Your Questions on Christianity Answered

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree

Originally posted by templar knight

You shouldn't feel sympathy. God doesn't ask for your sympathy. God asks for you to understand what He has done out of love for you. He gave His one perfect son, so that you and all the rest of us(His imperfect children) can come back to His loving embrace. (See: the prodigal son)

A2D

HAHAHH!!! If thats not the biggest slap in face of humanity by god, then I don't know what is. HAHA!! Jesus always was his favorite kid, we're just his bastard step kids. You know, the "imperfect" ones. Sure, he could have made us all perfect, like Jesus, but where would the fun be in that. Who then could god unleash his vengeful rath upon? HAHAH!!

Originally posted by SorensDespair

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
reply to post by SorensDespair

 

So what you're essentially saying is that the bible is not believable.
I can go with that.

Depends on what you mean by believable. If you want to use it as a scientific textbook, then I think you're doing it wrong. If you want to use it as a history textbook, then I think you're doing it wrong. If you want to read its parables and apply them as a way to live life, that's not so bad (provided you understand the cultural context and adapt it appropriately to modern culture).

If you have to adapt it, then doesn't prove to be a very good source of human ethics or a consistant "guide" to live life.

It was clearly the thoughts of men at the time, and now they do seem out of date. I'd sooner find greater examples of moral behavior or ethical/cultural understanding in a sci-fi novel.

So far - the bible has proven to be historically inaccurate, scientifically incorrect (or shown a lack of scientific ability) and because of the morally reprehensible ideas within, it has proved to be ethically detestable. So i ask, why are people putting faith in such a doctrine? What's so great about it?

Surely you can't condone and idea just because there are SOME valid or meaningful points within. i.e. Why would that make a concept a good thing for humanity.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


The US constitution is constantly being adapted to fit the needs of today's culture. Culture changes and evolves, so religion must (and always does) do the same. There really aren't that many reprehensible acts committed in the new testament (aside from martyr texts), which is what we're looking at if you want to discuss Christianity. Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, which means that OT stuff is now old news. If you'd like to discuss how it was interpreted that he come to fulfill it, it would be my pleasure.

Originally posted by amaster

Originally posted by ShakeNBake

Originally posted by amaster

Originally posted by ShakeNBake

Originally posted by amaster
Please explain why "god" would create a world full of "his children" with the intentions of testing thier faith in him by constant oposition in the hopes that they prove thier love for him through unending devotion? I don't know about you, but I would NEVER treat my children like that. I mean, if love, devotion and obediance is what he wants, then why were the angels not enough to stroke his ego? Instead, he had to create us, his toy.

Adam and Eve were tempted by Satan. They ate from the tree which God told them not to. That is why our faith is tested. If Adam and Eve never bit the apple, we would be genetically perfect, and the world would be perfect.

And God created Satan to temp people. So from the very start, God knew the outcome.

Would you give you child a knife to play with? No, because you know he or she would cut themselves.

Satan or Lucifer was an angel. He had free will and he chose to rebel against God. Lucifer was his best angel until he rebelled. Know the facts before you post.

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! I was born and raised catholic, spent 12 years of indoctonation in the catholic education system and have spent countless hours of independant study on the history and theology of christianity. And in EVERY instance it is mentioned that Angels and Archangels have NO FREE WILL!!! They can only act on Gods Command. Read the temptation of Job by Satan and you will clearly see that he cannot act freely. Satan (as his name implies) was God's Accuser. He was the angel in charge of deliberatly temping mankind to prove their love and faithfulness to God. Since angels can only act on gods word, then only god could make Satan rebel. So, excuse me, but know YOUR facts friend!!

Regarless of that, You still failed to answer my question. Why would god create a place, fill it with his children, and deliberatly temp them. God made the Angels perfect, he could have made you perfect, but instead, he chose to make you failable, and set the world in opposition to you.

