Scientific PROOF of Teleportation, telekinesis and channeling!!!

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Your mindset you wrote of how anything yet undiscovered must be magical only proves that you are unable to understand progression and development of forces in nature and their use.

The fact that you used such metaphors only proves you are unable to apply relevant analogy. I've already referred others to a source which details actual science relative to things like teleportation and telekinesis with the aid of technology. This article, however, attempts to validate our current understanding of "psi abilities" - which IS magical thinking - using quantum physics as the support. Nice try though. Next time read some more of my posts before arriving at incorrect assumptions.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Spot on.

Thank you.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
What your arguing is that someone somewhere is considering challenging current understandings...says more about you than them to be complaining about it to begin with...should the scientific community simply never consider anything new because someone may object to it on religious grounds?

I never said any such thing nor argued for it. I simply don't see any science or experimentation in the paper and I'm uncertain that this paper represents anyone in "the scientific community". Also, attempting to answer pseudoscientific claims with quantum mysteries, though common, is historically a failure and should be a red flag.

I appreciate what your saying overall, however, your confusing the OPs thread title (proof) with this guys hypothesis. Consider the character assassination going on already by some here not for what this guy is claiming as proof, but what someone else (then ops) has labelled on him.

That it's not proof is irrelevant. That the OP and others see this as "scientific" is the problem.

Originally posted by cLOUDDEAD

Originally posted by traditionaldrummerWhat legitimate scientist/researcher uses the word "till" instead of "until"?

What legitimate "skeptic" uses such an utterly weak argument? Till & until are interchangeable, by the way. Also, not all scientists/researchers are native English speakers.

edit on 13-4-2011 by cLOUDDEAD because: (no reason given)

I admitted it was nitpicking, though it was an immediate clue that something wasn't right. Also "till" is not interchangeable with "until". The correct abbreviated version of "until" would be " 'til ". Again, I am nitpicking. Fear not though, I provided more meaty analysis of the paper in later posts.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
This article, however, attempts to validate our current understanding of "psi abilities" - which IS magical thinking - using quantum physics as the support. Nice try though.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here, have you ever heard of the phrase "argument from ignorance"?

Do you have a scientific study that definitely proves all "psi abilities" are impossible, or are you arguing from ignorance since you suppose science has yet to validate anything like that?

I understand that you think you're taking the logical position, but argument from ignorance is actually a logical fallacy. Just because something was never proven before doesn't mean it's going to follow that it will never be proven. That just doesn't even make sense.

IMHO much more stunning than the aforementioned conclusions that many of us take for granted is the fact that this information was released without a post mortum of the author's "suicide."

What this tells me is that TPTB is losing control. Either their scientists are no longer afraid of them or the lid is fixing to blow clean off and they're leaking steam to lessen the explosion when ATS, C2C and Infowars become the MSM!

Originally posted by bsbray11
Just to play Devil's Advocate here, have you ever heard of the phrase "argument from ignorance"?

Do you have a scientific study that definitely proves all "psi abilities" are impossible, or are you arguing from ignorance since you suppose science has yet to validate anything like that?

You call me out on what you believe to be a logical fallacy and then base that assumption on... a logical fallacy?

Nice.

It's not the job of science to "prove all psi abilities are impossible". It's the job of the claimant to establish his claims.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
This article, however, attempts to validate our current understanding of "psi abilities" - which IS magical thinking.

Magic? magnets? propaganda by the soviets? I am unsure and on the fence (gut tells me the last two), but either way, such things should be investigated verses just dismissed due to a inability to understand what nature -may- be.

You say magic, I say scientific anomoly. your way has you dismiss the entire topic based simply on a viewpoint based in data available. my way encourages testing and uncovering for new data.

My way is progressive, your way is stagnation. I prefer my stand due to enjoying progression in society and new cool tech that comes from newly discovered technology.

Sorry you don't like quantum physics btw..but I can be encouraged that people like you do not make up the root of the scientific community anyhow

It is difficult to put a price tag on the amount of current U.S. gross domestic product that would not exist without the discoveries of the electron and quantum mechanics. But it would likely reach into the trillions of dollars. The inventions of the computer, the transistor, and the World Wide Web are also at the root of billions or trillions of dollars of our economy. The laser is used in fiber optics, which are the basis for a global telecommunications industry worth over a trillion dollars.

