially in Africa) to believe in nonsense such as a Holy War. Besides, a lot of Muslims are unassuming, down-to-earth people.

Originally posted by dbrandt
Muslims who know the koran well, know that it states that Islam is to take over the world. That is what is really going on. This is about that desire. It's as much of a spiritual war as it is a physical war.

Yes but historically Muslims are not ones who conquer. Who carried out the bloody crusades? Christians, out of jealousy and greed for what the muslims had. Who carried out a pre-emptive war on a middle eastern country? A christian nation with a "God-appointed" leader. If we leave them alone, they will leave us alone. If they were a crusading and conquering society, bin laden's call for jihad would have created a boiling region bent on swimming across the freaking ocean and fighting us tooth and nail down to the last man. Instead, they simply want us to leave.

IMMORTAL>elaborate please. I don't buy the conspiracy that bush was behind 9/11. Not yet anyway

Originally posted by Otts
Most Muslims are too busy scraping together a living (especially in Africa) to believe in nonsense such as a Holy War. Besides, a lot of Muslims are unassuming, down-to-earth people.

Right on. As has been pointed out before, there are millions of Muslims worldwide, with a lot, I'm sure, living in the United States. But where is the terrorism?--Is it under the couch?-no, Is it in the drawers?-no, turn to CNN, okay, there's the terrorism that's happening in America. The only terrorism you see is overseas on your TV, not on the United States homeland, besides the inside jobs like 9/11. Americans live under the illusion of terrorism at home, thanks to the media of terror.

Originally posted by NothingMakesSense
IMMORTAL>elaborate please. I don't buy the conspiracy that bush was behind 9/11. Not yet anyway

That's fine if you don't buy that 9/11 was an inside job. The problems that are occurring at "home" are not directly as a result of some Extremists abroad, most likely they are being brought into effect by the people who make foreign policy. It's the big boys in boardrooms all across America that create the problems. Everything starts with the Government "at home".

nothingmakessense - not to mention that even before the Ottoman Empire fell in 1920, the British, the French and the Germans were already active at creating protectorates. Countries like Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan et al were created by Western hands drawing arbitrary borders, not by Arabs.

I agree that most muslims don't know the koran desires world domination for Islam. Alot of muslims were forced to convert and did it to save their life. I always hear the 1.2 billion muslims in the world figure. But recently heard 1.6 billion quoted. Lets go with the middle 1.4 billion. Let's say 1% know what the koran says and plan to make this happen. If I did my math right that's 14 million muslims, how about .5%, that's 7 million muslims. How many did it take to freak out our nation on 9/11? 19.
7 million could do alot of damage. Plus I didn't say Islam will succeed, but I think they are trying. I don't know for sure because I'm still studying, but it's possible that they will try a major push(war of gog and magog from the Bible?) but this war is defeated. So I still say this is a spiritual and physical battle.

[edit on 27-7-2004 by dbrandt]

[edit on 27-7-2004 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by Otts
nothingmakessense - not to mention that even before the Ottoman Empire fell in 1920, the British, the French and the Germans were already active at creating protectorates. Countries like Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan et al were created by Western hands drawing arbitrary borders, not by Arabs.

Another case I missed. Thank you. Another example of how greedy and jealous christians are. From a relatively unbiased standpoint, Islam sounds like the way to go.....

dbrandt> WTF?? "19.8 million could do a lot of damage" where did that come from?Everything from that point on in your post kind of lost me. Please elaborate.

Heck...we could stand on our heads and it wouldn't do any good. they hate us and what we stand for and NOTHING is going to stop them from wanting our blood. Besides the Muslims want to take over the world and we are standing in their way!!

Originally posted by NothingMakesSense
[
dbrandt> WTF?? "19.8 million could do a lot of damage" where did that come from?Everything from that point on in your post kind of lost me. Please elaborate.

I didn't put enough spaces between my 19 and an 8. 19 was how many it took to freak us out on 9/11 and the 8 should have been a 7 as in 7 million.

Originally posted by NothingMakesSense
Yes but historically Muslims are not ones who conquer. Who carried out the bloody crusades? Christians, out of jealousy and greed for what the muslims had.

That's completely false. Islam took root in almost all of the lands it exists in now because of Arab imperialism. The Crusades were a response to the imperialist campaigns of the Moslem Turks in the 11th Century and that of the Arabs in the Levant, North Africa, and Spain in the 7th and 8th Centuries. Islam was born out of imperialism. Maybe they forget to teach that part in schools nowadays, seeking to demonize Christians while giving members of a so-called minority religion a free pass for their earlier and current atrocities.

Originally posted by NothingMakesSense
dbrandt> WTF?? "19.8 million could do a lot of damage" where did that come from?Everything from that point on in your post kind of lost me. Please elaborate.

He's making the same point I have made before, that even if the murderous terrorists are a minority in their religion, there are so many moslems that even if just 1% of all moslems were terrorists, that would still amount to a lot of people.

One of The problems with leaving the Arabs countries alone is the probabilities of radical muslin taking over the governments.

The second problem is that a large area of this Arabs country in the middle east are rich in oil, now put two and two together and if this radicals get to control the oil in their lands the rest of the world will be in a terrible trouble.

Now should we allow this to happen? or should the rest of the world just let these rightful owners of this lands in the middle east be able to control their resources.

Just my two cents.

Originally posted by NothingMakesSense

Who carried out the bloody crusades? Christians, out of jealousy and greed for what the muslims had. Who carried out a pre-emptive war on a middle eastern country?



Alot has been done in the name of christianity and by people who claim to be christians. The crusades were man's idea not God's.

I hope not, but I have a sick feeling in my gut that there is at least one muslim in the U.S. right now that's has the intent to be a suicide bomber here. If 1 muslim accomplished that in a major city and killed dozens(hundreds?), that would cause another stock market crash and inspire others to go and do more bombings. We have alot of major cities where winter comes. Hiding a bomb under a winter coat would go unnoticed until it was too late. Then everyone of middle eastern descent(even if they are OK) in cold climates with winter coats on would run chills through the people that saw them and increase the hysteria.