Debunked! The FBI alien bodies memo – A case study in the reinvention of the wheel

Originally posted by tluna1
reply to post by IsaacKoi

 

so then why even have i in the vault at all if it is just a hoax?

The FBI is the original house of packrats. They and the CIA collect everything, and keep it forever just to have in on hand, just in case. Even the crap evidence is kept, just so you can check to see if it has already been gathered, reviewed and discarded for the crap that it is. Saves time and effort in the long run.

Originally posted by tluna1
reply to post by IsaacKoi

 

so then why even have i in the vault at all if it is just a hoax?

The DOCUMENT is not a hoax. The document is a genuine FBI document. It RELATES to a hoax.

The document is included in the FBI files on UFOs, along with documents on quite a few other hoaxes (some of which were really, really basic hoaxes - including admitted hoaxes). The FBI kept the documents even on hoaxes and, because UFO files are among the more commonly requested files under the Freedom Of Information Act in the USA, the FBI made those UFO files available on its website years ago (and on its new website, "The Vault", when it launched that new interface in 2011).

If you look at another of my threads giving an overview of the FBI's UFO files (and instructions on how to download them with a single click) you'll see quite a few other documents relating to various hoaxes. See, for example, the discussion in Part B1 of that thread at the link below of the "discs recovered" annotation on another memo:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It has to be a hoax if the government says so. The government would never lie to us about anything.

Originally posted by UnBreakable
It has to be a hoax if the government says so. The government would never lie to us about anything.

Well, it isn't just the government that says this documents relates to a hoax.

Quite a few leading pro-alien ufologists have been complaining that this is a hoax that just keeps getting re-circulated without anyone really addressing the evidence that it was a hoax.

See the evidence referred to in Section E of this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by IsaacKoi
Isaac, thanks for posting the release article on Yahoo.

Hey, BTW, how come the Varginha Flap or the Colares (Brazil's Roswell) Flap never made your Top 100 list on your website?? Just asking.

Originally posted by Jaellma
reply to post by IsaacKoi

 

Isaac, thanks for posting the release article on Yahoo.

My pleasure.

Hey, BTW, how come the Varginha Flap or the Colares (Brazil's Roswell) Flap never made your Top 100 list on your website?? Just asking.

That Top 100 list is based simply on the frequency of discussion of each incident in a sample of about 1,000 UFO books I read in the period of about 2003 to 2006. The incidents you mention simply were not mentioned in enough books to be included in the list of the Top 100 most frequently discussed books. The Varginha incident, for example, was only discussed in about a dozen of those books whereas the lowest ranked sighting in the Top 100 list was discussed in 27 books.

I explained this approach on the relevant webpage, which included the following explanation and comments:

www.isaackoi.com...

The list above of the “Top 100” cases therefore has about as much connection to a list of the “Best 100” cases as the weekly “Top 10” popular music charts have to a list of the “best music”. The weekly “Top 10” music charts are lists of the music with the most sales. This is arguably not the same as the best music. Music charts frequently include items that would cause a music connoisseur to shudder (e.g. “The Birdie Song” by The Tweets , Black Lace's “Agadoo”, the Macarena, and anything by Iron Maiden and similar noise-makers (see Footnote 13.02 and Footnote 13.03). Similarly, the fact that Adamski’s sighting is in the list of the Top 100 at all (let alone as the Number 3 case) may cause some shudders.

On the positive side, it makes sense for authors to illustrate their points by reference to cases that readers may be familiar with (i.e. the "classics") so that basic details can be assumed rather than having to have everything spelt out in detail. It is notable that when various ufologists have advanced lists of the “best” UFO cases, generally the only ones that are referred to in subsequent discussions are ones which are included within the “Top 100” list above.

