Your Questions on Christianity Answered

We don't need an atheist answering questions directed to a christian. I'm an atheist myself, but I'm asking this christian why they believe as they do, I want to know if they are even aware of some of the church doctrine that keeps people subjugated.

Most "christians" base their entire existence (eternal??) on a book which they have not read, yet they will condemn others in a nano-second.

I for one don't need, nor do I want your opinions on the matter Akragon.

Savy?

reply to post by Akragon


If a God does exist, which you admit you cannot prove, how can you discern what moral stance God takes on any given action? How do you know?

If you digress in discussion of the God within the bible, then i'm interested to know how you access each moral decision? For instance, How God advises you of what's "right"? The process behind it.

Originally posted by BigBrotherBear
We don't need an atheist answering questions directed to a christian. I'm an atheist myself, but I'm asking this christian why they believe as they do, I want to know if they are even aware of some of the church doctrine that keeps people subjugated.

Most "christians" base their entire existence (eternal??) on a book which they have not read, yet they will condemn others in a nano-second.

I for one don't need, nor do I want your opinions on the matter Akragon.

Savy?

edit on 21-4-2011 by BigBrotherBear because: (no reason given)

Im not an atheist either, i mearly offered an answer and again...i could care less if you accept it.

Next time you ask a question i won't bother trying to answer.

An omni-perfect (defined by myself as: omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent) being cannot possibly make a mistake, nor can he/she change his/her mind for it would already know from time immemorial that it was going to make that mistake and just not make it; yet, the Judeo-Christian God said that "It repented him that he had made man upon the earth". To repent (according to the christian theology) means to turn away from a MISTAKE which you have made.

An omni-perfect being who created original sin, knew man would break his commandments, sacrifice himself, to himself, to appease a rule, he himself created is not a being I would ever worship.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Akragon

 

If a God does exist, which you admit you cannot prove, how can you discern what moral stance God takes on any given action? How do you know?

If you digress in discussion of the God within the bible, then i'm interested to know how you access each moral decision? For instance, How God advises you of what's "right"? The process behind it.

I actually didn't say i can't prove the existance of God...though its true i can't prove it to you. I've already found my proof, and to tell you the truth, no one can prove the existance of God to another. You have to prove it to yourself if thats what you're looking for. Seek and ye shall find

Morality is a simple process, every single person on this planet knows whats right and whats wrong, the bible just reinforces those moralities (no not all of the bible) Now wether or not you chose to follow your feelings is a different story.

Listen to your heart and your conscience, it comes natural if you express love in all you do.

reply to post by BigBrotherBear


Corinthians 1 and 2 was written by Saul, who then became the Apostle Paul. One of the things that Paul mentions in Corinthians is that he makes distinctions between what he believes is God's opinion manifested through him and his own mortal opinion - which he believes is ordained to be correct. To clarify this, he states in the same paragraphs words along the lines of "This is the message God has given to me to tell you [insert message here], and this message is from my own opinion of what I believe to be true[insert his perspective of women in church here] since I'm spiritually right with God."

Same with Timothy. What can we conclude with this? Well, call me a radical, and sure to upset some Fundies, but short of these two men claiming it is the word of God spoken to them - it is merely their own misogynistic opinions as a reflection of a patriarchal society. And not the word of God, for "God made them both male and female," and "in our image, after our likeness."

reply to post by BigBrotherBear


"The Problem of Evil" - The idiocy of an omnipotent God theory.

Epicurean Paradox (Problem of Evil)

In the philosophy of religion, the problem of evil is the question of how to explain evil if there exists a deity that is omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient (see theism).[1][2] Some philosophers have claimed that the existences of such a god and of evil are logically incompatible or unlikely. Attempts to resolve the question under these contexts have historically been one of the prime concerns of theodicy.

The same applies to those who've claimed "reality is pefection" therefore "God exists".

Well what kind of God would create parasites, disease? He must be evil himself if he is unwilling to prevent parasitic species like these. Perhaps a little bias on my homo-sapien part. But what intelligent, caring being would create a construct where living beings fight for survivall. Everyone wishes for a perfect "world"

A God that has rendered 99.8% of all species that ever existed on earth - DEAD, EXINCT, NO MORE. Again, perfect little omnipotent theory you all gots goin tharrrrrr

I actually didn't say i can't prove the existance of God...though its true i can't prove it to you

I'm too closed minded i guess. I think similar Psycics and Fortune Tellers have had a similar sort of response to my questions. Sometimes suggesting "my energy" wasn't right. Haha.

I agree with your point that humans are naturally empathetic and an emotional species. And a simple enough "golden rule" of "not being a dick" is cohesive enough to understand for most people.

