Hamas' Powerful New Weapon Alters Strategic Calculations Along the Gaza Strip

Apparently this what hit the bus when it's capable of toasting a tank with thick armor.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by backinblack

 

You argue in favor of targeting civilians. There was no military target. We've all read their Charter and we all know they want all the Jews dead. You side with them, don't be surprised if people assume you also agree with their self-proclaimed goals.

'As long as young people feel they have got no hope but to blow themselves up you are never going to make progress' - Cherie Blair

It adds up if this weapon is designed to explode on impact against a HARD target with armor, not a soft one. It did not detonate because the crappy russian chip controlling it isn't smart enough to realize it just hit its intended target. It probably has a pressure sensor depending on the type of missile that looks for a certain amount of force to be applied to the warhead before it detonates. But since it never hit anything hard enough it went through the flimsy metal of the school bus still seeking its hard target and didn't detonate. It just put a hole in the bus. I've seen this happen in Iraq before in person. I hope that clears up the confusion.

The dummies that used it just wasted a missile that could have taken out a tank. lol

And as someone pointed out earlier, Hamas would fire their weapons from inside of schools and hospitals. The Israelis only did what any other military would do, fire back. Then Hamas likes to show off all the civilian casualties inflicted by the Israelis.

I've seen the same old unrealistic naive posters who put that naivety on display time and time again on ATS, who support terrorist organizations. The Israelis are no angels, but if I took anyone of you liberal weenies in the field for just one day, you'd do a 180 on everything you thought you knew and stop arguing for groups like Hamas.

And even if Hama's origins are from the Mossad to balance out the power, they no longer take their orders from Mossad. That is absurd to even suggest that.

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Oaktree

 

Thats been my question for some time.. What type of missile was used? Has anyone been able to confirm the type?

From Israeli sources the one Oaktree lists is what they say was used..

It really doesn't add up..Nowhere near enough damage..

I'd still like proof that Hamas DELIBERATELY targeted a school bus...

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Why are you such a propagandist for such evil people. You a member?

I think alot of people (on ats) are simply anti government...and take that to the extreme..not only to believe the government is telling a lie, but that whatever the government or media says, the exact opposite is true by default.

so, government/media says palestinians attack israel, what they hear is israel attacks palestinians..and until it is proven otherwise (impossible, since all proof is clearly just government/media disinformation, even if the head of hamas jumps up and down and says I did it), they will believe the exact opposite of whatever is said.

Its one thing to question government...thats healthy, thats needed...its another thing to immediately believe whole heartedly the opposite of what is being suggested no matter what the case.

that is no longer being skeptical, that is simply falling for the opposing sides propaganda and government/media. Sort of funny, jump out of the frying pan right into foreign fires.

I think it would be healthy to simply state "I don't know what to believe...I want it to be easy, but the world simply isn't easy"...then at least your being honest.


I tend to side with israel for the big stuff, however, I admit I may be a product of propaganda designed to have me think this way...Its why I continue to read alternative sources to get different perspectives...I will say, if my entire viewpoint is a product of just propaganda, they did a damn good job of it considering no matter where I read, all the facts from different perspectives tend to paint the same picture with only a little bit of variation.

Originally posted by wakeUpOrDie
The Israelis are no angels, but if I took anyone of you liberal weenies in the field for just one day, you'd do a 180 on everything you thought you knew and stop arguing for groups like Hamas.

Oi, this isn't a libera/conservative thing at all...I am a proud lib and am fully in support of israel (ok, fully is a stretch, but definately 75/25). Don't bring partisan american crap into this subject.

else I will bring pro-tooth decay as a conservative ideal!

got it bucko?!!

seriously though, drop that crap...the more you fabricate a viewpoint based on a political stance of fiscal and social issues, the less credibility you give your argument.

People are still buying the crap that anti-tank hit the bus?

And on top of that the smart rocket became dumb because stone throwers were firing it?

What' next? The rocket realized that it was the 'G-d's Chosen People' so it controlled itself from 'BOOM'?

The arguments are just getting funnier.

lol. The smart rocket did not 'become dumb'. The way the weapon was used was dumb. Would you use a wrench to hammer a nail? They basically used the wrong tool for the job.

I hope this isn't over your head. This weapon has a pressure sensor to detect that it has indeed come in contact with a HARD TARGET. The school bus's flimsy metal was not strong enough to trip the pressure sensor to detonate the warhead. Its really not that hard to understand. It has nothing to do with who fired it and how dumb they are. They are only dumb for firing the missile at something it wasn't intended to destroy. As I said, wrong tool for the job.

