What happens if you cross the border at Area 51

reply to post by FosterVS


Wow, they obviously riddled the entire surrounding with sensors, I wonder how much money they put into this effort!!

reply to post by FosterVS


It is a crappy detection system. They just "wire" the roads. A person on foot, oh say like somebody crossing the US-Mexico border, can escape detection. The trouble with the desert is if you visit the same area often enough, even on foot, you disturb the terrain enough that your visit can be detected. Thus they don't put a ring of detectors around the range, but rather just at the choke points. [They need to replace the batteries monthly, so a wear pattern can be detected.] I have the schematics for the boxes. They can easily be detected with a nonlinear junction detector. Further, there is no encryption, so the alarms can be spoofed. Seriously, this is junk engineering. If you can spoof an alarm, then you mask the real border crossing with a bunch of false alarms.

Unknown to Chuck, the transmitters have mercury switches to detect theft. They were on 151.5Mhz, but that frequency got burned when KLAS did a video on the sensors.

Regarding SAMS at Groom Lake, who knows.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by FosterVS

 

It is a crappy detection system. They just "wire" the roads. A person on foot, oh say like somebody crossing the US-Mexico border, can escape detection. The trouble with the desert is if you visit the same area often enough, even on foot, you disturb the terrain enough that your visit can be detected. Thus they don't put a ring of detectors around the range, but rather just at the choke points. [They need to replace the batteries monthly, so a wear pattern can be detected.] I have the schematics for the boxes. They can easily be detected with a nonlinear junction detector. Further, there is no encryption, so the alarms can be spoofed. Seriously, this is junk engineering. If you can spoof an alarm, then you mask the real border crossing with a bunch of false alarms.

Unknown to Chuck, the transmitters have mercury switches to detect theft. They were on 151.5Mhz, but that frequency got burned when KLAS did a video on the sensors.

Regarding SAMS at Groom Lake, who knows.

Would a spectrum analyzer and suitable antenna locate them? I imagine they only transmit when triggered, or low battery. For purely academic info, mind you...

As shown on dreamlandresort most of the devices are battery operated... Don't you think it's a huge effort to exchange the batteries every 2 months? And did no one ever actually see the Cammo dudes putting down these sensors in the ground?

In 1982 they used old Vietnam jungle sensors that were modified to run off car batteries they hid in ammo cans.

At that time they had 4 sensors between the highway and the gate.

I worked at a mine near Austin NV and would take trips over that way.

The navy at China lake and border patrol used the same sensors during that time period and they were well known.

And metal sensor ones would pick up a VC with a AK at about 20 feet.

The vibration sensor ones would pick up a motorcycle from a hundred feet if it was moving fast.

If someone was pushing it slowly they might miss it but you never knew what type they planted.

After the reporters told everyone about there system the next time they did road repairs the government buried a hard wire sensor system down the road with branches to cover other side roads.

They know where you are from the time you pull of the highway.

reply to post by ANNED


Sensors under the pavement tend to be inductive loops. Metal from above detunes the loop.

reply to post by Dalbeck


They don't have that many sites to service. I'm not sure every border crossing has a sensor. Many roads at the border don't go far into the range.

Battery life is a function of how often the transmitter is used. Some of these roads, like the Range 61 gate, rarely get visited.

reply to post by FosterVS


For a systems that "chirps" periodically, you would need a FFT based spectrum analyzer. It has to be constantly sampling, then you look at the spectrum. Most spectrum analyzers use a swept bandpass filter with energy detector.

The sensors are on time delay to make a frequency counter scheme less effective.

I will review all the mids/emids documents I have tonight and start a new thread. I know I can produce a table of frequencies that the sensor transmitters can use. The Qual-Tron documents have proprietary stamps so I can't upload them, but I can certainly summarize them.

There is a lot of radio chirping around the range. I assume most of the chirps are telemetry. The signals can simply be stating the levels of tanks, battery levels, etc. 138.025MHz (pulled from gray matter memory, not a hard drive) chirps often.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by FosterVS

 

For a systems that "chirps" periodically, you would need a FFT based spectrum analyzer. It has to be constantly sampling, then you look at the spectrum. Most spectrum analyzers use a swept bandpass filter with energy detector.

The sensors are on time delay to make a frequency counter scheme less effective.

I will review all the mids/emids documents I have tonight and start a new thread. I know I can produce a table of frequencies that the sensor transmitters can use. The Qual-Tron documents have proprietary stamps so I can't upload them, but I can certainly summarize them.

There is a lot of radio chirping around the range. I assume most of the chirps are telemetry. The signals can simply be stating the levels of tanks, battery levels, etc. 138.025MHz (pulled from gray matter memory, not a hard drive) chirps often.

I figured with a directional antenna, and a spectrum analyzer, you could track down some of this stuff. I guess two guys doing the same thing would be a better plan, triangulating and all. When in the area, my base scanner seems to pick up some weird stuff, but I've never tried to track it down.

