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Originally posted by Getsmart
Originally posted by prodomino
Going to have to stop you right there, we have plenty of great femals that are scientists.
And back in the 19th Century there was Marie Curie among others. Sure there are many and some are among the best. But this picture was taken in 1946 and she was probably bunking with Herr Fuhrer and to avoid suspicions with the two of them seen together, as in so many magazine covers and newspaper photos of that era, I imagine that's why she was outfitted in a tailored suit. Unless... she happened to like cross-dressing.
GS
Originally posted by prodomino
You are probly 100% correct, the cross dressing theory makes no sence what so ever. btw great research you have done, makes for a very interesting read.
Originally posted by shatter
he's prally bangin' out rhymes with tupac as we speak.
Originally posted by Skippy1138
I don't know about Hitler, but many Nazi war criminals escaped to places like Bolivia,Argentina,Brazil,etc and got new identities.....
If you are interested in the topic check out these two films:
"The Boys From Brazil"
"Marathon Man"
Originally posted by Skippy1138
Hmm, thanks man i'll have to check those out.
Originally posted by kro32
Sorry but they've already verified, through dental records, the skull of Hitler. This is a dead horse.
Originally posted by kro32
Sorry but they've already verified, through dental records, the skull of Hitler. This is a dead horse.
Originally posted by alfa1
Originally posted by prodomino
evidence
No evidence. Like the other one with Roswell, its just the local agent hearing a completely unverifiable story from a guy, and dutifully reporting the story back to head office.
In this case its even worse. The anonymous guy reporting it to the agent isnt even the guy who supposedly helped Hitler. He himself just heard the story from another guy with an untrackable or false name.
Originally posted by Lazyninja]
In court hearsay is used all the time as evidence. There is no proof, but there is evidence. I wish people would figure out the difference between the two words.
On the outskirts of Ascension, Paraguay.
"I was working as a junior rep for an oil company at the time and I was on leave for two weeks, just bumming around Uruguay and Paraguay, and one of the guys I knew at Procter & Gamble said I should come up and meet him at this dinner party they were having and prepare to have my mind blown."
"Hitler was one of the nicest guys I ever met. He was very frail at the time but his English and his manners were perfect. He kept asking me about my favorite hobby (photography) and he said he would give me an old Leica he had, which he would send on to me at my main address in Montevideo. Never arrived though."
"I have no idea when he died. 1970 in Argentina, rumor has it."
..."Quite honestly, I was too overawed to ask him very much at all. I mean, I was saying really dumb things like how bad the mosquitos could be and saying how well he looked (although he had a tremble and obviously wasn't in the least a healthy man.)"
..."He kept his hand on my shoulder when he was talking and he would squeeze it every time he smiled, like he was making a point. He was not at all bitter and there was not the slightest hint that he was a fugitive. He was very relaxed and everyone was real kind and gentle to him."
"He could have been a look-a-like and I have no way of proving that this was the real Hitler."
"However, why would anyone go to so much trouble to scam a party of oil execs and local Paraguayan dinitaries and government types (the "Corellos")?"
"My friend and I dined on the experience for years and we both laughed it over whenever one of us said, "You know, we should tell someone." I did in fact tell my wife, whom I married in 1973, and she just fell about laughing, so I never went that route again."
"I've read a lot of stuff about the "Hitler in South America" angle, and I do know that he had look-a-likes in case the Mossad came looking for him. One of the guys I used to know down there, who later worked for the Shell oil company, told me that the Israelis knew and were quite happy to let Hitler live out his last years in peace. Some kind of deal was struck in Washington, so they say. No idea why."
..."To be honest, when you're that age and you sudenly find yourself at an upmarket dinner party attended by all sorts of important industry people, you don't ask many questions. You just kind of ride the surreal wave, and that's what I did."
"Hitler knew that I was dumbstruck and he did his best to reassure me and make me feel comfortable. He kept squeezing my shoulder as a father would to encourage a young boy to feel at ease and enjoy the conversation."
"Considering everything that he did, it sounds terrible to say that at that particular moment I really loved that person. Certainly he made me feel loved and wanted and I came away from the experience really caring for him and concerned about his welfare."