If a ufologist mentions during an online debate his list of the “best” cases and (as happens fairly frequently) includes one or more cases which are not within the “Top 100” list above, the cases not within the “Top 100” are generally ignored in any subsequent discussion. When ufologists do give a list of the “best” cases, they rarely provide references to material relating to these cases. If a case within such a list is not well known, rather than ask for relevant references most readers appear to simply ignore that case. Any ufologist or group preparing a list of the “best” cases may wish to keep this point in mind and include relevant references to any less well known cases.

There are, of course, plenty of other approaches to selecting the best cases. I discuss about a dozen other approaches on my website and plan on posting a relevant fairly large thread in the not too distant future.

It looks like your “hoax” was created by the FBI.

There are 2 possibilities here:

1 There never was a crash at Aztec. Silas Newton and Leo GeBauer were relating the events that they had heard from people at Roswell. Frank Scully repackaged the Roswell story and changed the names to protect the innocent.

2 There was a crash at Aztec.

If there was a third crash, that could be because 2 disc crashed at Roswell. One whose cabin and bodies were found between the debris field and the other, more famous, crash site. Mac Brazel said “they were not green”. The only way he would know this was if someone from the base or crash site had told him ~ OR he knew this because he found his own set of bodies.

Con men, like pilots, presidents and plumbers, can see flying saucers too. The "con men" that Scully had talked to were being tracked by the FBI, at the very least, because they were spreading the Roswell story. The FBI brought them up on charges so they could silence them and their story. That is how cover-ups work. If you think the FBI, NSA, CIA, JPL, NASA, NAVY or any other government involved agency is going to tell you the truth about flying saucers then you are just plain clueless.


"I have been researching Frank Scully and the alleged UFO crash outside of Aztec, N.M. in 1948... Dr. Gee was not or ever will be considered Leo GeBauer. Frank Scully went to his death bed insisting that Dr. Gee was 8–9 different scientists from that time frame. I do agree that Silas Newton was a con man but when you look at the charges that were brought against he and Leo, only one of 23 investor's filed a complaint. The other 23 investor's were not even allowed to testify at the trial! The Mike Conrad story has been around for years. There is no proof whatsoever that he planned this as a hoax. That is another statement that Frank Scully said on his death bed. Mike Conrad never admitted to any hoax and stood by his story until his death. Over 200 pages of files from the F.B.I. on Leo GeBauer have not been released do to "National Security Issues." I have been researching this story for over 16 years, I have over 1,370 documents that certainly spin a new light on this subject."

~ Scott Ramsey

Con Men = National Security Issues? This is the FBI admitting that there is a cover-up over this UFO story.

Ironically American television would make Scully a household name and make the FBI popular again.

www.theaztecincident.com...

www.amazon.com...=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all

reply to post by spiritualarchitect


I have a question, why would the FBI create a hoax they never promoted to the media, only wrote one memo about, and didn't bother with again?

Springer...

This case among others reflects very poorly on the professionalism of many ufologists and paints a dismal picture of the ufo community for anybody even slightly interested in its history.

There're cases which are not obvious hoaxes. Whether they're simple misidentifications or are indeed glimpses of alien vistitors from other places, is probably never going to be resolved.

But it's because not everything is an obvious hoax that the phenomenon even exists. It hinges on the possibility of something unconventional, but never will it yield the sort of answers people want.

When a rational person examines a ufo sighting case they must at some point ask themselves: Which is more likely, alien visitors or misidentification? Keeping in mind that some 95% or more of UFO sightings are in fact clearly misidentifications does not imply the remaining 5% are alien visitors. In fact, all it shows is a lack of evidence to know either way. A reasonable person doesn't automatically think ALIENS when there's a lack of evidence. This is the difference between conspiracy believers and rational people. And this may be why this phenomenon will never go away. So long as there're conspiracy believers and rational people and not either/or, this will go on forever. Of course, it could end tomorrow if aliens actually land, but the conspiracy believers would probably say it's staged.

