War crime? U.S. Troops Fire on Iraqi Detainees (Video)

reply to post by Sek82




Thank you for posting this.

Originally posted by P3ACE0WAR
reply to post by Sek82

 

Thank you for posting this.

Here is the rest of the missing information -

Source - wiki overview of the camp

On 31 January 2005, a riot broke out in which detainees threw rocks and fashioned weapons out of tent poles. The riot was dispelled by the use of lethal force. Four detainees were killed and six were injured. As is standard procedure in all cases of prison riots and the use of lethal force, the matter was investigated by the U.S. Army’s Criminal Investigations Division. The investigation concluded that a detainee leader had incited the riot by making an accusation that camp soldiers were stepping on Korans during a search for contraband. No soldiers were found guilty of any wrongdoing during the incident.[3]

Washington Post
Huffington Post

Camp Bucca - Video and additional information

The Video

1) The video captures the shooting of non-lethal bullets by U.S. military police against rioting Iraqis at the Iraqi prison facility Camp Bucca, compound 7 & 8 during the year 2005. The exact date is unknown. It was filmed by a member of the military police, Joseph E. Rey.

and this

Troops shot the four dead with rifles after failing to quell the riot with plastic pellets fired from shotguns.

The info above coming from a site about US warcrimes and other issues they have with America.

and here is the PressTV article on it -
Lets see how it differs from

PressTV

The footage shows US forces using disproportionate force and live rounds against prisoners at the US prison facility Camp Bucca located in Iraq.

The Iraqi detainees were protesting the American troops' desecration of Islam's holy book, the Qur'an.

At the time, the US military tried to cover up the bloodshed, saying the riot happened when the prisoners confronted a search for contraband in the prison.

But the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) later revealed that the real cause of the riot was the desecration of the Holy Qur'an by US troops.

Four prisoners were shot dead and five others wounded during the violence.

In 2008, the US military revealed that it held a total of around 20,000 detainees, some 17,000 of whom at Camp Bucca near Basra in southern Iraq, and more than 3,000 others at Camp Cropper in the capital Baghdad.

Lets see....

Quran was burned or stepped on, depending on the news article by presstv and prison planet - False
ACLU confirmed the Quran was defaced - False

ACLU Overview

Yet another file describes an investigation of a riot at a U.S. interment facility at Camp Bucca, Iraq, evidently related to claims that U.S. personnel had defaced the Qur’an. At least four Iraqi prisoners were shot and killed by Coalition Forces during the disturbance.

ACLU Document archive
Ive been through the archive about a dozen times now and I am not finding the document PRessTV is using as a source.

So yeah, not all of the information was released, and the reason for the riot, stated as fact by PressTV, is in fact, not true. There are those who dont want to beleive anything western media says, and all I can say is that is your choice. However, I would like to point out that detainees have been trained to make false allegations against the holding country.

Why would they do this?

Because unlike several Middle East countries, the US is compelled to investigate the claims. I cant see that happening in Iran.

reply to post by Xcathdra


So you've gone from agreeing it was a training video to now admitting it was the real deal but with your usual twist..

I love it..So at least Iranian media WAS reporting a REAL event..
I wonder if it rated a mention on your beloved Fox ??

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

So you've gone from agreeing it was a training video to now admitting it was the real deal but with your usual twist..

I love it..So at least Iranian media WAS reporting a REAL event..
I wonder if it rated a mention on your beloved Fox ??

You really need to learn English comprehension and go back and actually READ my posts.

PressTV lied in their article.
The video shows troops firing rubber bulletts
The 4 people who were shot failed to cease their activities.

The OP article, as well as Press TV states the video shows live rounds being fired, which is clearly a lie.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by P3ACE0WAR

 

Its easy to research...

Pull up Foxnews - Search for any article that portrays the government, or any ranking individual currently in the government, in a bad light

Pull up MSNBC - Search for any article that portrays the government, or any ranking individual currently in the government, in a bad light

Pull up BBC - Search for any article that portrays the government, or any ranking individual currently in the government, in a bad light

Pull up PressTV - Search for any article that portrays the government, or any ranking individual currently in the government, in a bad light

On those 4 sites, use the search feature and do a search for any topic that deals with government issues that portray the in power government in a bad light.