Originally posted by forklift
People are still buying the crap that anti-tank hit the bus?

And on top of that the smart rocket became dumb because stone throwers were firing it?

What' next? The rocket realized that it was the 'G-d's Chosen People' so it controlled itself from 'BOOM'?

The arguments are just getting funnier.

I posted 1 line in my post that had the word 'liberal' and that sent you through the roof. That's kinda funny.

But most of those who seem to defend terrorist organizations tend to be liberal.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by wakeUpOrDie
The Israelis are no angels, but if I took anyone of you liberal weenies in the field for just one day, you'd do a 180 on everything you thought you knew and stop arguing for groups like Hamas.

Oi, this isn't a libera/conservative thing at all...I am a proud lib and am fully in support of israel (ok, fully is a stretch, but definately 75/25). Don't bring partisan american crap into this subject.

else I will bring pro-tooth decay as a conservative ideal!

got it bucko?!!

seriously though, drop that crap...the more you fabricate a viewpoint based on a political stance of fiscal and social issues, the less credibility you give your argument.

reply to post by wakeUpOrDie


Just hold on a sec:

So now you're telling me that an anti-tank rocket will not blow up a 'soft-target' like a light armor vehicle, a car or a bus?

No wonder Libyan rebels are doing so well in their pick-up trucks against Gadaffi's T-72's and anti-tank rockets, makes sense now.

Like I said this crap just keeps getting funnier.

maybe hamas needs a bunch of play stations with grand theft auto so they can act out there aggression on virtual school kids.

light armor, yes,
T-72s, yes,
But a flimsy body of a school bus, no. I have seen this same thing in Iraq. I've seen anti tank missiles go clean through 2 walls of a house and hit the tank and kill it on the other side. I've also seen them go through the back of an army supply truck and just put a hole in the side of it without exploding.

I'd suggest you stop posting on this topic. You are showing your ignorance with every word you type regarding this.

fyi - not all anti tank missile are create equally. some WILL detonate on impact with anything. it depends on the type of missile

Originally posted by forklift
reply to post by wakeUpOrDie

 

Just hold on a sec:

So now you're telling me that an anti-tank rocket will not blow up a 'soft-target' like a light armor vehicle, a car or a bus?

No wonder Libyan rebels are doing so well in their pick-up trucks against Gadaffi's T-72's and anti-tank rockets, makes sense now.

Like I said this crap just keeps getting funnier.

reply to post by SeventhSeal

Ahem, time to come back to reality. Ok? Cool.
This whole "Israel is so bad and evil" argument has been exhausted and worn out. Both sides are wrong when it comes to extremism. BOTH sides.

Clearly it's not worn out as many people love to argue the issue and after all who can blame them when 'notions' of 'Israel' the formerly known Roman States of Judea and Samaria sit at the 'heart' of three of the earth's five major religions with 3 out of every 5 human beings alive subscribing to one of those 3 major religions.

So no people aren't going to stop arguing about it, in part because about the only thing that makes those religions seem real since the faith based god involved in them never makes an appearance on Oprah or the View is religious prophecies.

Propecies that often revolve around Jerusalem.

However when the modern state of Israel was created it was born of a manipulation through a London Banker, one Lord Rothschild to be precise and not because a Jewish Messiah appeared to lead the faithful back to Judea and Samaria as actual biblical prophecy stated.

Since then that intriquing bit of land acquisition has given rise to a whole new brand of politics and alliances and diplomacy that in many way has been marching us closer and closer to a one world government.

Also foretold of by the Bible but likewise coming slowly about in a very different way than was foretold.

Continuing on and the turmoil this state has caused, often supported or opposed by those so religiously inclined has taken a vital commodity oil, that many of us are enslaved to, as are our nations and resulted in what was once a cheap pennies for gallon commodity into one of the single highest monthly expenditures for most consumers who need it for fuel for their vehicles and homes and the oil companies into the most profitible 'legal' businesses on earth.

Finally and most distrubing to someone who can weed through all the emotional and religious pit falls and see it all in it's entirety it's also been used at the pretext for the "Modern Day Police State" as security 'concious' citizens and otherwise, are bullied by their governments to give up rights and accept a constantly growing intrusive security apparatus as a counter measure to 'reprisals' by fundamentalists, who are basically opposed to how the land Israel now occupies was stolen through broken treaties and violence and what are clear cut International Standards their nations typically have to pay homage to and abide aren't likewise applied to Israel.