Perform an experiment for me. Take two children, and place them in a room full of every toy imaginable. Then, in the middle of the room, place two fully loaded and cocked shotguns. Tell the kids they can play with anything they want, but they cannot touch the shotguns. Then, place in the room with them, a talking puppy dog, with a cunning tounge to temp the children towards those forbidden shotguns. How long do you think it will take? Oh, and then punish every child born after them for what they did.

You're god has one sick sense of humor.

Where in the Bible does it say that angels have no free will? Catholicism is not Christianity.

reply to post by ShakeNBake


Psalm 103:20-21 [20] "Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word. [21] Bless ye the LORD, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure."

The gift of free will is not expressly stated, but thier utter obediance to god is. They can not rebel, unless god allows them to.

And still, you have avoided answering my question.

reply to post by ShakeNBake


Well catholicism by definition is Christianity
Christianity is the belief that jesus died to save us from our sins and the only way to the father is though him.
so it might be a perverted form of it, but it still is.

reply to post by SorensDespair


I understand that religions reform themselves. But many do not. And true believers (fundamentals, i.e. Westboro Baptist Church) actually are consistant with their beliefs.(That's about the only compliment i can give them).....

They believe the original doctrines are the word of God, they won't disbelieve some parts because it suites them better in society.

You either agree with a specific doctrine on homosexuality (or any other idea) or you have amended that religion, and made a new one. This kind of customisation is hypocracy of the worst kind. If God's ideas are so prone to change, then why do we call him/her/it God? He seems incomptetent.

Epicurean Paradox (or "The Problem of Evil")

Euthyphro dilemma

And not all religions reform. Take Islam - It's core doctrine has an abundance of prejudice aimed towards non-believers, that in some passages, even declares wars on the non-believers or the "Kufirs".

This kind of exclusivity causes prejudice. Of course, if i were to believe a doctrine was the word of the creator of the universe- then i would regard a disbeliever as sub-human - Because they're not doing the "will of God"

That's why apostasy is punished with death in some Theocratic states in the middle east. It's very easy to understand how a simple set of beliefs with many years of enforcement can cause serious prejudice and serious harm to others.

PS. Oh and the constitution protects the Westboro Baptist Church if they would like to protest at soldier's funerals and call them "fag enablers" and stating they will burn in hell. They won their court injuction.

Originally posted by naeem11111

Well then, you agree it has been used to control men time and time again and don't you mean inspired by Caesar?

Yes I agree that it has been used to control men. People misuse and abuse things all the time.
Inspired by Caesar, no.

Question time. True or false
The ten commandments is used to promote war, slavery, taxation and border expansion.
Constantine used the early Christians to create his empire because their were willing to matyr themselves.
The Bible is made up of different books, all which are made up, as it was written long after Jesus of Nazareth died therefore it can't be "the Words of G-d."
-Naeem

edit on 20/4/2011 by naeem11111 because: more questions

edit on 20/4/2011 by naeem11111 because: (no reason given)

False

Man's desires are used to promote war, slavery, taxation and border expansion.
Constantine used the early Christians as a tool to accomplish his own desires. They were simply his little scapegoats. If things go wrong, Constantine gets to push the blame on the shoulders of Christians, just like any modern war that claims Christianity at its core. Religion is a big shield wielded by politics in these cases.

As far as the bible, you're putting a time constraint on the Word of God, whereas God works outside the constraints of our time. (ie He works on His own time, which doesn't necessarily make sense to us)

A2D

Originally posted by amaster
HAHAHH!!! If thats not the biggest slap in face of humanity by god, then I don't know what is. HAHA!! Jesus always was his favorite kid, we're just his bastard step kids. You know, the "imperfect" ones. Sure, he could have made us all perfect, like Jesus, but where would the fun be in that. Who then could god unleash his vengeful rath upon? HAHAH!!

No, it's not a slap in the face. We WERE created perfect. We're the ones that messed up and fell from grace. Thankfully, God didn't just leave us down in the pits, but He gave us a way to get back to perfection.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree

Originally posted by amaster
HAHAHH!!! If thats not the biggest slap in face of humanity by god, then I don't know what is. HAHA!! Jesus always was his favorite kid, we're just his bastard step kids. You know, the "imperfect" ones. Sure, he could have made us all perfect, like Jesus, but where would the fun be in that. Who then could god unleash his vengeful rath upon? HAHAH!!