Do the same search for government officals and see what comes up.

edit on 13-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

I have said many times I don't disagree with you on that area, that PressTV doesn't have the freedom to report all subjects, all topics, all issues.. You and I both know the same is true for MSM, unless you disagree.

At this point I have hit a brick wall, and it is too solid for me

Not having the ability to report on everything doesn't mean what you do report on isn't credible. I have repeated for the third time now, but I'm sorry to bother you.

Have a good night.

reply to post by Xcathdra


So you believe US propaganda over Iranian propaganda??

The truth is probably somewhere in between..
I don't for a second believe and investigation by US military of their own soldiers actions..

Originally posted by P3ACE0WAR
I have said many times I don't disagree with you on that area, that PressTV doesn't have the freedom to report all subjects, all topics, all issues.. You and I both know the same is true for MSM, unless you disagree.

At this point I have hit a brick wall, and it is too solid for me

Not having the ability to report on everything doesn't mean what you do report on isn't credible. I have repeated for the third time now, but I'm sorry to bother you.

Have a good night.

Not a wall at all. My argument thus far has revolved around PressTV and how they misreport, leave out information, obfuscate facts and flat out lie, like in this case - This is what I am talking about with PressTV -

Originally posted by Xcathdra
and here is the PressTV article on it -
Lets see how it differs from

PressTV

The footage shows US forces using disproportionate force and live rounds against prisoners at the US prison facility Camp Bucca located in Iraq.

The Iraqi detainees were protesting the American troops' desecration of Islam's holy book, the Qur'an.

At the time, the US military tried to cover up the bloodshed, saying the riot happened when the prisoners confronted a search for contraband in the prison.

But the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) later revealed that the real cause of the riot was the desecration of the Holy Qur'an by US troops.

Four prisoners were shot dead and five others wounded during the violence.

In 2008, the US military revealed that it held a total of around 20,000 detainees, some 17,000 of whom at Camp Bucca near Basra in southern Iraq, and more than 3,000 others at Camp Cropper in the capital Baghdad.

Lets see....

Quran was burned or stepped on, depending on the news article by presstv and prison planet - False
ACLU confirmed the Quran was defaced - False

ACLU Overview

Yet another file describes an investigation of a riot at a U.S. interment facility at Camp Bucca, Iraq, evidently related to claims that U.S. personnel had defaced the Qur’an. At least four Iraqi prisoners were shot and killed by Coalition Forces during the disturbance.

ACLU Document archive
Ive been through the archive about a dozen times now and I am not finding the document PRessTV is using as a source.

So yeah, not all of the information was released, and the reason for the riot, stated as fact by PressTV, is in fact, not true. There are those who dont want to beleive anything western media says, and all I can say is that is your choice. However, I would like to point out that detainees have been trained to make false allegations against the holding country.

Why would they do this?

Because unlike several Middle East countries, the US is compelled to investigate the claims. I cant see that happening in Iran.

Everyting PressTV claims in this article is in fact a lie. The soldiers in the video are firing rubber bullets. The reason for the riot as claimed by PressTV revolves around the Quran, which is a lie. It says troops fired indiscriminately, which is a lie, since the only people who were killed were the 4 who failed to cease their actions.

Send some more clarifying info the the editors of PressTV with the request that they publish a clarification and see if it happens.

Not having the ability to report on every topic... Not haveing the ability to report all the facts, or sides, of a story, is not journalism.

Its nothing more than a court stenographer.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

So you believe US propaganda over Iranian propaganda??

The truth is probably somewhere in between..
I don't for a second believe and investigation by US military of their own soldiers actions..

Where the hell are you pulling training video from? I never said that.,

Tell you what, read the OP article, then read the PressTV article, and you will notice a MAJOR flaw in it. There are absolutely NO sources listed. NO interviews of anyone, either US military, or anyone from the Prison (which has been shut down for a few years now). Only 4 people were killed, about 6 injured. PressTV did not bother to find them and interview them. They never bothered to track down any number of the hundreds of prisoners who were present for that incident. The Camp held close to 14k people through its use..

Your telling me they could not find ONE person to go on record and confirm anything?

They say the ACLU confirmed the quran issue, when in fact they did nothing of the sort, and I linked that in my response above.