Now, if suddenly SETI or some amateurs come out and exclaim loudly that an ET signal has been received and is confirmed to be from X star in the direction of X constellation and it's people like Seth Shostak, who're historically ufo skeptics, who're coming out and touting its veracity, I've no doubt in my mind that the conspiracy believers will congest this forum and claim that it's all a form of psychological manipulation by the military complex or some such baloney.

With conspiracy believers, it's all about belief, not about the evidence or lack thereof.

There's a CHANCE that some ufo cases are genuine alien visitations. But this is silly. Example: I still believe in hte very center of the moon is a piece of cheese. PROVE ME WRONG.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
There's a CHANCE that some ufo cases are genuine alien visitations. But this is silly. Example: I still believe in the very center of the moon is a piece of cheese. PROVE ME WRONG.

You got me there! I can't prove it isn't. The center of the Moon certainly has been proven to have the density of cheese. Where is your blog so I can learn more about this Moon cheese kept secret by those bastards at NASA?

Originally posted by Springer
reply to post by spiritualarchitect

 

I have a question, why would the FBI create a hoax they never promoted to the media, only wrote one memo about, and didn't bother with again?

Springer...

yea what he said! Also is the Memo a hoax? Or the investigation into the UFO? I dont get what the hoax is?

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
The media has now picked up on the relevant recent FBI press release, e.g.:

news.yahoo.com...

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has broken its silence on the most popular file in its digital vault.

More of the main stream media has reported on the March 2013 FBI press release, including CNN in the video it uploaded to Youtube on 28 March 2013:

Originally posted by IsaacKoi

Originally posted by karl 12
Good job Isaac and hopefully, thanks to this comprehensive thread, the misunderstanding about the Hottel memo won't occur again in another few years (like it seems to have a tendency of doing)

Thanks for the kind words Karl, but you are more optimistic than me. I expect the same misunderstanding to happen time and time again regardless of anything you or I do...

Isaac, you were right - it's doing the rounds again!

Originally posted by IsaacKoi

as I'm sure you're well aware, there are many other government documents in the public domain which certainly contain very intriguing information about the UFO subject -maybe we'd all be better off if everybody (including the corporate media) concentrated their efforts on those:

link

Sure. I was thinking about pulling some of those documents together and asked just yesterday if anyone was aware of any existing compilations (online or offline) of documents falling within a certain category:
"A compilation of lies?"

All the best,

Isaac

Don't know of any my friend but think it would be very interesting to collate ones dealing with official comments about the nature of the phenomenon or the national security angle - will have a look around as there seems to be quite a few examples out there.

"it's doing the rounds again!"

And again it seems ...

Published on Feb 20, 2015

The Guy Hottel Memo dated March 22, 1950 was submitted by Guy Hottel, the former head of the Washington DC field office for the FBI. According to the memo

Link - www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: easynow
"it's doing the rounds again!"

And again it seems ...

Thanks Easynow. It's been a few months since the last time this went around on Facebook, so we were due to be treated to this nonsense again.

originally posted by: IsaacKoi

originally posted by: easynow
"it's doing the rounds again!"

And again it seems ...

Thanks Easynow. It's been a few months since the last time this went around on Facebook, so we were due to be treated to this nonsense again.

Hey Isaac, your welcome.

I thought you and a few others might be interested in some advanced warning. lol

Probably won't have as much impact as last time around but you never know because there seems to be a market for "Alien Fanatics"

Nevertheless, Thank You for posting this thread and sharing all the brilliant research with everyone.

Cheers

originally posted by: IsaacKoi
in another few months the process will start all over again with few people remembering the current episode.

And here we go again...

The same memo is now circulating on Facebook (without any of the accompanying facts that explain it...) following a new article at the link below which introduces some new distortions of the truth regarding this memo:
journaltelegraph.com...

UFO museum finds PROOF FBI found aliens – and look how concerned the US government was

OK, what do you think about this story - was this an alien robot exo-suit burned up by entry into the atmosphere, or just burned rock assembled in a humanoid shape:

www.allnewscenter.com...


reply to: IsaacKoi