"I learned that many other people in my line of work had met Hitler in the late 1950s and throughout the 1960s, almost as if it were some kind of initiation rite for select young execs. None of them ever felt hostile toward him, so it seems he made a good impression on all who met him, despite his health."
..."Yeah, I know it sounds incredible, amd maybe he was just a look-a-like, but the experience was very real and the most fascinating thing that ever happened to me."
"My tale is there because I wanted to tell it, because I've always wanted to tell it to more folks than just members of my immediate family ....and, maybe it was for real, maybe not, but for me it was 100 percent genuine and very, very moving."
..."Until the day I die, I'll always ask myself if it was for real or if the guy was a look-a-like, and I guess I'll never know the answer to that question."
"The only thing I had to go on is intuition -- and, boy, were all my senses fully awake! I knew, immediately and without the slightest doubt that the gentleman who spoke to me and who squeezed my shoulder was Hitler. I can't prove it, and I never will. But I just knew it."
.."I've been toying with my small confession for years, ever since I went online back in 1997, but it just didn't feel right. Well, this old guy won't be around for much longer, and I guess there's a time and a place for everything."
"Thought you might like to know .... Just an oldie on his way out with cancer making a small internet confession before the curtain drops. :-)"
LINK: I met Hitler in 1967
"Alfredo Stroessner was the president from Paraguay, and accompanied Ernesto Geisel as a member of Operation Condor. Stroessner too had strong anti-communist views, which he used to seek out and quash dissent. Stroessner took an all-out approach to battling communism, “The ‘Paraguayan model’ of totalitarianism that assured the ‘social peace to any cost’”. This meant that the Paraguayan president would allow secret police, and even the military to help silence opposition. Stroessner particularly focused his silencing efforts on left wing radicals and advocates, and received praise from the United States for his actions. His iron will often resulted in torture in the ruthless pursuit of information. The one thing America did not care to mention is that it overlooked the torture Storessner used to gain information from his enemies."
WolfWiki's Policing and Torture
"It was actually very informal, and for much of the time, guests were on their feet, walking around the house and wandering around in the gardens. Hitler remained seated at all times in the main dining room, but not like some sort of king demanding hushed attention -- on the contrary, there were several conversations going on at the same time, with folks coming in and out and generally enjoying the ambience."
"By the time I got there, the food was served up in the form of a buffet, with lots of delicious meat and fish delicacies. I never saw Hitler eat anything, and I think he was just drinking water."
"The guy who took me there wasn't that much older than myself, although he had been there for much longer than I. He's still alive and living in Costa Rica, and I phone him each Christmas. We became good friends in South America and he showed me how to fit in with the local customs and get around the bureaucracy."
His background was product sales, which was not that different to mine. I was basically there to work on sponsorhip deals and social tie-ins, like helping to finance some local schools and talent scouting.
I don't know who was individually responsible for organizing the party, but I went to many like it in the years I was there. They were usually organized by one of the Senor Corellos -- the big landowners who dominate the ranching business down there. My company also instituted a lot of social occasions like that.
"As I said, the center person was Hitler, but it was clear to me that most of the people there knew him well enough not to fuss over him. He was treated more like an honored guest who you could approach and talk to in a very relaxed, informal atmosphere, but he wasn't the focal point of the event."
"The name of the man who introduced me to Hitler was Senior (Senor) Tejerina, and although I had never met the Senor before, he knew everything about me -- my birthplace, education and college background, company profile, etc! He spoke to Hitler in German and Spanish and Hitler replied in Spanish."
Then Hitler beckoned to me and I sat down next to him and he began talking to me in English. There were two other people listening to us (both diametrically across the table -- a very attractive Anglo woman and a Corello, quite wealthy looking -- and they were both smiling, and watching my reaction.)
"I was so absolutely awed by the whole thing, I began to say such stupid things, such as "How are you, Sir?" and "You look so healthy" ... and even (you'll love this) ... "I've heard so much about you!" :-)
At one point I was calling him "Mr President"! :-) I really didn't know what to call him. I noticed that he was laughing gently, and I think he said "Presidente" to correct me with a little joke, so I just went back to using "Sir."