No sources - No corroboration of their claims - No Investigation done by any of their journalists - Reporting on a Story in 2011 when it occured in 2005...

To me it appers with all of the internal issues they are having, they are once again playing a game of wag the dog to focus anger back on the great satan, and away from the boobs who run Iran.

How is that credible?

Originally posted by HomerinNC
fail thread, this was a training op
do some research next time

It would now appear that you were wrong dude, and going by your avatar it tells us what the real problem the west has ..... a bunch of gun totting, trigger happy, idiots, who shoot first and cover up later.

reply to post by bigyin

Originally posted by P3ACE0WAR
reply to post by Sek82

 

Thank you for posting this.

Here is the rest of the missing information -

Source - wiki overview of the camp

On 31 January 2005, a riot broke out in which detainees threw rocks and fashioned weapons out of tent poles. The riot was dispelled by the use of lethal force. Four detainees were killed and six were injured. As is standard procedure in all cases of prison riots and the use of lethal force, the matter was investigated by the U.S. Army’s Criminal Investigations Division. The investigation concluded that a detainee leader had incited the riot by making an accusation that camp soldiers were stepping on Korans during a search for contraband. No soldiers were found guilty of any wrongdoing during the incident.[3]

Washington Post
Huffington Post

Camp Bucca - Video and additional information

The Video

1) The video captures the shooting of non-lethal bullets by U.S. military police against rioting Iraqis at the Iraqi prison facility Camp Bucca, compound 7 & 8 during the year 2005. The exact date is unknown. It was filmed by a member of the military police, Joseph E. Rey.

and this

Troops shot the four dead with rifles after failing to quell the riot with plastic pellets fired from shotguns.

The info above coming from a site about US warcrimes and other issues they have with America.

lol
I told ya on page 2
those were rubber bullets

reply to post by Xcathdra


This is getting too long, you are either a US soldier, or veteran I suspect, sorry for the assumption but I have only met the Semper Fi crowd who never give up against the defense of US.

#Live ammunition or not - "The U.S. military said guards opened fire about 45 minutes into the riot, when verbal warnings and nonlethal measures failed to subdue the rioters."
Source - CNN

Non-lethal weapons are suppose to be non-lethal, when four people are killed, it is regarded as lethal.

"Only after two Army guards in separate towers opened fire with M-16 rifles, killing the inmates, did the violence subside."
Source - Washingtonpost

#Purpose behind the riot - The US statements said the riots started when they were searching for "contraband". So what happened? Is it that uncommon for American troops to not give a damn about the Quran? "A Muslim cleric complained that the soldiers damaged several Korans. Soon, masses of prisoners formed and pressed up against the compound's front fence, chanting and shouting.
Source - Washingtonpost

I'm really disgusted by people saying "War Crimes!" "Oh look at what the troops are doing now!"

You know what? Here's the deal. After 9-11, this country called for blood. I was lucky enough to join and become a Special Operations Soldier early on in the war.

I had a clear objective. Our mission statement didn't leave much to the imagination. We not only knew what we were doing, but we had the security clearance to know why we were doing it. To this day, I'm not ok with what happened during the war. However, that was war. War is ugly. It's not fun.

It's bad for the guys going in and the guys who were there long before we entered the area.

Do you guys know how scary it is for kids to go to a country where their brothers are killed without a mission objective? They don't know what to do.

I just had to console a long time friend of mine because of this. He will never be the same. People like me had it lucky because we had the support of the people and a clear mission objective.

Before you condemn people. Understand some things.

*Bad things happen in war. I often wonder what people think war looks like. It's not rainbows and bunnies. It's blood and gore. I was an operative who was no longer active after 08'. I still have nightmares. All this and knowing I did the right thing. I had access to information and knew what I was doing. It didn't make it any easier.

*Assholes are in every facet of public service. You've all seen them. There are prick cops. There are prick lawyers and judges. There are prick pizza guys and maintenance men. We've been at war for about ten years now. Assholes will happen. I'm not ok with it. You're not ok with it. When I was in combat, the men I served with weren't ok with it. It happens.

*None of us, and I mean NONE OF US asked for this. I didn't want to go to combat. I was a photographer. I took damn pictures for a living. I joined the military because the people of the united states called for all able bodied men to answer the call for vengeance. You, American citizens, by a large majority, asked for this. If you don't like it, vote for someone who will either win the war, or will end it. At this point, I don't care. Win it, or end it.

