France arrests Muslim women as full-face veil ban begins

reply to post by AnitaCigarette


None of the mentioned head coverings cover the FACE .. a Burqa is a head to toe covering that only leaves a small opening for the eyes. Not at all like a nuns habit.

Personally I support France.. I find Sharia Law a disgusting perversion of religion in any form, and find it appalling how many Liberals support the suppression of women under it. Idiotic hypocrites.

reply to post by AnitaCigarette


The TSA analogy I used was to show that there are greater injustices going on than banning a piece of religious garb that segregates and demoralizes women. And to bring up the question of, if a 6 year old needs a pat down, and masked women can board a plane, how much should you be allowed to get away with because of your religion?

I just don't see how banning objects will help the situation in France with the Muslim community and the already alienated subculture they created through policy over the decades.

This, to me, is no different than banning guns to stop murders. It won't work.

Originally posted by Sarahko

Originally posted by -W1LL
reply to post by Sarahko

 

I understand your point although I don't see the Muslims Imposing their beliefs on anyone else in this situation..

Excuse me!!! But don`t they ban things??? Everything is banned in their countries. Drinking, dancing, loud music, touching, come on....

If we don`t start banning things instead of being so liberal for everything - before we know it, it`s no longer going to be Europe, but Eurabia.

Think about it.

edit on 15-4-2011 by Sarahko because: (no reason given)

They don`t enforce their laws on us?? Really?
I go to Kuwait, for example, I have a great meal and I want to have a beer - NO. I can`t. Because the whole country is HALAL. They don`t accept anything which is not in accordance with THEIR religion. So where is my freedom If they don`t want /can`t drink FINE. But why can`t I? (this is just ONE example).

But , OK, you accept and adapt to it - you say, hey, this is what their country imposes, and if I don`t agree, all I have to do is leave. I don`t fight? I don`t bring in undercover bottles of gin or whisky....I understand, respect and that`s it.

But the opposite is NOT true. Little by little, in very subtle ways, they get embedded in other countries and then start imposing their beliefs. What`s wrong with saying - in this country, we don`t accept veils. If you really want to go to that country, you will abide and accept those rules, if not, go somewhere else, Simple as that. We don`t get a choice in the middle east.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by AnitaCigarette

 

None of the mentioned head coverings cover the FACE .. a Burqa is a head to toe covering that only leaves a small opening for the eyes. Not at all like a nuns habit.

Personally I support France.. I find Sharia Law a disgusting perversion of religion in any form, and find it appalling how many Liberals support the suppression of women under it. Idiotic hypocrites.

It is the same thing, the only difference is you can't see their face. & like I said, I think if an officer asks you to remove the mask, do it in private. I agree that Sharia Law is an abomination. I also agree Bruqas should be removed [in private], but respect the religion & respect the human being wearing it. Just because you can't see their face, doesn't mean they don't have the same rights as everyone else. If you move to France, or any country where they don't ban Burqas, & you still wear it, that would be your personal choice. No one is making you put one on. No one is making you look at them either. The only thing you can do is judge them as different or think they have entitlement to wear such garments.

reply to post by AnitaCigarette


well...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In Islam it is allowed for women to see other womens face but no other men than your husband. i find this fair to be honest, so for this face identification why dont they get women officers to deal with muslim women who choose to wear it? like in airports, muslim women are checked by other females. no problems there. but of course they dont want that, what they want is for muslims to be angry over something, they want muslims to revolt, they want muslims to rise and speak up so that they can use the events for their own agenda. it will be easier to blame a false flag on angry revolting muslims.

the war against islam practically began in 2001.

Originally posted by OUNjahhryn
reply to post by AnitaCigarette

 

The TSA analogy I used was to show that there are greater injustices going on than banning a piece of religious garb that segregates and demoralizes women. And to bring up the question of, if a 6 year old needs a pat down, and masked women can board a plane, how much should you be allowed to get away with because of your religion?