"He spoke to me about my career choice and said it was a very wise decision. He asked me if I could speak Spanish (I could, but not very well) and he recommended that I should spend more time in the country and less in the cities. He asked me if I could ride a horse, and if I was much of a sportsman, and then he suggested I should speak to Senor [forgot the name] who coached people to play polo."
"I said I wasn't really that athletic but enjoyed photography, and he said that my choice of hobby was a very fine one and he wished he could join me but was too old to learn new things, although he did say he considered himself to have been a competent amateur photographer in his spare time in Germany. He told me he had an old Leica which he never used and he would send it to me."
"I told him I had a Pentax, which was very good, but I would really treasure his Leica, although I insisted it was too kind without payment. He dismissed my suggestion immediately and told me that it was a camera waiting for a young, talented owner and it was wasted on an old man who had no use for it."
"Then I blabbed about mosquitos and told him I hoped he had a place with adequate mosquoito protection, and he laughed gently and said mosquitos didn't bother him, and the two people opposite also laughed, but kindly so. I began to relax more and I told him again that he looked very healthy and asked him if there was anything I could do for him."
"Some more poeople came into the room and stood there smiling at us. The attractive lady said something in German and then there proceeded a conversation between her and Hitler, with the young man then commenting in Spanish. All three began laughing about something, but they weren't laughing at me .... I just think it was a "family" joke, although I don't think they wre related in any way, but just very close.
He turned to me and asked if I had eaten, and I said I hadn't. He said that I looked far too thin and needed to eat. A waiter came and served us drinks, but Hitler drank only water. He asked me about my education and I told him a little bit about my background. I noticed there were now more people in the room, but most of them were discussing things between themselves .... very relaxed ambience .... and Hitler asked me if I was planning to marry and raise a large family."
"I told him that I had not yet met the girl of my dreams and he laughed and said it was sure to happen soon and that I would have a large family. The lady agreed and said, in English, that I was "handsome" and would have a lout of Senoritas running around after me. I said "No, that hasn't happened yet," and she said I was perhaps too shy. Hitler was laughing gently and was squeezing my shoulder and he said it was important to find a young lady to share my dreams with. Perhaps, he said, I should marry a lady interested in photography or a lady whose father owned the Pentax company. Then we all just laughed and when the waiter came, Hitler spoke to him and asked him to show me where to get some food."
"I said much more, and we spoke again later before I left, but that's it in a nutshell!"
..."I asked my friend later if the attractive young woman was his daughter and he said that was not the case, but Hitler "adopted" people as part of his family. He said he had always remained faithful to Eva, who died in 1959, and never married again."
"The sense that I picked up on was that Hitler was a very gentle person, not at all the "madman" you read about. I could not imagine this person ever harming a fly, let alone another human being."
"Of course, I'm not defending him. If what he did is true, then we cannot forgive. But I just can't reconcile the historical view with the man I met that evening so many years ago. I came away with the feeling that he he cared for me and I felt absolute love for this frail old man with such a lovely, gentle laugh."
"Funny, but I've oftened dreamed of Hitler, having a conversation with him -- a conversation I really would have loved to have had if I hadn't been so nervous and awed. I wish I had spent more time with him to find out more about his life and his opinions."
"One thing is for sure -- we live in an amazing world full of mystery, where everywhere ain't what it seems!"
"I'd heard all the rumors about Hitler in South America before I even met him, but I didn't believe them. Still, I guessed they prepped me for what I immediately accepted to be the truth of the situation. Suddenly, the rumors made sense."
"I believe the man who committed suicide in Berlin was Hitler's double. They made a flm of "Hitler" inspecting the last very young German army recruits before the fall of Berlin, and I think that was proved to be Hitler's double."
"However, it's absolutely certain that Hitler was safe and the authorities knew where he was. It seems a deal was done somewhere down the line to let the old man live out his life in peace. Why? Don't ask me. Your guess is as good as mine."