"I will review all the mids/emids documents I have tonight and start a new thread" - other than a few of us, I don't think many readers here would be interested, or even know what you are talking about.

reply to post by FosterVS


To DF with a directional antenna, you need a continuous signal. This works for locating the control channels of the trunk system on the range. [Much of what is on radiorefernce.com regarding transmitter locations isn't correct because I haven't posted the data for somebody to steal and send to radioreference. ;-)] The high rate of modulation on the CC makes the so-called Doppler scheme not work so well, but a directional antenna and a stepped attenuator does the job.

For a burst, you would need something like a TDOA (Time Delay of Arrival) set up. It's on my list of todo projects.

If ATS readers prefer Dulce over data about the border sensors, so be it. I'll post it anyway. It will give the other sites something to steal.

BTW, before I forget, make sure to check out Base Camp on your next trip. The last time I drove past it, they were erecting a tower. It had the aero type paint job. Nothing on top, but I suspect it will have a small radome if the tower is what I think it is.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by FosterVS

 

If ATS readers prefer Dulce over data about the border sensors, so be it. I'll post it anyway. It will give the other sites something to steal.

It does seem at times they prefer imaginary conspiracies i.e. Dulce, Skinblocker Ranch or whatever it's called. I guess reality isn't exciting enough.

BTW, before I forget, make sure to check out Base Camp on your next trip. The last time I drove past it, they were erecting a tower. It had the aero type paint job. Nothing on top, but I suspect it will have a small radome if the tower is what I think it is.

Base Camp is always a must-visit when I'm there. I always seem to catch something interesting on the runway. BTW - any idea what the story is on the road that passes through Base Camp? I think it leads into Tybo ghost town. Somewhere I had read that even though the military had annexed the land at Base Camp, the road was still public.

reply to post by FosterVS


The Atomic Energy Commission owned the Base Camp land for Project Faultless. The USAF took it over and later expanded the boundary. The fence lines are on the old boundary.

Base Camp is clearly used by the CIA. The aircraft spotted there is evidence enough.

Tybo mine is private property. I believe it is a patented mineral claim. I'm not sure if the road is private property. I visited the town years ago before the no trespassing sign went up. The sign has collapsed. No idea if someone helped it fall down. The sign is quite ratty. If you pick it up, you will see a federal style no trespassing sign on it. I suspect some government organization used it at one time, probably when Base Camp had cameras pointing at the road leading to Tybo.

Big empty desert. Where do you think stuff like the B2 Bomber is being tested? You get warned and if you persist, arrested. But I think with all the attention area51 got over the past decades, they probably moved most of their projects and conduct at that particular base only work that can be done indoors.

reply to post by Cassius666


The B2 is flown around the Nellis range often. They have a refueling track along the east side of the range. It goes right over Rachel since the project isn't much of a secret. The north side of the track is around the Cedar Pipeline Ranch. It is refueled by a white KC-10. The only time I witnessed this, it was without my contacts at stupid O clock in the morning, so I didn't get the tail or unit of the tanker. Most of the time the tankers on the range are from Travis AFB.

While it is fun to fantasize of Area 51 being moved elsewhere, the facts are the base is constantly expanding. It is really hard to find airspace this secure. For much of the year, Tikaboo is a hostile place. You don't see much of anything from the border of the range unless they want you to see it or don't care. The Nellis range SUA is bigger than some states. Toss in the MOAs and you have an environment that is hard to duplicate elsewhere. Do you think the UK would both to test the Typhoon at Groom if there was a place in the UK as suitable?

reply to post by gariac


Well guess they dont have any way to move such a huge operation. I guess located the way it is surrounded by hilltops its still a safe bet and they are just going to suck it up that it has become a tourist attraction.

Originally posted by FosterVS
I just finished editing a new video, footage I recorded in October of 2010. Cammo dudes don't like dirt bikes it seems.
www.youtube.com...

Had to re-edit my video, it was marked with a copyright issue, since I used some background mood music:
www.youtube.com...

It is a tourist attraction, for folks like me. Last time I was there, I heard at the Inn that cars/plates are photographed when you drive through Crystal Springs. Think this is so?

reply to post by Ancestor


Never listen to what they say at the Inn.

If anything, the Inn is a place to get spied on. It is full of cameras that one of the base contractors put in. Now there is no evidence that the video from all the cameras at the Inn leaves their premises. The cameras were supposedly installed to curb drug deals done on premises. One of the workers at the Inn was busted for meth. It was in the Lincoln County Record.

Well, my trip to the range has been cancelled. Camera gear purchased, offroad vehicles prepped, passports in order... scheduled to leave May 17th.

And on May 1st, while riding my dirtbike, I managed to have a small pileup. Really minor, tipped it at like 5mph, and fell/flew off a short distance. On a sand trail. And what really should have been at worst a small bruise turned out to be a BROKEN HIP. And the way it is broken, I may have to stay off it for up to 5 months.

Guess I'm gonna have to be a "keyboard warrior" for a while.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by Ancestor

 

Never listen to what they say at the Inn.

If anything, the Inn is a place to get spied on. It is full of cameras that one of the base contractors put in. Now there is no evidence that the video from all the cameras at the Inn leaves their premises. The cameras were supposedly installed to curb drug deals done on premises. One of the workers at the Inn was busted for meth. It was in the Lincoln County Record.

Interesting, thanks gariac. You say there is no evience the video leaves their premesis?