Do they have TSA pat-downs in France? I think if you want to get on that plane, if it requires you being molested, then do it. The parents should also have known that it was a possibility & should have warned them before hand that an officer might pat you down. We have given our rights to them, it's our fault for not standing against it sooner. That doesn't mean it's to late to make a change either. & that is also an entirtely unrelated subject because this is about France, not America. When they start banning Burqas in America too, then I'll be on the same page with you. But here in America, whatever age or religion or whatever colored veil you wear, you still go through a security check & a pat-down. The only reason this is an issue is because parents are trying to use the kids as an excuse to complain about TSA now. I knew it was only a matter of time before people started exploiting the children.

Back to the subject at hand: That garb might demoralize some women, but others might wear it because their mother & grandmother wore one too. Maybe they like wearing it. Maybe they don't want to change their cultural clothing.

Originally posted by CountDrac
reply to post by AnitaCigarette

 

well...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

*ahem*

reply to post by CountDrac


Your author seems to be considered a fake..

It's also not from 2008 as you suggest..

Here's an article on it from 2006 to prove my point..

By Bernie on 27 Feb 2006
Here is the post, usually prefaced by Written by Sebastian Vilar Rodrigez, Spanish Writer or "This is a translation of an article from a Spanish newspaper":


plancksconstant.org...

Search his name and you get many hits saying it's a fictitious name..
Probably a hit piece out of Israel..

*removed content*

Originally posted by AnitaCigarette

reply to post by AnitaCigarette

 

Back to the subject at hand: That garb might demoralize some women, but others might wear it because their mother & grandmother wore one too. Maybe they like wearing it. Maybe they don't want to change their cultural clothing.

It all reduces itself to that last statement, where do we cross the line, where something becomes tradition and where does it turn into an imposition?
who gives meaning to stuff, who has the right to impose whatever values to anyone, this is a touchy subject and its implications have the possibility to turn things over, we can only wait and hope that common sense and respect take precedence, but of course, I´m only dreaming right?

reply to post by AnitaCigarette


so you say yourself it may demoralize some women but others might not mind? I'm sorry but haven't their been mass protests and wars started over people wanting democracy in their country this year? Now France is fighting for the rights of IT'S women, and its a big faux pas? thats right, when you move to a country, you are a part of that country, those are now women of france, and women of france are free.

Some women may WANT to wear it, but for those who don't, this may save their lives.

and how dare you speak of TSA groping children like its no big deal.

If you don't mind that some women are forced by their husbands and religion to cover their bodies/faces, and the TSA rubbing children is no big deal, than you have some serious morality flaws.

by looking at your picture you seem like a pretty free girl, imagine you were born into a country/religion and always had to completely cover your body and face every time you left your house. now imagine moving to a free country, and having the old laws of the country you left still apply. even though all the other women you see are equal with men.

now imagine not being able to do anything about it out of fear that your husband and religious institution may harm you.

just think about it, from an equality and morality stand point instead of a religious standpoint.

and remember that those women are citizens of France now. if they wish for the laws of their homeland, they can always go back.

It all reduces itself to that last statement, where do we cross the line, where something becomes tradition and where does it turn into an imposition?
who gives meaning to stuff, who has the right to impose whatever values to anyone, this is a touchy subject and its implications have the possibility to turn things over, we can only wait and hope that common sense and respect take precedence, but of course, I´m only dreaming right?


Im dreaming with you too. Oh, how I wish, as you say , that common sense, respect, understanding would prevail...
This way, everyone would understand, accept , respect other people`s ways and traditions...adapt when necessary, without creating fights or making big deals out of nothing...

Total utopia I suppose...at least for the time being... There`s always hope for the future!!

