War general, country hero guilty!

This is very big news in Croatia, as I wrote this all media in Croatia are reporting it.

Croatia, and BIH had war in 1990-1998 against Serbia. Before we was in Yugoslavia and when Croatia leaved that, war started on their land. Yugoslavia was then 3th world military in world. Serbian army went deep in Croatian and BIH territory, some big cities have fallen, and they occupied a lot of land.

There were few people, generals that was in charge of our defensive military. Somehow, without weapons or help from EU, Croatia managed to defend from attackers and to fight back and secure all country borders. War was only on Croatian land and never in Serbia.

After war our few generals was trialed in Haag, that persecutes war crimes. One of them is general Ante Gotovina that is percieved in nation as truly hero, so far I didnt hear for anyone that thinks bad about him.
Ante Gotovina got 24 years!

This will be top news for some time here in Croatia, and I believe in Bosnia too.
Ante Gotovina was one of major people when Croatia reconquered back all conquered territory by Serbia, and people here actually know that.

To me it is even more weird that I found on wikipedia this:
en.wikipedia.org...
On April 15 2011, Gotovina was found guilty on 7 of the 8 counts of the indictment and sentenced to 24 years of imprisonment.[5]

This news is few hours old, and it is on Wikipedia already? How is that possible?
www.youtube.com...

Think for example. Portugal invades USA and occupy half of USA. Then some super guy war hero general mr. Smith takes charge and claim back all USA territory. War overs and USA is free again. Then international war crime court persecutes mr. Smith for war crimes. What would American's do?

Also, first Croatian president (dead now), and some other Croatian generals were persecuted and involved in this case. I can say you that as Im writing this that people in mayor cities protests on streets against that persecution, even if that news is few hours old all ppl know it and talk only about it.

Sry for bad English.

Originally posted by ferumbra


Croatia, and BIH had war in 1990-1998 against Serbia.

Hummm, how do you explain this?????

en.wikipedia.org...

I will tell you honest what I know about this, not much.

Dont believe everything as on wikipedia, I can tell you what have I perceived. There in Bosnia were Croatian army, also Serbian army were there. As I know, our army somehow helped Bosnian in war against Serbia. Bosnian borders are deep inside Croatian land, few miles to main city Zagreb.

If Bosnia was conquered by Serbia, it would be impossible to defend Croatia. Croatia have largest borders with Bosnia.

So I dont know about Croatian crimes in Bosnia, but I know that Croatian army fighted Serbian army there also.

Also, one more thing, BIH is independent now, and Croatia is like in brotherhood relationship with Bosnia.

Ferumbra od kuda si?

Im from Croatia. It is interesting here today

Ethnic cleansing is a war crime sorry.

It was Croatian territory occupied by Serbian army.
How can that be ethnic cleansing? Croatian army was never fight in Serbian territory.

So you take mine thing and I take that thing back, so Im wrong?

reply to post by ferumbra


It's still ethnic cleansing, so, yes. If I take your thing I guess you can take it back, but to do so you don't have to kill EVERYONE.

But still, ethnic cleansing is questionable.
Not sure that was anything different when Serbian army attacked Croatian, that is war. Serbian people live here still.

Like in Palestina now, is that ethnic cleansing?
So if some Palestinian general fights back enemy forces and claim back Palestinian land, that would be ethnic cleansing and he would be charged for war crimes. Sounds somehow unfair.

Yes, this is very interesting for many reasons. Gotovina was found guilty even though so many people in Zagreb and elsewhere were saying he would be freed. As things stand now history books will be changed, not much but a bit. It was always thought that Tudjman had a negative role in the wars of former Jugoslavija, but this will confirm that view.

On the ethnic cleansing point - there is a strict definition of ethnic cleansing you can easily find on the internet. The Croatian position was that yes Serbs were ethnically cleansed according to definition but that they cleansed themselves ie that they decided to leave upon advice from Belgrade.
This reasoning was rejected by the judges at the Hague. I accept that these guys were advised to leave their homes from Belgrade btw but at the same time think about this on a human level - would you leave your home because somebody quite far away was advising you to do so? Or would you leave your home because you were scared for your life? As we know some old people who were left behind were killed and houses were set on fire or robbed. So again, you choose to risk staying or you decide to 'cleanse' yourself. Was it really your choice to 'cleanse' yourself, or was it the fault of those who were attacking. Were they doing the cleansing? And let us not forget the Serb experience from the last time Croats fought them in the second world war. Of course you would run...
The other important point is that judges accepted that Tudjman and senior commanders had planned in advance to cleanse Serbs from the Knin / Krajina region.

I ja sam iz Hrvatske
When that war started I had to leave along with my family from my home,my town,because we along with many people were chased away by Serbian army from our territory, or we could stay and get killed or tortured like many people were. There is a lot to be discovered in all this debate over war,what happened and what didn't. In war there is not only one guilty party...

Sorry, but this conflict has interesting background back to ww2

www.spirituallysmart.com...

Originally posted by ferumbra
I will tell you honest what I know about this, not much.

Dont believe everything as on wikipedia, I can tell you what have I perceived. There in Bosnia were Croatian army, also Serbian army were there. As I know, our army somehow helped Bosnian in war against Serbia. Bosnian borders are deep inside Croatian land, few miles to main city Zagreb.

If Bosnia was conquered by Serbia, it would be impossible to defend Croatia. Croatia have largest borders with Bosnia.

So I dont know about Croatian crimes in Bosnia, but I know that Croatian army fighted Serbian army there also.

Also, one more thing, BIH is independent now, and Croatia is like in brotherhood relationship with Bosnia.

edit on 15-4-2011 by ferumbra because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-4-2011 by ferumbra because: .

edit on 15-4-2011 by ferumbra because: (no reason given)

Alots of serb hating going on ATS


the last time i checked Croatian crimes in Bosnia are very well known, you Croatian haven't made an officially for your world war II Crimes agaisnt serbs and other minorities.

Bosnia under Yugoslavia all three ethnic groups lived freely and everyone had jobs,serbs in bosina lived there since the medieval. the Neo Nazis Croatians currently have forgotten the history, no surprise.

Croatia under a democratic, what kind of jobs do you have now eh? none the way i hear it.


I am glad to hear that your little hero got guilty, Bosnian Croatians and Bosnian Muslims did the worst the ethnic cleansing this how there propaganda and defending there criminals work here.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


I don't know where or how do you get your informations but you should recheck all the "facts" you are talking about.

Please do read this article:
KUHNER: The coming Balkan war

reply to post by dario86


and your source is the washingtontimes as in the western press? boy you Croatians are true to your Nazi past.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


It just cute how your only argument is "nazi past"...
You do realize that every nation has something bad in its past? You do realize probably every nation was in war in past? So you could call half of Europe nazi because of its past.

Only the difference is that Croatia had enough of wars and killing, we truly do want peace and to let all that past behind. But TPTB and some nationalists from other countries are still raising tensions.