The Roman Empire Collapsed Under the Weight of Illegal Immigration and Welfare...

No, actually the Roman Empire collapsed because the Money Lenders at the time restricted the amount of gold that was available in the system.

As the amount of available cash declined, the Government of the day was unable to pay troops, unable to feed the slaves that the empire was built on, unable to feed the poorest members of society.

The money lenders restricted the supply of gold by hoarding it so much that the empire just collapsed under the strain of being spread too thin. This lead to nearly 800 years of the dark ages.

What do you think is going on right now in the USA? The money supply is being shrunk, debt is being increased, it's the Roman Empire all over again.

Oh, and illegal immigration is also a massive problem, a nod to the OP.

reply to post by Ghost375


i have to say i totally agree with you.. america created an empire thorough culture and money the only difference to previous empires that were similar, they used modern technologies to do it.. america has colonised the world with movies, music, celebrity, sports, media, money, brands, mass production, advertising (hypnotising), world wide use of the dollar, trade, etc..you get my point, far to many to list here.. although i have to add, there were a few wars thrown in there to help out. we call this empire by an alternative name of a country being "westernised" and this has spread far and wide over the lasr few decades..
im sure you can drink a coke, eat a big mac, listen to elvis or watch a hollywood movie in any country on this planet..

This current state of mind or lack of awareness scares me a little. History is repeating itself???Do you mean the country that was founded upon immigration?????
As a Native-Autochthon of (what is now called)North America, the only thing that truly disturbs me is the fact, the descendants of immigrants are now exclaiming who deserves to be where and who deserves resources.!.!. This insolent attitude and approach is very arrogant. I have had real-life, verbal conversations and these same individuals, out of ignorance, will say the same thing.....These people need to go back to where they came from.(this is so insane and ridiculous with all of the unnecessary border patrol "patriots" and citizens that carry this mentality) This is a very insane way to think, and it is the funniest, dumbest, and most ignorant of all.
I'm not attacking anyone so please do not take it that way.

and correction. The United States, NOT America has created an empire. This is why the Amero and other American unions will take place is because your limited understanding of language and names. Ignorance is a resource they invest in and they will profit from it. An American Empire would include a unified Mexico, USA, and Canada (to say the least). Which would automatically eliminate the idea of immigration. so....

Originally posted by babybunnies

As the amount of available cash declined, the Government of the day was unable to pay troops,
.

True and False. Rome didn't pay the troops because they were paying (bribing with welfare) Attila the Hun. Except Attila wasn't playing by the Roman rules.

Originally posted by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS
This current state of mind or lack of awareness scares me a little. History is repeating itself???Do you mean the country that was founded upon immigration?????

The early immigrants of America didn't rely on welfare. They WORKED. It's not until the past couple of decades since the end of WWII that the immigrants of America have become more and more illegal, and draining the treasury with welfare.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by fredvcall

 

It's actually more complex than you think.

You didn't take into account the fact that the U.S polices the world, hence our involvement in 3 conflicts all at once (Iraq, Afghanistan and now Libya).

Nice trick there on pushing the birther/Tea Party line of cutting social programs/clamping down on borders.

Hmmmm...Some how you are linking Osama bin Laden to cutting welfare and protecting the Mexican/American border. Interesting line of deduction.

Originally posted by Misterlondon
it doesnt really matter how rome fell, the fact is, empires rise and fall.. thats just the way it is..
history always repeats itself, and eveything goes around in cycles..
the roman empire, british empire, the mongol empire, the greeks, eyptians, russians, etc... all rose and fell..
imo america was the empire of our most recent history... so, its only a matter of time... and its possible the allies of europe will go down too..

edit on 15/4/11 by Misterlondon because: (no reason given)

Then your philosophy is to allow illegal immigration and welfare destroy America because it destroys every civilization it has touched? And we should do nothing about it? Learn nothing?

immigration such as illegal is a valid point

E pluribus unum out of many come one

one nation
one people
one voice

now we live in a country that is no longer that great melting pot that our grandparents knew at one time

we have become many nations with many voices and vast cultural differences that just share the same roof over our heads.


fred is right.

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
Wasn't christianity a major factor in the fall of the Roman empire ? ( I'm no historian ) Also The empire got split into two , an east and west version which created massive political and military problems. I've often thought they decided that the upkeep of the army was too costly and complicated and instead came up with The Roman catholic church. Much easier to control people via psychology than with an army.

