Reason why You SHOULD BELIEVE IN GOD

reply to post by infojunkie2


yes it has been refuted :

as pascals wager is claimed to be a logical premise , please logically demonstrate that you believe in the correct god

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by infojunkie2

 

yes it has been refuted :

as pascals wager is claimed to be a logical premise , please logically demonstrate that you believe in the correct god

Sorry, that's not a refutation, but a bit of silliness. There is one God, not many.
Vicky

reply to post by Vicky32


sigh , i guess you missed the caveat :

please logically demonstrate

so - once again - what is your evidence ?

Originally posted by bdb818888
reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes The one that fathered Jesus .The thing is, you can't prove he doesn't exist , I can't prove or disprove his existence , I believe he exist because of faith .

 

this is a fruitless thing, isn't it? it just doesn't work.
The burden of proof is one the one who postulates. You say there's a god, the "one who fathered".
You prove it. I don't have to prove since I didn't came up with the postulate. I can have a pretty decent live doing without inventing some imaginary friend, so I don't invent one, so I don't have to prove anything.

Of course you're free to "believe". Just don't mix it with logic or scientific explanation of reality.

Originally posted by NeverSleepingEyes

Originally posted by bdb818888
reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes The one that fathered Jesus .The thing is, you can't prove he doesn't exist , I can't prove or disprove his existence , I believe he exist because of faith .

 

this is a fruitless thing, isn't it? it just doesn't work.
The burden of proof is one the one who postulates. You say there's a god, the "one who fathered".
You prove it. I don't have to prove since I didn't came up with the postulate. I can have a pretty decent live doing without inventing some imaginary friend, so I don't invent one, so I don't have to prove anything.

Of course you're free to "believe". Just don't mix it with logic or scientific explanation of reality.

You can ramble on all you want ,you still can't prove it.

Originally posted by bdb818888

Originally posted by NeverSleepingEyes

Originally posted by bdb818888
reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes The one that fathered Jesus .The thing is, you can't prove he doesn't exist , I can't prove or disprove his existence , I believe he exist because of faith .

 

this is a fruitless thing, isn't it? it just doesn't work.
The burden of proof is one the one who postulates. You say there's a god, the "one who fathered".
You prove it. I don't have to prove since I didn't came up with the postulate. I can have a pretty decent live doing without inventing some imaginary friend, so I don't invent one, so I don't have to prove anything.

Of course you're free to "believe". Just don't mix it with logic or scientific explanation of reality.

You can ramble on all you want ,you still can't prove it.

edit on 21-4-2011 by bdb818888 because: keyboard

Thank you for your appreciation of my part of the debate, calling it "rambling"/
Once again (and last time, trust me): I don't have to prove anything. Those who claim, have to prove. Why is that so hard to understand, dear believer?

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by infojunkie2

 

yes it has been refuted :

as pascals wager is claimed to be a logical premise , please logically demonstrate that you believe in the correct god

Sorry, that's not a refutation, but a bit of silliness. There is one God, not many.
Vicky

says who?
According to those who took the effort to count (mind you, they are evil atheists who - imagine this!! - prefers to take a logical approach), people worldwide believe in over 3500 gods. So what makes you so sure at least 3499 do not exist, only yours does?

Originally posted by NeverSleepingEyes


says who?
According to those who took the effort to count (mind you, they are evil atheists who - imagine this!! - prefers to take a logical approach), people worldwide believe in over 3500 gods. So what makes you so sure at least 3499 do not exist, only yours does?

Er Ockham's razor?
It is what it is. In return, I ask you, what is your definition of God? By my definition there has to be only one of them...
Vicky

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by NeverSleepingEyes


says who?
According to those who took the effort to count (mind you, they are evil atheists who - imagine this!! - prefers to take a logical approach), people worldwide believe in over 3500 gods. So what makes you so sure at least 3499 do not exist, only yours does?

Er Ockham's razor?

It is what it is. In return, I ask you, what is your definition of God? By my definition there has to be only one of them...
Vicky

my definition of god: a mental concept used by people to deal with uncertainties.
But most of the time I go for George Carlins definition: an imaginary friend for adults.