Incidently, I do understand what you are attempting to say...the mysterious nature at the quantum level and how its currently still unknown and debated is being used to prove the likelyhood of everything from time travel, to deitys, etc...QP has become the pretend science to establish anything you can think of as based in reality...and to that, I do find it to be pesky and annoying..however, like any bad with good, if people are allowed to dream a bit on something that isn't, some good may unintentionally come from it, new innovations, new unintended discoverys just from trying to test their hypothesis, etc.

Still, QP is a mysterious force we are slowly uncovering and every step of the way seems to make the world a bit more curious than the last, along with a ton of new cool tech released shortly after.

Nothing is magical, but anything is possible.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Nothing is magical, much is not currently understood, and the moment you start labelling something magical (even sarcastically) shows you are using science and todays understanding as a religion.

Um.... no it doesn't and I have no idea how you arrive at such a conclusion. I have simply applied due criticism to an allegedly scientific paper. Let's keep it on topic and not about your assumptions and what you think I believe. Straw men and ad hominem are but a temporary distraction from the actual issue in discussion.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
It's not the job of science to "prove all psi abilities are impossible". It's the job of the claimant to establish his claims.

Correct
however, you specifically made a claim of its magical nature, you dismissed it catagorically...not "there is no proof yet of..." but full out dismissal, which is a no-no. You can be heavily bias against such thoughts, but to claim its magical is equal to saying "There is no god", or something of the like...instead if skeptically rejecting the notion until proof comes, you make a religious statement of supernatural knowledge that there is indeed no such thing at all, period.

Which makes you the one claiming something...so, the question then is valid...how did you come across this knowledge, can you prove what you state as fact then? Has your claim been peer reviewed?

See the problem? I am not trying to give you a hard time (really not), just trying to hold you to a higher standard if your going to represent a skeptic verses a religious cynic.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
You call me out on what you believe to be a logical fallacy and then base that assumption on... a logical fallacy?

You're already making excuses for yourself. I didn't base it on any assumption. I based it on the words you posted. Unless you do prove the negative, then you can't just say "psi abilities are just magical thinking" or whatever else. Well, you can say it, but science has nothing to do with it. Unless you have a study. Otherwise it's argument from ignorance. Sorry for disturbing you. Now go look up what "argument from ignorance" means and realize how you are perpetuating it here please, before responding to me again. I don't like arguing with robots that can't admit simple mistakes.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
It's not the job of science to "prove all psi abilities are impossible". It's the job of the claimant to establish his claims.

Correct
however, you specifically made a claim of its magical nature, you dismissed it catagorically...not "there is no proof yet of..." but full out dismissal, which is a no-no.

Exactly, but how many times do people on ATS ever admit they're wrong?


It was pointed out to him. I don't think he will admit it. He'll just be posting a lot of convoluted excuses that we would have to endlessly pick through... Just move along....

argument to ignorance (argumentum ad ignorantiam)

The argument to ignorance is a logical fallacy of irrelevance occurring when one claims that something is true only because it hasn't been proved false, or that something is false only because it has not been proved true.

skepdic.com...


Most "skeptics" today are just the modern form of the religious believer, except their God is yesterday's science.

All this really proves is that we really can be a Jedi if we want

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Nothing is magical, much is not currently understood, and the moment you start labelling something magical (even sarcastically) shows you are using science and todays understanding as a religion.

Um.... no it doesn't and I have no idea how you arrive at such a conclusion. I have simply applied due criticism to an allegedly scientific paper. Let's keep it on topic and not about your assumptions and what you think I believe. Straw men and ad hominem are but a temporary distraction from the actual issue in discussion.

I think I am in nitpick mode with your language you use and your in overall approach..I think if we stopped for a moment and discussed rationally what viewpoints we have, we may align up pretty close...but I see your language as authoritative towards the subject..as if you know through whatever means that indeed PSI abilitys simply don't exist...you have spent a bajillion years, you met a deity, etc...and you know under no uncertain terms that such abilities do not exist...a million years from now, people will read your post and agree 100% that you were right, etc...

again, nitpicking your choice of wording (the fallacy of skeptics "there are no such thing as ghosts" verses "I don't believe in ghosts due to lack of evidence". one statement is perfectly acceptable, one is dogmatic near religious standpoint and ignorance promotion)

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Magic? magnets? propaganda by the soviets? I am unsure and on the fence (gut tells me the last two), but either way, such things should be investigated verses just dismissed due to a inability to understand what nature -may- be.

I agree nature should be investigated.