If you are ready to bash troops for crap politicians asked us to do, and then leave us in the lurch, then screw you. You have a vote, kick them out. You have the power to end the war.

We don't want to be there. We don't want crazy people doing ill in our name. Vote the pricks out of office. Don't lump us all in the same category of blood lusting psychopaths. That's like making a generality of black people robing liquor stores. Jewish people hording money or whatever.

It's the same crap.

Originally posted by P3ACE0WAR
This is getting too long, you are either a US soldier, or veteran I suspect, sorry for the assumption but I have only met the Semper Fi crowd who never give up against the defense of US.

Its not getting to long at all. All I have done is provided information and links to support the argument that PRessTV, and a few people in this thread, are wrong about what occured.

I amm not military, and have never been military. Just because I support the military doesnt make me part of it. Again though, I support the military in this case, because PressTV is lieing about what occured, and people are buying it hook line and sinker.

Originally posted by P3ACE0WAR
#Live ammunition or not - "The U.S. military said guards opened fire about 45 minutes into the riot, when verbal warnings and nonlethal measures failed to subdue the rioters."
Source - CNN

Non-lethal weapons are suppose to be non-lethal, when four people are killed, it is regarded as lethal.

Absolutely incoreect about non lethal, and the correct term by the way is less than lethal. If you disagree with that, then have someone shoot a beanbag round at you from 5 feet and see what happens. Also, no one was killed by the less than lethal rounds according to multiple news sources.

Originally posted by P3ACE0WAR
"Only after two Army guards in separate towers opened fire with M-16 rifles, killing the inmates, did the violence subside."
Source - Washingtonpost

Correct again - 4 detainees were targeted because they failed to cease their actions when confronted with the less than lethal rounds. Its a prison, not a sports club.

Originally posted by P3ACE0WAR
#Purpose behind the riot - The US statements said the riots started when they were searching for "contraband". So what happened? Is it that uncommon for American troops to not give a damn about the Quran? "A Muslim cleric complained that the soldiers damaged several Korans. Soon, masses of prisoners formed and pressed up against the compound's front fence, chanting and shouting.
Source - Washingtonpost

edit on 13-4-2011 by P3ACE0WAR because: I don't even know why I'm wasting my time

edit on 13-4-2011 by P3ACE0WAR because: just made it shorter for faster read

How are you getting defacing the Quran off of searching for conraband. News accounts go on to state that the quran issue was masterminded by several eladers in the prison specifically to incite a riot. Any reason you glossed over that?

The ACLU requested the files on the Camp Baccu incident, and took no action, which speaks volumes.


If the US is in the wrong, I will make no qualsm about holding them accountible, and I have done that in many posts now. What I look for first though, is accuracy in the report. In this case, PressTV never cites a source at all, no interviews, nothing.

Thats the second red flag (first being PressTVs involvement). Then I look for other news sources to see if there is other information, and in this case, there is a LOT of additional information that is left out, namely the fact PressTV mentions nothing about less than lethal force. They use the term firing indisicriminately into the crowd, which is a lie.

Thats my point.

reply to post by 43mike



These assholes that you keep running into, did you ever turn any of them in ?

Or did you turn a blind eye ?

reply to post by Xcathdra


They did shoot live rounds, they did kill 4 people and injure more with live rounds, they did desecrate the Quran, they did laugh at prisoners being shot at... You can twist this how ever you want, in the end you are only fooling yourself.

Now continue...

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Video is from PressTV. Iranian government "news" service. And parroted by infowars.

This is absolute fail.

x
wasn't faux news just busted fauxing footage?
oh yes they were
haha
good place to git yer news there


from the comments at the link in the OP:

patriotsaint says:
April 12, 2011 at 9:25 pm
Really people! Understand there are two sides to every story…. Let me help the less fortunate with this two minute video:
First, the soldiers are firing bean bag bullets( no automatic fire)
Second, the soldier throwing what would appear to be a frag grenade, was actually a CS grenade.

Originally posted by HomerinNC
fail thread, this was a training op
do some research next time

cmon you can do better than that... again you have provided no information and no credence to your statement...

kx