You believe in objectivity right? Objective morality? If so, why?

But again, i want your explanation of why you, personally, believe in God (and possible objective morality). I've explained myself. I'm just interested. Experiences, logical arguments on why your definition of a God might exist, or why you feel it exists to you.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Post save in which I will edit once I re-type what was lost due to server crash. Much frustration.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

I actually didn't say i can't prove the existance of God...though its true i can't prove it to you

I'm too closed minded i guess. I think similar Psycics and Fortune Tellers have had a similar sort of response to my questions. Sometimes suggesting "my energy" wasn't right. Haha.

I agree with your point that humans are natural empathetic and caring. And a simple enough theory of "not being a dick" is cohesive enough without complicating things.

But again, i want your explanation of why you, personally, believe in God. I've explained myself. I'm just interested. Experiences, logical opinions on why your definition of a God might exist.

edit on 21/4/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

Unfortunatly because of the "type" of people we have on these forums im not willing to discuss my own experiences with God. The most i can tell you is i've had some very "profound" experiences though my studies and through meditation. Most of which litterally brought me to sobbing in joyous glee

About 7 years ago i didn't believe in God at all... Though i was searching for truth in everything. My life didn't make sence, i was confused about my existance and felt helpless. So i started looking for meaning in life and learned what life is... This was a small realization of God. Knowing this, i looked for God in the books about him. Most of it was nonsence until i read about jesus... I was fasinated at the way he spoke, there was nothing but truth in his words. So i read other inturpretations of his words because the bible is only one sorce of this knowledge. You can find the same message in all other religious scriptures with different spins on this and that... regardless of the stories the message is love God, and love your neighbour.....better yet....love everything in creation.

I know God exists, there isn't a shread of doubt in my mind because i've experienced God many times...And now at this point in my life, every single day i experience God. And im greatful for what i understand

reply to post by Akragon


Jesus certainly was a cool guy:-



I agree, some of Jesus words were profound and heart-warming. But others - not. Just because he spoke wise words does not therefore prove the legitimacy of his supernatural claims, nor does it prove the existence of a higher power, nor does it prove the miracles were true (the immaculate conception) nor does it support vicarious redemption (sacrifice for sins) is moral preaching.

Other than reading scripture; could you further describe your "experiences" - What was the turning point? I'm not suggesting anything cliche like a strike by lightning or anything I just want to further understand your definition of God, your understanding of it.

reply to post by awake_and_aware

I agree, some of Jesus words were profound and heart-warming. But others - not. Just because he spoke wise words does not therefore prove the legitimacy of his supernatural claims, nor does it prove the existence of a higher power, nor does it prove the miracles were true (the immaculate conception) nor does it support vicarious redemption (sacrifice for sins) is moral preaching.

Other than reading scripture; could you further describe your "experiences" - What was the turning point? I'm not suggesting anything cliche like a strike by lightning or anything I just want to further understand your definition of God, your understanding of it.

I didn't say anything about supernatural claims. I have no need to speak on things i know nothing about.

Was he supernatural? I have no idea... I've heard many claims about people healing other people all around the world. On the other hand, read IAMIAM's posts, he speaks of healing in and understanding sence. I like this idea honestly, its logical and makes perfect sence to me.

I don't believe he was God on earth, only a part of God like anyone else. Perhaps sent to teach, i would agree with that. There is no doubt he knew God better then anyone, at least from what i've read which is pretty much every word the man spoke.


My definition of God in the simplest sence is, everything and everyone, the all.

reply to post by Akragon

read IAMIAM's posts, he speaks of healing in and understanding sence. I like this idea honestly, its logical and makes perfect sence to me.

Honestly...no thanks. IAMIAM is the ATS resident pseudo-philosopher come Christian. Despite his vague views on subjective and objective morality, and declaring no "label" he preaches Christ very much like a Christian, and it leaves me very uninterested (subjective i guess), and no wiser for entertaining his references to Christ and the old "respect faith" argument.

I'm honestly not sure what "healing in" and "understanding sence" actually is - Again - it's very vague.

My definition of God in the simplest sence is, everything and everyone, the all.

I'll entertain your potential theory of "one", but i'm renaming it - Singularity theory. It's very easy to describe nature or your experience and just label it "God" - People are often quite unaware they are "Pantheistic".

PS. not to be a stickler but:-

en.wiktionary.org...

Just helpin' you out, i hope you'd do the same for me. Afterall, we atheists are altruisic too.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Akragon

 

read IAMIAM's posts, he speaks of healing in and understanding sence. I like this idea honestly, its logical and makes perfect sence to me.

