Aliens have not contacted us, therefore theres nothing to disclose

reply to post by andre18


FOr someone to claim what you have claimed in the OP is very Ignorant.... very Ignorant of all the evidence provided to the Navy/Police/Government since they came in and even Ignorant of past Paintings and Ancient peoples who have drawn and told their stories....

I, too have seen with my own eyes things not of this World.... just don't have the proof with me to post it.

Maybe they are on a Parellel to us on a planet which is unable to be seen with the eye or with a Telescope as it is Invisible maybe....

It's annoying but soo right!!!.

reply to post by andre18


That is a pretty outrageous claim considering all he evidence through out history.

Disclosure has happened many times, from ancient time until recently. Our "bringers of truth" will never acknowledge it.

For instance, i am not religious, but many bible scriptures speak of alien encounters including the Book of Ezekiel. Check out the book of Enoch if you have not already. But to say we have never been contacted is pretty crazy man,

Check every account of every civilization from the dawn of recorded time and they clearly explain alien encounters, or "gods" LOL.

I completely disagree with your thread title.

Something tells me that the "signals" used by aliens might be far more advanced than what we know ... now.

No S/F soup for you!!

Originally posted by Roufas
reply to post by andre18

 

Scientists assume too much of what they don't know too.And I am not saying this because I KNOW, it is actually the opposite, I am humble enough to say I DO NOT KNOW, that is why you simply cannot go and take "sides" on this matter.

You can take a side if you're informed enough. I research all SETI and NASA all the time and so i know a fair bit about how the search for life is performed and because of what i've learnt, i think it's only natural anyone learning as much as i have might know more then the next conspiracy buff.

Check out the book by Seth Shostak: Confessions of an Alien Hunter

Originally posted by RoguePhilosopher
reply to post by andre18

 

Are you therefore saying that all of those intelligent people with past previous security clearances involved in the disclosure project, ex government, ex intelligence, ex millitary and even non usa, i.e. ex canadian defence minister are all making up their stories about Aliens, visitations, UFOs, advanced technology etc? All of which are prepared to swear in front of congress that what they say they have seen or have been involved in is truth. And thats just the tip of the iceberg.

As hard as it may be to believe, all of these people are simply misunderstanding what they think are aliens and are just government projects. Because if aliens really are here, why now? I mean it isn't impossible that they could be visiting but my objection to that is why are they here now...that to me is an important point because the earths been around for four and half billion year and they just happened to arrive now. We start seeing things in the sky in the very decades when we finally have the technology to put our own things in the sky - that's a little bit suspect.

I think it's safe to say they don't know we're here because the transmissions haven't gone that far into space,no ones watching i love lucy yet...so they don't know we're here, if they're here now that's an amazing coincidence.

But the real objection is that thousands of reports are made every year of things in the sky that people think are alien craft. It would only take one good report that you could stake up in the museums or farm out to academia and everybody would believe this is true and yet all these thousands of reports there's not one good one and to me thats significant.

reply to post by andre18

(this is implicitly more aimed at the guy you're quoting)

What's more is that it's quite the opposite: it's the scientists who are MOST humble about their statements. The whole method of science is form beliefs based solely one what's demonstrable and what can reasonably be inferred from what's demonstrable.

For example Scientists do take interest in UFOs, plenty of it. But they realise that there is likely to be a vast amount of many phenomena that all gets stuck under the UFO title. UFO meaning "Unidentified Flying Objects" is just so open ended. The findings are that virtually all UFOs can demonstrably be explained as natural phenomena, from birds, to Venus to quake lights presumably produced by geological processes.

Scientists cannot say, and will not say that no UFOs are of Extraterrestrial origin - for instance there are rocks from Mars found on earth that came down in meteor showers which is technically extraterrestrial - it's just not something that anyone can demonstrate. Scientists can demonstrate, though, natural explanations for many cases.

Scientists will then go on to leave science and speculate that its unlikely that Aliens are here because coming here across interplanetary distances is as uneconomical as things can get or something like that. But the point is that it's not rational to believe Alien craft are coming to Earth unless you can demonstrate it by finding a craft not from this world or catching an abduction in the act.


It's fine to speculate, but we have to be honest and be skeptical.