No, it's not a slap in the face. We WERE created perfect. We're the ones that messed up and fell from grace. Thankfully, God didn't just leave us down in the pits, but He gave us a way to get back to perfection.

Look, I don't want to sound like an ass, but you're so brainwashed that you don't even recognize you're own contradictions. How, in one sentence, can you say that god made us perfect, and then in the very next say that we messed up? Thats the same as saying that god is pefect, but can make a few mistakes from time to time.

Seriously, I hold no grudge against you or anyone else for their personal beliefes, and I certainly hold no dillusions that I would every sway you away from them, even if I wanted to. I just have a difficult time comprehending how people can have such profound blind faith in something that has been historically altered by the hands of so many corupt men. Be it the 1500 year old religion of Islam, the 2000 year old religion of Christianity, or the 4000 year old religion of Judaism, Humanity still far outdates it.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
Man's desires are used to promote war, slavery, taxation and border expansion.

And therefore religion is used more than any other method, as history has shown, to succeed in those desires mentioned above. I can prove to you that the ten commandments promote all this.

Constantine used the early Christians as a tool to accomplish his own desires. They were simply his little scapegoats. If things go wrong, Constantine gets to push the blame on the shoulders of Christians, just like any modern war that claims Christianity at its core. Religion is a big shield wielded by politics in these cases.

So you do agree that religion is a tool to control humanity.

As far as the bible, you're putting a time constraint on the Word of God, whereas God works outside the constraints of our time. (ie He works on His own time, which doesn't necessarily make sense to us)

Personally, I do believe that their is a source of unlimited potential which is becoming, through a student-teacher method, and with this I agree that there is no time as it does not exist for THE architect. But it must be noted, the Bible was written a long time after the death of Jesus of Nazareth by authors, who thought what took place.

-Naeem

Originally posted by amaster
Look, I don't want to sound like an ass, but you're so brainwashed that you don't even recognize you're own contradictions. How, in one sentence, can you say that god made us perfect, and then in the very next say that we messed up? Thats the same as saying that god is pefect, but can make a few mistakes from time to time.

Seriously, I hold no grudge against you or anyone else for their personal beliefes, and I certainly hold no dillusions that I would every sway you away from them, even if I wanted to. I just have a difficult time comprehending how people can have such profound blind faith in something that has been historically altered by the hands of so many corupt men. Be it the 1500 year old religion of Islam, the 2000 year old religion of Christianity, or the 4000 year old religion of Judaism, Humanity still far outdates it.

You don't understand because your understanding of "perfection" is skewed. We were created in perfection, meaning without sin.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Created in perfection? Can you prove this theory? Can you refute the evidence showing the contrary?

There's no denying that we are all half a chromosome away from chimpanzees. Natural selection has taken many of our species as we developed throughout history.

Some studies indicate that human population could have been as lower as 2,000 in the past.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Quite interesting observing evidence, instead of pretending we're all apart of some gruesome creation story.

reply to post by naeem11111

I can prove to you that the ten commandments promote all this.

Please do... The 10 commandments are about love and nothing else, so i'd love to see you prove this...

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

Created in perfection? Can you prove this theory? Can you refute the evidence showing the contrary?

There's no denying that we are all half a chromosome away from chimpanzees. Natural selection has taken many of our species as we developed throughout history.

Some studies indicate that human population could have been as lower as 2,000 in the past.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Quite interesting observing evidence, instead of pretending we're all apart of some gruesome creation story.

Technically its not a theory, everything in creation is perfect... its only our words and actions that are flawed.

If you need proof, look at the structure of the universe... Or if you like something a little more realisitic, look at the structure of our bodies....perfection in the very sence of the word.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

Created in perfection? Can you prove this theory? Can you refute the evidence showing the contrary?

There's no denying that we are all half a chromosome away from chimpanzees. Natural selection has taken many of our species as we developed throughout history.