So yeah I hate to break it to you, nothing against the Jews of the world in which I happily proclaim many to be a friend and they in return, and nothing against the Israelis of the world, in which I happily proclaim many to be a friend and they in return, but Israel is a huge problem that effects us all in many ways the average person doesn't always appreciate, consider or realize.

Including but not limited too.

1. The high cost of oil.
2. The advent of the security state.
3. Political Correctness and a hostile environment for discussing issues openly.
4. A tool to manipulate the religious masses on both sides of a divide to support wars and violence.

So all in all Israel really is a 'mutual' problem and it is a problem because it is absolutely being used as a tool by International Corporations and many Governments and Religions as a means to manipulate us all.

Fail to wake up to that reality and address the big picture and you will end up with most of biblical prophecy becoming true to the extent that a powerful one world government police state after a horrific war will end up ruling over and dictating to us all with the kind of technology your musket isn't going to stand well up too.

It is what it is, and what it is is not pretty, but I for one would like to see the whole area evacuated, cordoned off with a couple thousand miles of police tape and just keep everyone on all sides out of the place until we can learn to solve our differences and be responsible in a mature manner.

Israel is nothing but a prize in a grown up game of king of the hill that the world's wealthiest and most powerful men are playing with us as game pieces.

Many enjoy being pawns on each side, as many wait for a mythical and etheral king to return to rule over them once again all connected to 'notions' of Israel.

We could be better than this, and we could be smarter than this, but no matter which box you are stuck in, when it comes to our societal constructs Israel and 'notions' of it are at the very center of it, right up to and including the Divine Right of Kings and the Sovereignty of Nations who's power and authority are presumed to stem from the God of Israel.

I can't say how it's all going to end, but it's going to end ugly because it was designed specifically for that.

People stop arguing about it?

In case you haven't figured it out the whole thing was designed for people to never stop arguing about it.

apparently he has no idea how an anti tank weapon works - tanks besides being armor plated use reactive armor a counter explosive designed to deflect damage away from the tank, an anti tank missle can't just hit a tank and blow up it has to impact with sufficient force in order to successfully deploy in most cases a copper spike or other former of armor penetration. Modern tanks dont go down with old soviet RPG's like a school bus would so these missles have to be way more advanced than a simple flying explosive.

reply to post by backinblack


CBC News

The violence escalated a week ago when an Israeli airstrike killed three Hamas militants who Israel said were planning a cross-border kidnapping. On Thursday, Hamas militants fired a guided anti-tank missile at an Israeli school bus, wounding the two people on board, including a teenage boy who was critically hurt.

Aljazeera

Hamas takes responsibility

The al-Qassam Brigades, the armed wing of the Hamas movement, said it had shot two missiles early in the day, one of which had hit the school bus. The Brigades said the attack came in reponse to Israel's killing of three of its members last week.

Lebanon Daily Star

Political analysts in Gaza said Hamas wanted to bolster its claim to leadership of the divided Palestinian national movement and divert attention from popular demands – fueled by the “Arab Spring” – for an end to the split with its Fatah rivals.

That spurt of violence subsided but fighting flared again Thursday when Hamas gunmen fired an anti-tank missile at an Israeli school bus, wounding two. Israel retaliated with planes and armor, killing five Palestinians.

Turkeys Daily News - English edition

Palestinian officials reported tank fire toward Gaza shortly after the missile attack. The Israeli fire killed a 50-year-old man and wounded seven people, said Palestinian health official Adham Abu Salmiya.

Times of India

NAHAL: Hamas militants fired an anti-tank missile at an Israeli school bus on Thursday, critically injuring a teenager, prompting the army to pound the the Gaza Strip, killing four and wounding more than 30.

After the missile slammed into the bus, the Palestinians lobbed at least 45 mortar rounds and several rockets into southern Israel, hitting a house, and the army responded by staging multiple raids across the enclave.

.........................

The bus attack was claimed by the military wing of Hamas and was the first time an anti-tank missile from Gaza had hit a civilian target in Israel, prompting Israel to vow a harsh response.

........................

Hamas's Ezzedine Al-Qassam Brigades, claimed responsibility, saying it was an "initial response" to Israel killing three of the group's leaders on Saturday, when an air strike hit their car in southern Gaza.