Originally posted by NeverSleepingEyes

Er Ockham's razor?

It is what it is. In return, I ask you, what is your definition of God? By my definition there has to be only one of them...
Vicky

my definition of god: a mental concept used by people to deal with uncertainties.
But most of the time I go for George Carlins definition: an imaginary friend for adults.

As if that isn't a tremedously question-begging definition! No, Not accepted, sorry. Try again, and please come up with something less childish and sulky!

Because one will have a better and happier life if one believes in God and trys to be a good person.

A great many things can not be conclusively proved by logic although evidence for them may be proferred and considered. This is particularly true of the evidence for God.

It is up to the questioner to choose whether or not to believe the evidence; whether or not to accept the conclusion towards which it leads i.e. that God is - and is thus the Source of all that exists; and above all, whether or not such a monumental acceptance is to be followed by seeking consistently to know Him, to be guided by Him, and to labour in partnership with Him to heal the cosmos of which He is the Author.

Because God is so infinitely greater than any conception of Him may be, I find that it is quite reasonable to be agnostic; but not knowing all - or even the tiniest bit of all there is to know about Him - does not preclude knowing HIM, gratefully acknowledging what one does know and building and orienting one's life according to that knowledge.

To choose to be an atheist is, by the way, also a choice of faith: just as one can never find conclusive evidence for His being - because one must always choose, so also one can not find conclusive evidence for His NOT being. So one chooses.

It seems much more consistent with our daily experience of life, in which there is always some cause or source for things we see and experience, to choose to accept that there is a Source and Cause for all that is, i.e. God, however one may choose to call Him/Her/It/Them, than to say it all starts from nothing, is ordered by nothing, and goes nowhere.

Such a choice does not seem to be directed by reason, but by prejudice - perhaps due to some disappointment about how things go, perhaps due to unanswered prayer, perhaps due to having been wounded by some person who professed faith and acted or spoke in a way that was not consistent with that faith.

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by NeverSleepingEyes

Er Ockham's razor?

It is what it is. In return, I ask you, what is your definition of God? By my definition there has to be only one of them...
Vicky

my definition of god: a mental concept used by people to deal with uncertainties.
But most of the time I go for George Carlins definition: an imaginary friend for adults.
As if that isn't a tremedously question-begging definition! No, Not accepted, sorry. Try again, and please come up with something less childish and sulky!

My definition of God and reality is different. My concept is not dealing with uncertainties, but with the relative certainties of theoretical physics as we currently know them.

The imperfection in us is necessary. God is at rest. We are becoming as God is. If there is to be a we, then we can't be God or there is (not are) two perfections at once. That is a perfect image and makes God two. God is one. For Him to Create us, he starts with a point. That's Him, the infinity of possibility at rest. This is just a simple analogy, so hold on. Matter is created from the second point, forming a line. Move that line now and you get a plane. The plane is created one slice at a time as it moves. Now create cube, expanding from all sides of the plane and you have slices again in three dimensions. From these three dimensions, we get form of all types. Now move that form and you get a slice of time. The form moves by possibility, just as the form was created from possibility. Although we are connected to God as the first separate point, our point had to be less than Him to be different. Think of all of this happening at one time by the process of light and wave. Particle and wave duality is what makes up light. Each particle has an associated wave. A galaxy is a toilet that flushes backwards at first, then rolls back on itself creating form by streaming data as it drains back to the source. As above, so below. One side of the universe, through an opening between, then back again. Zero point of infinity in the middle.

Now you get deeper into the process. The particle and wave is streaming data that works from the first dimension out through all the dimensions. As it produces form in the simple process above, we get layers of structure in a fractal. Again, this is simplified as a symbol. If there were second dimensional creatures, they see the second dimensional plane unfold a slice at a comparative time. The third dimension sees the slices of the fourth dimension of movement. Movement is the key. To create form, there must be movement in counter-motion to the first fixed dimension in a vortex. The spin we see display in the golden ratio and in DNA is evidence of the double helix pattern used by the wave to form matter. You only see a slice of everything that exists. There is another half. Google 'tree of life' and then look at the tree and the roots below. It all starts below and then streams up to infinity in forms that come from infinite possibility by collapsing wave function (best analogy we have). All of this arises from the other side where all possibility and infinity is at rest, in all states possible at once. We are merely a reflection of that in parts. We define this as imperfection. On the other side, we are a complete sculpture. Our consciousness merely rides the wave of possibility. It's always now.