You say magic, I say scientific anomoly. your way has you dismiss the entire topic based simply on a viewpoint based in data available. my way encourages testing and uncovering for new data.

When "psi abilities" can be replicated in lab conditions then we'll have that new data.

My way is progressive, your way is stagnation. I prefer my stand due to enjoying progression in society and new cool tech that comes from newly discovered technology.

Does your new technology have a power cord that can reach all the way up that high horse?

Sorry you don't like quantum physics btw..but I can be encouraged that people like you do not make up the root of the scientific community anyhow

You assume I "don't like quantum physics"? 0

Incidently, I do understand what you are attempting to say...the mysterious nature at the quantum level and how its currently still unknown and debated is being used to prove the likelyhood of everything from time travel, to deitys, etc...QP has become the pretend science to establish anything you can think of as based in reality...and to that, I do find it to be pesky and annoying..however, like any bad with good, if people are allowed to dream a bit on something that isn't, some good may unintentionally come from it, new innovations, new unintended discoverys just from trying to test their hypothesis, etc.

Maybe the quantum mysteries can answer claims about "psi". Being that they're still mysteries, answering other mysteries with a mystery is hardly scientific now, is it?

Still, QP is a mysterious force we are slowly uncovering and every step of the way seems to make the world a bit more curious than the last, along with a ton of new cool tech released shortly after.

I am fine with that. If more people did that instead of attempting to legitimize claims about mind readers and remote healers we might even have that technology a lot sooner.

Perhaps at some point we can make this thread about the topic at hand rather than your incorrect assumptions, straw men and ad hominem you're throwing at me.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
as if you know through whatever means that indeed PSI abilitys simply don't exist...

I can't say nor prove that psi abilities don't exist nor am I trying to. I am applying criticism to a paper that is being perceived as "scientific" and sometimes "proof" of claims that remain unverified.

again, nitpicking your choice of wording (the fallacy of skeptics "there are no such thing as ghosts" verses "I don't believe in ghosts due to lack of evidence". one statement is perfectly acceptable, one is dogmatic near religious standpoint and ignorance promotion)

Feel free to point out anywhere that I've made a positive claim that psi abilities do not exist. Otherwise, let's chalk this up to another misperception.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Feel free to point out anywhere that I've made a positive claim that psi abilities do not exist. Otherwise, let's chalk this up to another misperception.

Here:

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
This article, however, attempts to validate our current understanding of "psi abilities" - which IS magical thinking - using quantum physics as the support. Nice try though.

Backpeddle much?


Or were you trying to tell us something you know about magic?


Come on man, you're talking to English-speaking adults here. It's not like we haven't heard this language or seen the mentality it represents before.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Feel free to point out anywhere that I've made a positive claim that psi abilities do not exist. Otherwise, let's chalk this up to another misperception.

This article, however, attempts to validate our current understanding of "psi abilities" - which IS magical thinking - using quantum physics as the support.

Language mon, its da language.

I am going to back off of this though as its nitpicky and ultimately I agree with your overall point.

The fault is the title...its not proof, its a hypothesis that though interesting, proves nothing. The chap doing the work, I wish him the best of luck and would be fantastic to get some concrete evidence/proof of this overall...dismiss the magic of it and find a solid and verifiable, useful understanding that leads to breakthrough.

We are on the same page overall..just keep in mind, words are music, and when something goes off tune, it becomes a annoyance. there was no strawman argument if you read all of this in context, but it was off topic.

reply to post by bsbray11


grumble
you got it first...blargh.

Originally posted by bsbray11
Backpeddle much?

Belief in remote healing and mind reading is magical thinking. That is not a claim that it doesn't exist.

Come on man, you're talking to English-speaking adults here. It's not like we haven't heard this language or seen the mentality it represents before.

It would help if they actually read and understood English as well.

Is it possible you simply have frustration with skepticism and those who provide it because you possibly have some beliefs in "psi abilities"? I ask because this thread has suddenly become about the skeptic rather than the topic.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Belief in remote healing and mind reading is magical thinking. That is not a claim that it doesn't exist.

Then how do you define "magical thinking"? Because I doubt you're either an occultist or a stage magician, so your view of the phrase is bound to be peculiar.

Is it possible you simply have frustration with skepticism and those who provide it because you possibly have some beliefs in "psi abilities"?

My only frustration is with know-it-alls who employ logical fallacies to demonstrate their massive egos.