My main point is that yes they fell but turned into something more insideous and possibly more powerfull - Catholicism's lasted longer than the Roman empire. Well done Constantine !

edit on 15-4-2011 by Hopeforeveryone because: info added

Yes, the empire was split in two when Attila took Constantinople. It helps to have watched the History Channel biography.

Originally posted by masqua
The really interesting thing was that Attila was afraid of the Christian God, St. Peter and St. Paul. This is what saved Rome from one of the most successful campaigners of it's time and it wasn't long after that when he died.

Moral of the story? You can't trust mercenaries.

Attila wasn't the only barbarian leader to receive welfare from Rome. He was one of the more recognizable names in history.

Originally posted by neo96
immigration such as illegal is a valid point

E pluribus unum out of many come one

one nation
one people
one voice

now we live in a country that is no longer that great melting pot that our grandparents knew at one time

we have become many nations with many voices and vast cultural differences that just share the same roof over our heads.


fred is right.

The Great Melting Pot is no Fun Ball of Wax. And it hasn't been a free ride until Democrats of late have tried to make welfare and illegal immigration a political platform for themselves, not their country.

Rome collapsed under the weight of illegal immigration and welfare. Looks as though America is going in that direction.

Rome is now a tourist mecca and no longer a real capital. Washington will likely become the same.

reply to post by fredvcall


thats politics and nothing more trying to maintain power through their votes but that is where that is going.


yeah man we have become rome and rome is burning while nero/obama and the left fiddles

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by fredvcall

 

thats politics and nothing more trying to maintain power through their votes but that is where that is going.


yeah man we have become rome and rome is burning while nero/obama and the left fiddles

Would it be fair to say that the illegal immigrants of Rome's day carried swords and spears and burning torches? While the illegal immigrants of today carry drugs and AK 47s?

reply to post by fredvcall


you would be correct

but another part of the "atilla" is the war in the middle east in my opinion

each one is a piece to the puzzle

reply to post by neo96


Attila and other barbarian leaders realized that if they cut the Aquaducts feeding water to Rome, eventually Rome would capitulate without water. Then came the sacking and plundering of Rome. The Pope took off to the South of France to establish a base of operations.

Welfare payments to the barbarians just didn't work out the way Rome planned. The more Rome paid out welfare, the more the barbarians thought Rome to grow weaker.

So much for compassion.

reply to post by fredvcall


water in todays case is welfare feed the us/rome and eventually we will capitulate when we finally run out of money to finance the it

the welfare that is going to the people will finally run out when the money is finally cut off from us.

reply to post by fredvcall


I understand and respect your point of view.
But honestly, really ask yourself, really all nonsense aside. Do you really think anyone relies upon welfare????
How about this simple analysis, when immigrants were able to find jobs they did things like become typist, phone-operators etc. Those 2 examples alone would include thousands of jobs that have now been replaced by your friend and soon to be boss, The computer or the machine. So its not that people rely upon welfare, The United States has been selling this dream to the world that guarantees everyone an opportunity. When they get here there are no jobs (partly because they don't exist anymore)and there are very few that have enough resources to make it back.
Let's discuss the situation while addressing all avenues.
......and it is very naive and foolish to bash our current president without bashing the others that lead us to the current position we are in. In his very short time as president he has done fewer things than some of your previous presidents that are revered for their so-called heroic deeds within their terms. When a decade or two roll by we see the true essence and nature of their decisions(ahem... clinton.excuse me)so eliminate that from this discussion please and lets think things out a little more. Obama was handed a platter of feces and we really expect him to build a Taj Mahal out of it.....Come on now

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
Wasn't christianity a major factor in the fall of the Roman empire ? ( I'm no historian

No. Both Western and Eastern empires were Christian.

The Eastern Roman Empire lasted until the late 1400's. If you start from the beginning of the Roman Republic, that's maybe 1800 years. Not bad, in fact.

At the time of the partition between East and West, the East was substantially richer. Their economic power enabled them to keep up militarily.

The Western Roman empire collapsed as a consequence of repeated, successful invasions. The same reason the Eastern Roman empire fell.

reply to post by fredvcall


The Roman Empire fell because of rampant corruption, constant wars, with massive military spending, failing economy, high unemployment and a host of other social, cultural and political reasons.

So did the history channel tell you that "illegal immigration and welfare" caused the collapse of the Roman Empire?

Welfare is something people must apply for, do we have documents with Attila application for government assistance, the Romans were meticulous record keepers...

Illegal immigrants come here to work or to apply for government aid, so we must have a host of records from the Roman Empire showing the mass of Huns working or applying for government aid.

This should be easy to prove.....