But wait, there's more. Entropy heads to decay and disorder. Consciousness, which is directly connected to the original state of infinity at rest, is able to move back against the flow of imperfection to realize this movement back as a journey. The laws that govern the process are set to react when you act, keeping you on a path of movement against death and decay, while the body is used up along the way. This is what we see as punishment. Reward is what we see when we achieve back-flow. Providence is what we call chance. This is the designer from the state of rest acting through the state of imperfect possibility. God, the governor of it all. Love, the state of rest. Hope, the movement back to Love.

Read 1 Corinthians 13. Read Genesis 1 (Light). Read John 1 (Wave). Read the Bible for all it's worth.

reply to post by MrJelly


Why do you keep embarrassing yourselves, if you use "logic", at least make it logic, you arbitrarily assigned numbers to equations with no numeric values

Faith is such a funny thing. It allows you to believe in, worship, and praise an imaginary being. In some instances, it even allows you to kill another person who doesn't share your faith. However, if you claim to see or speak to a "grey", or believe that you see ghost's, or fear that goverment is trying to take over the world, well then, you're concidered insane.

As pointed out by someone earlier, there are over 3500 different variation of "god", each with their own set of rules and regulations, and each claiming to be the ONE TRUE GOD!! Some of these faiths even date back 10's of thousands of years (far older than all of the Abrahamic Faiths in question here) and still not a single shread of viable, concrete proof of their existance. How anyone can continue to support such entities in this day and age is beyond me.

I like to look at this way, if god does exist, within the vast incomprehensible scope of the universe, then what arrogance does humanity carry to believe that god truly cares for such an insignificant speck of dust floating through the cosmic void.

reply to post by amaster


I think many people started to believe after they had their time with Bible,give it a shot,you can't lose.It is really important for us to use our own minds,or else we can easily be controlled(i think Vatican is the lair of the beastXD).
I hope you will come to the same conclusion as me,that only love matters.

Peace,David

p.s. i don't understand all these people trying to debunk God,what can you possibly gain?Don't feed your illusions that you can get away with your sins,everything comes to list...

Originally posted by AlwaysStoned
reply to post by amaster

 

I think many people started to believe after they had their time with Bible,give it a shot,you can't lose.It is really important for us to use our own minds,or else we can easily be controlled(i think Vatican is the lair of the beastXD).
I hope you will come to the same conclusion as me,that only love matters.

Peace,David

p.s. i don't understand all these people trying to debunk God,what can you possibly gain?Don't feed your illusions that you can get away with your sins,everything comes to list...

13 years of Catholic education and 15 more in the search for the truth has been more than enough "bible time" for me to decide that the BOOK was created to control people. Sure the underlying message is good and deserves it's place in society, but the method by which it is delivered is faulty and corrupt and the church is (as you perfectly stated) at fault.

The only thing that matters to me is my family.

And it's not about debunking god, its about debunking the insitution of religion. I don't think you could find to many rational people who could deny that some force, be it natural, cosmic, or divine, started it all. Call it what you will, God, Mother Nature, Allah, Pan, Gaia, The Big Bang, Evolution, Jesus, etc, its all the same. But the religious faiths and institutions created by man to control those who believe and punish those who do not is the false sytem that needs to be brought down.

reply to post by amaster


I have heard somewhere in the past that catholic church has reduced the Bible and keeping substantial information witch if you think simple is not that fa fetched.I think catholic church is pure evil and has nothing to do with God.

You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Exodus 20:4
Blasphemy anyone?
Anyway i think we should all respect God and the Bible and not the priests or the governments of this world.