Some studies indicate that human population could have been as lower as 2,000 in the past.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Quite interesting observing evidence, instead of pretending we're all apart of some gruesome creation story.

edit on 21/4/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

Oh really? Did you know Chimps and Tobacco both have 48 chromosomes? I guess they're twins according to your theory.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


I'm sorry that you have doubts.

I'm not trying to prove I'm right but just say what I believe.

The evidence I have is trying to live 12 simple rules that God gave us and seeing how following those rules provided a me a better life. . It's far from a perfect life but it's better life. It's first hand knowledge that you could have if your willing to try.

The rules are just commonsense advice that people have trouble following for thousand of years.
If they did it would be easy to see that life would be a lot better.

I have noting against other realigns.

But detachment for me was like having a Guitar with no strings, you can't play music. That's why Buddhism didn't appeal to me.

I could be wrong, like you, but if I am what am I going to lose.

If your whole gripe with God is with all the Hippocrates who go to church to condemn others.

Then get a Bible, close the door to your room, and pray. Don't tell any one.

As an Agnostic your not sure. Please make an genuine effort to find out.

What do you have to lose that so valuable? Your tricked or where wrong. If you lived more that 3 years on this planet, I'm sure that already happened to you and you survived.


Worst case you'll learn a bit more history and follow some commonsense advice.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree

Originally posted by amaster
Look, I don't want to sound like an ass, but you're so brainwashed that you don't even recognize you're own contradictions. How, in one sentence, can you say that god made us perfect, and then in the very next say that we messed up? Thats the same as saying that god is pefect, but can make a few mistakes from time to time.

Seriously, I hold no grudge against you or anyone else for their personal beliefes, and I certainly hold no dillusions that I would every sway you away from them, even if I wanted to. I just have a difficult time comprehending how people can have such profound blind faith in something that has been historically altered by the hands of so many corupt men. Be it the 1500 year old religion of Islam, the 2000 year old religion of Christianity, or the 4000 year old religion of Judaism, Humanity still far outdates it.

You don't understand because your understanding of "perfection" is skewed. We were created in perfection, meaning without sin.

I'm sorry, I thought perfection was perfection. So you're tell me that we are created perfect, but born imperfect, i.e. with sin? All because some chick supposedly ate an apple 6000 years ago.

The adherence of unrelenting faith is one that I will never comprehend. Please, do me a favor, should you die before me and happen to be right, put in a good word.

reply to post by Akragon


Define "Perfection"

Tell that to all of the species who have become extinct due to unbeneficial mutations that won't allow them to adapt to their enviroment. 99.8% of all of species of earth - DEAD, GONE. Talk to an microbiologist about "perfection"

I guess it's perfect as reality is, as perfect as the Andromeda galaxy being on a collision course with our own; all life imminently DEAD.

Perfect. Just Perfect.

look at the structure of the universe

Ok? So what? Top physicists and astronomers can look at the universe without their conclusion leading to "God did it" BTW, More than 80% of leading scientists are non-believers, many of which are Atheists, and some "Spiritual" Atheists. Not that i'm suggesting appeal to majority is a reasonable argument.

Observing the universe doesn't require a belief in God, and by no means does the nature of the universe imply an omnipotent dictator being.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Akragon

 

Define "Perfection"

Tell that to all of the species who have become extinct due to unbeneficial mutations that won't allow them to adapt to their enviroment. 99.8% of all of species of earth - DEAD, GONE. Talk to an microbiologist about "perfection"

I guess it's perfect as reality is, as perfect as the Andromeda galaxy being on a collision course with our own; all life imminently DEAD.

Perfect. Just Perfect.

edit on 21/4/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

Perfection is simple, if every living organisim wasn't perfect they would cease to exist. Their natural systems are perfect, they way they live is perfectly in line with nature. Our bodies are the same, perfect living beings. Look at a flower, watch a bird or even an ant. They live perfectly in their environment...

Look at our solar system... The planets are perfectly placed so as they don't slam into each other... the moon is perfectly placed where in won't collide with earth.

Perfection is in everything, its easy to see if you look.