Focus.net

Gaza City. The military wing of Hamas on Thursday claimed responsibility for firing an anti-tank missile at an Israeli school bus, the Al-Qassam Brigades said in a statement, AFP reported.
"Al-Qassam Brigades claims responsibility for targeting the bus of the occupation," the statement said, adding that it was in response to Israel killing three of the group's leaders last week.

NowLebanon News

The military wing of Hamas on Thursday claimed responsibility for firing an anti-tank missile at an Israeli school bus, the Al-Qassam Brigades said in a statement.

"Al-Qassam Brigades claims responsibility for targeting the bus of the occupation," the statement said, adding that it was in response to Israel killing three of the group's leaders last week.

Palestinian Times
Here Hamas now claims the School Bus was a valid military target because it belonged to ISrael.

أكد أبو عبيدة الناطق باسم كتائب القسام الجناح العسكري لحماس أن العدو الصهيوني يتحمل مسؤولية التصعيد في غزة والذي أسفر عن استشهاد ما يزيد عن خمسين فلسطيني وإصابة العشرات خلال الأسابيع القليلة الماضية ، مضيفا أن المقاومة تستهدف مواقعاً عسكرية لا كما يزعم الاحتلال أنها مدنية.

ونفى أبو عبيدة في مؤتمر صحفي عقده عصر السبت في غزة مزاعم الاحتلال بأن الحافلة التي استهدفتها كتائب القسام قرب ما يسمى كفار سعد شرق غزة أنها مدنية مؤكدا أنها حافلة تتنقل بين مواقع عسكرية وتمر على طريق عسكري يشكل حزاما أمنيا لتحرك الدبابات التي تطلق القذائف بحق شعبنا.

وشدد الناطق باسم القسام أن إصرار العدو على المضي في عدوانه الهمجي لن "يثنينا عن الرد بالطريقة المناسبة ، مشيرا إلى أنه لا يمكن الحديث عن تهدئة بينما الاحتلال يرتكب المجازر بحق أبناء شعبنا.

وختم أبو عبيدة بتجديد العهد على المضي "جهادنا وثورتنا ضد الاحتلال ومعنا كل الثوار والأحرار في العالم حتى تحرير فلسطين"

English Translation

Confirmed Abu Obeida, a spokesman for al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas military wing, that the Zionist enemy has the responsibility for the escalation in Gaza which resulted in the martyrdom of more than 50 Palestinians and wounding dozens in the past few weeks, adding that the resistance targets military sites, not as the occupation is alleged to be civilian.

I can continue to give you the information you asked for, but at some point you are going to have to actually read it and accept:

* Hamas did fire a guided missile
* Hamas targeted the School bus intentionally with that guided missile
* Hamas claims the school bus is a valid military target

If any child is hurt or killed, it is unforgivable, the only crime a child commits is being born to his/her parents,

By the way, it is not the Jewish population or the Palestinian people, it is their leaders calling the shots.

reply to post by munkey66


EDIT - REmoved post because munkey changed some of the content in his post, making my post an incorrect post, which resulted in a double post with the same info, when that second post was not needed at all.

Post changed

reply to post by Xcathdra


Oh no a glitch in the HB Gary Software! Your RSS Paste feed appears to be stuck!



By the way how do you reconcile so many different news agencies reporting from the same source different versions of the stament, based on a one paragraph on a hamas web site up to and including creating a quoted statement hamas never made in it's cominique?

reply to post by Xcathdra


once again we are all victims of the media it would seem.
news reports handed out rather than journalists investigating.

copy and paste is a fun game, has anyone actually asked the guy who fired it?
has anyone asked a witness to the incident.
I would certainly hate to be convicted on the bases of so called media reports because we know that they are very independent and never get it wrong.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The info is there, the quotes by the Hamas spokesperson is their:

Caliming responsibility for the missile attack
Claiming respoinsibility for targeting the School bus

You are more than welcome to continue to live in denila on this topic. Fact of the matter is though you and Backinblack have done nothing but disregard all the info presented, while offering up absolutely NO cooroborating info to suppoort your claims.

When you can post information that contradicts the facts, feel free.

Originally posted by Smurfwicked

Hamas’ recent use of a Russian-made, laser-guided anti-tank missile against a school bus marks a clear change in the strategic balance along the fragile Gaza-Israel border: By either fate, or perhaps design, the Hamas attack comes just as Israel deployed its “Iron Dome” missile defense system that has rendered Hamas’ Grad rockets almost useless against civilian targets.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Best way to make the most cash from a war : keep arming both sides so it doesn't stop.