Honestly...no thanks. IAMIAM is the ATS resident pseudo-philosopher come Christian. Despite his vague views on subjective and objective morality, and declaring no "label" he preaches Christ very much like a Christian, and it leaves me very uninterested (subjective i guess), and no wiser for entertaining his references to Christ and the old "respect faith" argument.

I'm honestly not sure what "healing in" and "understanding sence" actually is - Again - it's very vague.

My definition of God in the simplest sence is, everything and everyone, the all.

I'll entertain your potential theory of "one", but i'm renaming it - Singularity theory. It's very easy to describe nature or your experience and just label it "God" - People are often quite unaware they are "Pantheistic".

PS. not to be a stickler but:-

en.wiktionary.org...

Just helpin' you out, i hope you'd do the same for me. Afterall, we atheists are altruisic too.

edit on 21/4/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)

Actually i disagree, he doesn't push his beliefs, but he argues strongly for them. I on the other hand could care less if people believe me or understand me. This is actually why i won't discuss my experiences with others, it cheapens them. They are my own to treasure.

Perhaps you should see what he has to say... You judge him before you read, he speaks the truth and not from a christian point of view.



Btw pardon the spelling *shrug* Sh!te happens eh

reply to post by Akragon

Btw pardon the spelling *shrug* Sh!te happens eh

Something we can agree on. And i'm glad i've prevented some further sh!te from happening.

Originally posted by BigBrotherBear
I've got a serious question. Why do so many woman preach and teach in Churches when the bible is very clear that they aren't allowed to?

1 Corinthians Chapter 14: 34-35

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Timothy Chapter 2: 12

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1 Timothy is a disputed epistle. It is most likely pseudopygraphal, written by a later author who added Paul's name to the work.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 is also theorized to be later additions by members of the Church for political reasons.

Take a look at other portions of his epistles.
1 Corinthians 11.5, “But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered disgraces her head.” Here, we see him with full expectation that a woman will pray and prophecise, which would be very difficult if she couldn't speak.

Romans 16.1. Paul acknowledges Phoebe by saying, “Now I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a diakonos (deacon or minister) in the church of Cenchreae.” Not only would it be difficult for a woman to minister a church if she's not allowed to speak, but more importantly, Paul goes out of his way to name her specifically in his letter to the Romans, and wants his church there to commend her for her works.

1 Cor 7.5. Paul says, “For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; likewise, the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.” This passage seems to indicate that Paul believed in a certain level of equal rights in marriage.

This stuff just goes on and on.

Originally posted by BigBrotherBear
An omni-perfect (defined by myself as: omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent) being cannot possibly make a mistake, nor can he/she change his/her mind for it would already know from time immemorial that it was going to make that mistake and just not make it; yet, the Judeo-Christian God said that "It repented him that he had made man upon the earth". To repent (according to the christian theology) means to turn away from a MISTAKE which you have made.

An omni-perfect being who created original sin, knew man would break his commandments, sacrifice himself, to himself, to appease a rule, he himself created is not a being I would ever worship.

A common misconception and one that is easily reconciled. The author of Genesis was simply trying to state that God was grieved because OUR actions and our hearts were mainly corrupted. He was grieved that our attitude was very much a selfish one. He did not regret His own works, but He was upset/grieved by OURS.

It's very much like when a mother raises her child and when he turns 13 he gets into the wrong crowd. It grieves his mother that he is making bad choices, but she never regrets having him as a son.

I believe the stumbling block with this one can be described with one word..."selectivity". Everybody knows we have choices, we make them everyday. Hardly anyone applies this to our God though. When we understand that God has choices as well, we can then begin to understand why He did/does the things He has done or will do.

You see, just because God has the ability to know each and every choice we will make in life, doesn't mean He exercises that ability. Just like a "telepath" CAN communicate telepathically, it doesn't man they always DO(it's just an example, no reason to split hairs with me over this).

I know it's conjecture, but it makes sense that God "selects" or chooses what He "foreknows". Call it...selective foreknowledge.

A2D

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Then I pose this question. Does God have imperfection within him?

reply to post by SorensDespair


Not at all. Why would you ask?

A2D

reply to post by ShakeNBake

 

You have got to understand that there are or were two types of slavery. The first one that is the bad one is racial slavery which is why God brought the Jews out of slavery because they were held against their will as slaves. The second type of slavery is good slavery.

Slavery is slavery. The Jews were not slaves as they are mentioned in the Bible, but ruling Egypt as despots.

Many people back in that time offered themselves as slaves to make money and to have a place to live and eat.

That's not slavery if you offer your self for money. That's called a servent or butler. Slaves have no choice.