It can be like Michu kaku said , they are using diferent types of communication. Maybe radio signals are to slow and old for them. We could be like ants trying to communicate with humans, but how can you notice 1 ant if you cant heae it. its only when they crawl up on you that you notice what they probably are want and maybe even bothered by it.

Originally posted by Bob Down Under
Just another attenion seeking post I believe

well, as usual, the ATS community at large obliged his request.

Deny Ignorance, Indeed.

Originally posted by KrypticCriminal

The reason your argument or theory falls short

We'll it's really my theory as much as what the folks at SETI believe, so in a way when you nock on me you're nocking on them.

is because your second guessing that Aliens will be able to recieve a radio signal or maybe transmitting one. Then our signal has'nt travelled far enough through space to reach enough significant planets. Again guessing that the planets that this signal has reached, could'nt support life in any way.

Well at the rate that SETI has been doing their search, even if the galaxy has tens of thousands of societies that are broadcasting, it will take a millennia before they find them and that doesn't sound so good....The number of star systems SETI has looked at carefully is 750 that was project Phoenix. In a galaxy of a few hundred billion stars obviously 750 isn't very many.

Originally posted by andre18
Aliens don't know we're here, we've been sending signals out into space sine the 1950's so those signals are about 60 years out into space, so the aliens that are coming here now can't be more 30 light years away to have enough time to pick up our signals and then send their signals back to us. So even if they can go the speed of light, there are only 2000 stars that have been exposed to our fm, tv and radar. But the thing is, a couple of thousand stars is a very small number and strikes me as too few a number for any civilisation to currently know that we exist. This might help you sleep better at night knowing no one knows we're here. To the people who claim that we're being visited, why are they here now? The usual answer to that is, well they're concerned with what we're doing to the environment or they're concerned about nuclear war, that they have some moral interest in us but that's alien sociology so we don't really know that.

Aliens don't know that we are here.......really?

Then how do you explain Chapter 13 in the book "A Fire Officers Guide To Disaster Control?" This book, published in 1992, is a FEMA requirement that all fire department officers must read and understand.

THE UFO THREAT--A FACT In this chapter we will now turn our attention to the very real threat posed by Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs), whether they exist or not. The well-documented and highly publicized War of the Worlds radio drama by Orson Welles shows how even a perceived existence to alien creatures can cause very real disaster-like conditions and panic among a given populace. In addition, if the apparent visits by alien beings and their space vehicles should pose any type of threat, it will, as always, be the fire service that is called upon to provide the first line of life-saving defense and disaster mitigation.

The government knows that we have been contacted before and that we will be contacted again in the future. NASA had hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of tape from the shuttle missions that clearly show ufos flying over the Earth or close to the shuttle. Yet, hardly any of these rolls of film have been released to the public and they have their reasons as to why. One, NASA and the Department of Defense know that we are constantly being visited by extraterrestrials. They know that some of these visitors would not hesitate to go into an intergalactic war and wipe out the entire human populace within a matter of minutes or hours. To give you an example as to how ineffective our weapons would be against them. You need to look no further than two particular incidents that occurred at Malmstrom and Minot Air Force Bases in March of 1967 and June of 1968. Someone or something not of this world had caused several nuclear missiles to completely shut down or, in the case of Minot AFB in 1968, caused these missiles to become armed and ready. Two, they have been keeping the alien visits secret for years so as to not cause worldwide panic. Imagine if you were to reveal that we were being visited by beings from another world. Just think of the widespread panic that would occur if that happened. It would make the panic that ensued from the "War of the Worlds" radio show by Orson Wells look like a piece of cake.

FBI released a memo about UFO and aliens landing in New Mexico in March 1950 in their official site recently.

reply to post by HisMajesty


Yea but if they're using different kinds of communications that we can't intercept, then they're not trying to communicate with us.

If you want to talk to someone, you use a method you know they're likely to get your message with, ie. a cellphone.


So if they're not trying to talk to us, how likely is it that they're here on Earth? They're presumably communicating among themselves elsewhere and have no idea we're here.

After reading some of these posts I can't believe the hatefulness and venom spewing forth. It looks to me like ufology is starting to take on the same emotional qualities in some people as religion, and these emotions are being expressed as hostility to anyone who does not share the same beliefs.