Originally posted by RizeorDie
In Islam it is allowed for women to see other womens face but no other men than your husband. i find this fair to be honest, so for this face identification why dont they get women officers to deal with muslim women who choose to wear it? like in airports, muslim women are checked by other females. no problems there. but of course they dont want that, what they want is for muslims to be angry over something, they want muslims to revolt, they want muslims to rise and speak up so that they can use the events for their own agenda. it will be easier to blame a false flag on angry revolting muslims.

the war against islam practically began in 2001.

ok, so here is the thing

in Islam, it is allowed for women to be seen by anyone, it is -recommended- to be covered up totally except for the hands and eyes, but there is no hard and fast rule demanding it. most scholars agree on this point.

the decision by some countrys then to enforce it from personal recommendation to islamic demand is a cultural thing, not a religious thing.
like me demanding christians donate to feeding the hungry or some charity because christianity suggests it.


Next point...how about this.
Why not just have a collective decision to not wear it..and any other rule that sucks about islam...say for instance, eating pork.
God (Allah) clearly changes his mind alot.
Judism = no veil
Christianity = no veil
Islam = hebrew religion part 3...did god suddenly change his mind? if so, then he can simply change it back to his initial uncaring viewpoint about the subject..

Religion...gotta love its flexability...rubber stone.

Originally posted by Sarahko
This way, everyone would understand, accept , respect other people`s ways and traditions...adapt when necessary, without creating fights or making big deals out of nothing... Total utopia I suppose...at least for the time being... There`s always hope for the future!!

I´m sure humanity know that it didn't sign up for the majority of conditions it finds itself immersed into.
I´m also sure that the rest of us would just like to live in peace, respecting everyone else, without judging or imposing, that humanity celebrated diversity as a sign of the reiteration of the fractal nature of the Universe, instead of finding it as the perfect excuse to throw poop at strangers, or even worse yet, poop in the places where others eat just because someone has to loose.

This political Muslim excuse of an issue can be something as reality altering as the French revolution and all of its underlying features...

we can only hope, but in the meantime, its action thats needed, every little bit counts, we are not alone and have never been alone, as we have humanity to fall back on, its just that we dont understand it yet, but we will...

this "ban" didn't come about because France wanted to start a tiff with Muslims. This "request" came about because an act being enforced requires it. Wearing a burka/scarf/smelly robe isn't a RIGHT, it's a CHOICE

Originally posted by OUNjahhryn
reply to post by AnitaCigarette

 

so you say yourself it may demoralize some women but others might not mind? I'm sorry but haven't their been mass protests and wars started over people wanting democracy in their country this year?

Protesting for Democracy is a complete 360 different from wanting to keep your Burqa on. Democracy is for some governmental order & get rid of the TERROR. Having the choice to wear a Burqa is a cultural/religious/heretical issue. But then again, Democracy is a religion in itself. We all have to abide by the holy laws that the man gives us, thereby turning the rulers into gods themselves.

and how dare you speak of TSA groping children like its no big deal.

If you don't mind that some women are forced by their husbands and religion to cover their bodies/faces, and the TSA rubbing children is no big deal, than you have some serious morality flaws.

Whoa don't start putting words in my mouth. I said if parents want to let their kids get felt up just to go on vacation, they should warn them that they are going to be touched for an inspection, not sexually assaulted. & don't even try to judge me based on comments I made in a forum. I didn't say anything to suggest I am immoral, except for what you are reading into. you're trying to find some flaw in my logic, when I think I am of sound reason.

by looking at your picture you seem like a pretty free girl, imagine you were born into a country/religion and always had to completely cover your body and face every time you left your house. now imagine moving to a free country, and having the old laws of the country you left still apply. even though all the other women you see are equal with men.

I am not free because I live in America. No one is free if someone is telling you what to do & how to do it. The only free people of the world live off the grid.

If they are truly free, then they are free to wear whatever they want, even if it symbolizes a dark past. Some women don't wear the veil, some do. It's their choice. Some might be scared to be in public without it, some might not! Until you & I are both Muslim women, we have no way of knowing who feels which way about what.

