a question for those against social security.

i'm just wondering. in no way am i a huge fan of this policy, but if it was managed correctly, i think it is a viable option.
so, my question is, since it is so easy to just say, awe, nobody should be getting a s.s. retirement check,
i'm wondering how you have been setting yourself up for retirement, do you have enough in savings?
do you plan on working till you die?
my father worked his ass off his entire life, was able to save very little, and relies on his monthly check of about a grand.
personally i think he deserves it, even if i do not agree completely with how the system is run.
seriously, in this day and age a guy/gal would need to be bringing in quite an income in order to be able to put away enough money to retire on.
when i ask questions like this to my more right leaning friends they really have no answer.

actually it's also tied into other topics like health care, say you do have half a mil. in savings, it would only take one accident without one hell of an insurance policy to completely wipe that out.

reply to post by rubbertramp


You act as if Social Security is the only form of retirement investment available.

Why is that?

Ever heard of IRA's? How about a Roth?

Mutual funds?

Social Security is an abomination, and people who choose to rely on that as their only source of income in their retirement years are at best fools, and at worst, downright stupid.

If a person pays into social security they are definitely
entitled to get that money back with a monthly check
when they retire. It isn't free - its more like a
retirement savings that the govt keeps for you
until needed. Its a good idea but needs some
adjustment for sure.

reply to post by ViperChili


What's stupid about the fact that the govt takes SS funds
from your check whether you want them to or not. After
that and taxes are taken out there may not be enough
left over for an IRA or Roth account. Of course those
who make high salaries can afford it but what about
your regular wage earner.

reply to post by crazydaisy


The problem is that the government doesn't keep it.
It is already spent before they get their greedy little hands on it.

reply to post by rubbertramp


Hi There Rubbertramp.

Personally, I feel that Social Security is a must. I am not able to work through illness and if it wasn't there I would starve. It is upto others whether they wish me to live or die, I leave that choice to them.

Yes, your relative deserves that and more. The system is bad. For people who work their whole lives to still not be able to afford retirement, well frankly that stinks. But it is that way for the very vast majority of people.

When I was healthy I never minded paying my taxes and was glad that there was social security.

The reason that social security is in place came out of the total mess of the Victorian era here in Britain. Charles Dickens describes it very very well. You see, where there is utter poverty then all manner of diseases begin to flourish and bacteria know no boundaries of class so even the wealthy get affected.

The moral of this is that look after your weakest, as Jesus and many Holy Men taught, because it will haunt you one day if you don't.

Like Bob Marley said, "For every little action there's a reaction", so think twice about judging the weak when you are strong. Makes for a healthier and happier life for us all.

Peace.

Social security was sold to the American public
as a government run investment fund for retirement.
The benifits were to be paid out of the interest gained
on the huge and growing investment of all American people.

This was the sales pitch anyway.

Now think about all the solutions the Fedal government is offering now.
And compare that to the results we have been seeing.

My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.
-proverbs 1:10

Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:
-Proverbs 1:14

14 trillion dollars later people still think it can be fixed by putting more peoples money into the system.


David Grouchy

p.s. for all the secularist out there, the interest payments on all that debt was supposed to be ours.

reply to post by crazydaisy


having to PAY TAXes on SSA funds is crazy.....

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

You act as if Social Security is the only form of retirement investment available.

Why is that?

Ever heard of IRA's? How about a Roth?

Mutual funds?

Social Security is an abomination, and people who choose to rely on that as their only source of income in their retirement years are at best fools, and at worst, downright stupid.

well, you act as though all americans have a good job with a large corporation.
generally i'd say most of us do not have the income to put much into accounts like you mentioned.
obviously you do, which is both good and bad in my opinion.

reply to post by rubbertramp


As a Brit, I would say that the key part of what you have stated, is "implemented correctly".

It never is. Those in genuine need never receive what they should while those who have no need to receive still take from the system. Because it's their right to do so.

FACT: Your social security number is your federal employee number, by applying for and receiving one, you are accepting the governments authority to impose federal taxes on your income. Without SSI there is no binding contract between you and the Corporate United States of America.

OPINION: Federal taxes deducted from a lifetime of labor will exceed social security benefits payed after retirement, so if you are smart, you wouldn't rely on a third party to retire comfortably. Instead you would begin your own retirement fund, created from the income YOU earned. The fund should be predominantly commodity investments and metals.

reply to post by rubbertramp


Who said anything about working for a large corporation?

Most of the people deemed "wealthy" are small business owners. You know, people who had an idea, put that idea into practice, worked hard and reaped the benefits.

Any number of retirement investments can be opened with very little money. Relying on government to take care of you is indicative of irresponsibility throughout life.

personally, i've done quite well in my gold and silver investments. i started purchasing gold and 275 per ounce and pretty much stopped once it broke 500 per.
i still buy scrap gold and silver when i find it at a good price, but have not bought many coins for a few years.
i think i'll be fine, but have no other savings to really speak of.
no insurance either, so like i mentioned, one good accident could take away a good chumk of my savings.

this may seem like an ignorant question, especially for those in the know, but

is it true that one of the major problems with social security is that the government keeps basically taking the money on an iou basis and does not ever replace it?

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

Who said anything about working for a large corporation?

Most of the people deemed "wealthy" are small business owners. You know, people who had an idea, put that idea into practice, worked hard and reaped the benefits.

Any number of retirement investments can be opened with very little money. Relying on government to take care of you is indicative of irresponsibility throughout life.

it was only an assumption, my basic question in the o.p. was about how we are dealing with this on a personal level.
you haven't said much regarding this and i am interested.
i am also self employed, i haven't has an actual job working for others for 25 of my 47 years.

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

Relying on government to take care of you is indicative of irresponsibility throughout life.

Well, I must be verging on becoming a crazy socialist, but that is very offensive I think.

I don't think I have to explain why. Not everyone is dealt a good hand in life.

Originally posted by DSSONE

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

Relying on government to take care of you is indicative of irresponsibility throughout life.

Well, I must be verging on becoming a crazy socialist, but that is very offensive I think.

I don't think I have to explain why. Not everyone is dealt a good hand in life.

i have a good friend who was basically blown up during the vietnam war.
if it wasn't for the v.a. and a monthly check he receives he'd never have a chance of living on his own.

reply to post by DSSONE


It has nothing to do with the hand you're dealt upon birth. It deals with what hand you make throughout life.

The same money spent on non necessities (cell phone, cable tv/internet, etc etc) could be better spent planning for your future.

reply to post by rubbertramp


Since you have been self employed for 25 years, one must assume you aren't doing all that bad correct?

Assuming such is the case, can I ask what you are doing to plan for your own future (generalities are ok, no need for specifics)?

Originally posted by ViperChili
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

Since you have been self employed for 25 years, one must assume you aren't doing all that bad correct?

Assuming such is the case, can I ask what you are doing to plan for your own future (generalities are ok, no need for specifics)?

look back about 5 replies. already did explain a bit.

reply to post by ViperChili


oh, and viper, seems like we are kinda' getting off on the wrong foot with each other.
sorry if i'm copping a bit of an attitude, but when you said this.

Social Security is an abomination, and people who choose to rely on that as their only source of income in their retirement years are at best fools, and at worst, downright stupid.

it was like you insulted my 78 year old father for not being in a better situation financially.
i'm really not looking for any intense confrontations, just discussion.