Ufology certainly has all the attributes of a religion: proponents and opponents (many fanatical) of a belief system based mostly on faith. Statistically about as many people have had religious visions as have witnessed UFOs. We seldom hear of the religious type because they're not usually shared with the public, being of a more personal nature. The rest of us either believe or disbelieve the hear-say evidence of others and act upon the information with a closed or open mind. Although I have never seen a flying saucer or similar craft, I really believe there are things out there people are observing. The amount of people reporting sightings is overwhelming, but what are they?

I do hope someday people will stop their petty bickering on these forums and get down to some real research and information sharing. I find people get most emotional and hateful when arguing topics which cannot be readily proven or cannot be proven at all; i.e. matters of faith which are based on sketchy evidence at the best and the testimony of others (hearsay).

reply to post by gimmefootball400

whether they exist or not.

This text is clearly about contingency plans and doesn't tell us that aliens exist, just that FEMA has contemplated what would need to happen were we to be attacked by Aliens. They wouldn't be talking contingencies if they knew Aliens were here. They'd say "Now the aliens have thus far seemed benign in that they haven't to our knowledge acted with aggression even when shot at by rural yokels, BUT..."


C'mon. If you were in charge of the USA and didn't have reason to believe aliens had communicated, it's still be irresponsible not to consider what would happen in such an event. FEMA is exhibiting common sense.

Someone or something not of this world had caused several nuclear missiles to completely shut down or, in the case of Minot AFB in 1968, caused these missiles to become armed and ready.

These are very indecisive aliens aren't they.

Imagine if you were to reveal that we were being visited by beings from another world.

I'm imagining adulation and celebration like never before - it would be the ultimate external look at ourselves as one people, one species.

Just think of the widespread panic that would occur if that happened. It would make the panic that ensued from the "War of the Worlds" radio show by Orson Wells look like a piece of cake.

You do realise that people were scare in that case because they thought they were being invaded right? Learning simply that aliens exist wouldn't result in that - especially since most people believe aliens exist anyway.

Originally posted by andre18

Originally posted by KrypticCriminal

The reason your argument or theory falls short

We'll it's really my theory as much as what the folks at SETI believe, so in a way when you nock on me you're nocking on them.

is because your second guessing that Aliens will be able to recieve a radio signal or maybe transmitting one. Then our signal has'nt travelled far enough through space to reach enough significant planets. Again guessing that the planets that this signal has reached, could'nt support life in any way.

Well at the rate that SETI has been doing their search, even if the galaxy has tens of thousands of societies that are broadcasting, it will take a millennia before they find them and that doesn't sound so good....The number of star systems SETI has looked at carefully is 750 that was project Phoenix. In a galaxy of a few hundred billion stars obviously 750 isn't very many.

Your still using the exact same arguments. Let me say it clearly so you dont misunderstand.

SETI could have got it all wrong.

Therefore to keep holding SETI up as a poster child for proper scientific research is flawed from the start, because like ive said. They dont know for sure that Aliens will be able to send or recieve radio waves. They dont know for sure how many planets there are that could or do support life, or where these planets are. So straight away the time distance argument go's out the window. SETI is just one massive shot in the dark.

I appreciate that what they are doing is done with the best of scientific intention, and who knows maybe one day they will get that message they're seeking, but i very much doubt it

Fortunatley we dont have to rely on the this method that SETI is using to try and detect life because there are other possible ways that ET's could have found us. That does'nt require a radio signal or transmition of any kind. I refer back to my previous example.

So to say that ET's have never contacted us based on the futile and flawed attempts SETI are conducting just wont stand up. It does'nt matter how many books you read on them or videos you watch about them. The whole thing was based on too many assumptions from the start.

reply to post by andre18


Regarding abductions.We "bag and tag" all types of species on this planet,,and really there is no reason besides curiosity or preservation. So to assume that an advanced species isnt doing the same to us, is not an intelligent school of thought.
It is mathematically impossible for there not to be intelligent life in the universe besides ours, given the same circumstances that created ours.Ala The Drake Equation
en.wikipedia.org...
I for one believe our planet is one big vivarium

A vivarium (Latin, literally for "place of life"; plural: vivaria or vivariums) is a usually enclosed area for keeping and raising animals or plants for observation or research. Often, a portion of the ecosystem for a particular species is simulated on a smaller scale, with controls for environmental conditions.