I already explained what you just said. Basically, itr was along the lines of "imagine you are a Muslim woman & you move to France because of the barbarians living in your home country," & also, imagine if every Muslim woman discarded her robes because it's symbolic of the misogynist past of their religion. That would be part of their native culture gone, lost in history. That is like killing off their language or the way they paint vases & make decorative ornaments. It's their heritage, they are entitled to it, just like Native Americans are entitled to Tobacco Rituals & Jews don't eat pork. They are cultural & ingrained in their history. Their Burqas are as much a part of their history as the Qur'an they read from.

Maybe some women like them, maybe some don't. I have contemplated doing it to see what reaction it would get here in America. I bet you they get plenty of judgmental stares & prejudice remarks. That is why I posted an article by a Muslim woman, since she knows first hand experience with wearing a Burqa. You & I don't, therefor, we cannot assume that all women are demoralized by wearing a Burqa, even outside their country of origin, just because of religious oppression by the men of her country.

now imagine not being able to do anything about it out of fear that your husband and religious institution may harm you.

Imagine a Muslim woman's fear that she might have to move back to her twisted home country because France said no fabric on your face & wouldn't meet her halfway by recognizing it as freedom of religious expression.

Imagine how she will be treated if she comes back with even a little bit of self respect for herself & disregard for the barbarian mindset of the men around her.

just think about it, from an equality and morality stand point instead of a religious standpoint.

Honey, I've viewed this from all angles & I'm 100% sure I have a reasonable excuse to think it's disgusting to make a Muslim woman throw away her garbs because some white Frenchy boy said "take it off or be fined." I'd be pissed off if an officer told me that, even if I wasn't a Muslim woman & wanted to test out the Burqa experience! Those women are raised that way, they might want to stay that way.

The government has no right to tell you how to dress, whether it's a religious choice or not.

and remember that those women are citizens of France now. if they wish for the laws of their homeland, they can always go back.

That is unreasonable & stupid. I believe that people who jump toi that conclusion don't utilize their thinking capabilities to the fullest.

I guess you're also one of those people who say "If you don't like America, get out!" Yeah, that's totally logical. *NOT*

Originally posted by RizeorDie
In Islam it is allowed for women to see other womens face but no other men than your husband. i find this fair to be honest, so for this face identification why dont they get women officers to deal with muslim women who choose to wear it? like in airports, muslim women are checked by other females. no problems there. but of course they dont want that, what they want is for muslims to be angry over something, they want muslims to revolt, they want muslims to rise and speak up so that they can use the events for their own agenda. it will be easier to blame a false flag on angry revolting muslims.

the war against islam practically began in 2001.

So you like women smiles and faces been covered up?

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter

Originally posted by RizeorDie
In Islam it is allowed for women to see other womens face but no other men than your husband. i find this fair to be honest, so for this face identification why dont they get women officers to deal with muslim women who choose to wear it? like in airports, muslim women are checked by other females. no problems there. but of course they dont want that, what they want is for muslims to be angry over something, they want muslims to revolt, they want muslims to rise and speak up so that they can use the events for their own agenda. it will be easier to blame a false flag on angry revolting muslims.

the war against islam practically began in 2001.

no, i'm actually the opposite. In arabic countries you are not required to cover your face (apart from saudi arabia) so its not an issue there. but this is different, you would think that in a European democracy people can do as they wish.
So you like women smiles and faces been covered up?

As much as I disagree with the law (I don't believe you can give rights by taking rights), I do have to admit that the French are extremely good at keeping their culture alive.

And from a cultural perspective I don't really see a problem. If France wants to keep themselve's 'French' that is their perogative. But, they shouldn't bs about it. If that is the reasoning, state that that is the reasoning.

PS: We have indecency laws that dictate how little we can wear, now the French have a law that dictates how much you can wear...when do they start just telling us what to wear?