With a fence, no less

Missions beyond low earth orbit leave the protection of the geomagnetic field, and transit the Van Allen belts. Thus they may need to be shielded against exposure to cosmic rays, Van Allen radiation, or solar flares. The region between two to four earth radii lies between the two radiation belts and is sometimes referred to as the "safe zone".

IMHO

reply to post by consigliere

Regarding abductions.We "bag and tag" all types of species on this planet,,and really there is no reason besides curiosity or preservation. So to assume that an advanced species isnt doing the same to us, is not an intelligent school of thought.
It is mathematically impossible for there not to be intelligent life in the universe besides ours

But even assuming there exist intelligent aliens out there (and the OP does) that hardly means they're here stealing people at night.

And there would be no need for Aliens to do this en mass like the abuctionists claim, for the same reason we don't need to abduct every tenth organism of a species for bagging and tagging. And considering we're a space faring species, the analogy between man and creature-for-bagging-and-tagging is completely unrealistic. If they wanted to understand us they'd talk to us, just as we would if we could talk with the animals.


But that's all pretty irrelevant when there's no evidence of abductions outside of people's dreams.

reply to post by KrypticCriminal


I'll make this point, they don't know we're here so they can't be specifically targeting earth with transmissions because they they don't know about our species and well the obvious rejoiner to that is to say well that's ok because they're just broadcasting to the entire galaxy, but that turns out to be expensive, at least if they do so at a level that makes it easy for the kinds of SETI experiments they run to detect.

They would need a omnidirectional broadcast on the order of ten to the 17 watts with the transmitter power. So ten to the 17 watts is a lot, that's kinda earths insulation that's the total sunlight falling on the earth - so if you're going to build an omnidirectional broadcast this is the power requirement for you in order that you make something that would be easily detectable by SETI.

To summaries this little argument here. The idea of looking for always on signals i think founders on the fact that there's no obvious motivation for them to target earth in particular and to target everywhere is very expensive. How deal with this is, is ergo the assumption that they're broadcasting at such a level that SETI's experiments could detect them.

Ten to the 25 watts is our sensitivity but that's only 100 years after Guglielmo Marconi and of course the aliens don't know when we invented radio, maybe they assume we invented radio 100,000 year ago and that we have instruments that are far more sensitive then this.

And a few proposals have been made from what i've researched that what you really want to do is send spacecraft out beyond the sun as a gravitational lens and make that your antenna, at which point you get in the order of 10 to the 11th gain over what ever you put out there, and that's the way to do these searches because with that kind of amplification that would allow you to see our street lights apparently.

So maybe that's what aliens are assuming that we know that we have that capability, because that's not so far into the future. I mean you can't do that today, you can't send a satellite out beyond the sun, but you certainly could in a century. So maybe the aliens are assuming we're a couple of centuries more along then we are and consequently they have very much weaker transmitters then the kinds of things we can find.

Originally posted by andre18

Originally posted by woodwytch

How do you know that sleeping pills don't just mask the memory ... it doesn't mean the events have stopped ... just that you might not remember them !

Because that's not sleeping pills do, they just cause you to be drowsy. If you want to debate the effects of sleeping pills how bout you research whey they do and if you find that they can cause memory lose well then we'll have something to talk about otherwise you're making up ideas for the sake of it.

Oh bless you andre18 you never disappoint

... I had actually forgotten just how damn easy you are to reel in ... where's the sport in that

I'd also forgotten how you bring out my wicked side ... ok, I apologize in advance ... I will let you off with your other wonderous claims but you have to let me have this one ... so that anyone who thinks you may still have a shred of credibility can see that you truly do not have a clue what you are talking about ... but you try to say it with such eloquence (there's an old saying where I come from - 'bluff and bull$h!t baffles brains - back to the drawing board for you me'thinks)

So andre18 ... you are telling us with complete confidence that 'sleeping pills do not effect the memory' ?

Ok, now just so that we are clear from the start, I do not feel the need to debate the effect of sleeping pills with you because I already know you are onto a loser with this one ... but I also know that you will not take the word of lil'old me on this matter so I found a couple of links for 'you' to research yourself

>>>Source #1>>Source #3