"We human beings are very complex. You have this guy who was a mass murderer, and then when you meet him, you feel greatly honored and actually care for him. I really did, and it's left a lifelong impression on me."
"Obviously, if I had been Jewish I would have felt very differently and perhaps my instinct would have been to kill him. But all I felt was a sort of very deep affection. This frail old man Hitler I had only read about and seen on film was sitting right next to me absorbed in the details of my life and giving me fatherly advice."
"It was like he knew me personally and was keen to see me succeed and lead a good life. It was the most overwhelming experience I have ever had and I just wanted to help the guy too. I can't explain it ... it's just how it was."
..."My friend, there is an old saying: There's nothing new under the sun. I know for a fact that I wasn't the only person in my company to meet Hitler .... there was a sort of "yeah, been there, met him, got the T-shirt" mentality among some of the guys down there."
"Don't forget, Paraguay (and much of South American society) was a very closed loop at the top echelons of society. The place was run by very powerful generals and dictators and everything was very tightly controlled. It's a little bit different today, but you still have all the big landowners forming a closed circle with the military and elite within the civilian governments."
"Now, it was a long time before I told someone properly about this -- that was my wife a few years later. My friend knew, of course, and others, but nobody was too much inclined to sort of yell it out. It just felt good to keep it quiet, like a strange valuable treasure you don't want to show the world. It was a privileged feeling -- privileged information. It's like winning a $1,000,000 prize draw and you want to keep it quiet because that makes life easier while you enjoy the "treasure," the "hidden knowledge."
"When I got back to the States, I was watching some old WW2 movies, with shots of Hitler making speeches, and it was just amazing to think: "Hey, I know the guy. And he knows me too, and he's really concerned that I find myself the girl of my dreams and have a big family!"
":-) Yeah, it sounds funny. I know. Sorry."
"I did meet Hitler. It was him. I've studied thousands of photographs and listened to thousands of sound recordings and stared at thousands of old film clips -- and that's him. That was the guy! It was not an actor. And why the hell would it have been? There was no value or advantage in fooling someone like me. I just wasn't that important!"
..."First of all, I was immediately in awe of this man -- I fell under his "spell," so to say. Although he was very frail looking, he was pure charisma. A fascinating personality, even though he just sat there and made no real physical gestures."
"Others in the room were absolutely entranced by him. When people came in to say hello or just drop by, you could tell they thought he was more than just a good ol' boy of history, and the lady sitting just off to his left and her companion were in adoration of him. It was like they just couldn't be anywhere else. She was very protective of him ... oh, I could tell straight away -- I thought she was his daughter perhaps, who idolized him."
"It was just taken as said by all I met that night that the man was the "great" (apologies for some) Adolph Hitler, and it wasn't a really big deal for them -- these people knew him, had known him for a long time, he was a regular feature of elite Paraguayan/Uruguayan society. I got knowing nods and smiles from other guests, as if to say, "Hey, you're one of us now." But nobody came up to me and **raved** about it. These were high-class people."
"Needless to say, I didn't eat or drink much that evening. I nibbled on some meat, but that was it. Conversations were sort of shallow compared to what had gone before. I joined my friend in the gardens later and I just stood there saying nothing for a very long time and he smiled and let me think through what had happened to me. He saw that what I was going through was what he went through too a few months before. It was a uniquely wonderful feeling."
LINK: I met Hitler in 1967
Originally posted by Getsmart
On the outskirts of Ascension, Paraguay.
Originally posted by Getsmart
On the outskirts of Ascension, Paraguay.
Originally posted by AdAstra
Getsmart, this person didn't get even the name of Paraguay's capital right, and I guarantee you it's not a simple typo. Does that not strike you as odd?
Unless of course there is a place called Ascension there and they're referring to that place, in which case I apologize.
BTW, there was a thread about this, with an alleged photo of Hitler in his old age, posted here about three years ago. Maybe you'd be interested in it.
"There is an enormous German population in Paraguay today, with whole German areas, such as Filadelfia, Loma Plata and Neuland in the central Chaco, Nueva Germania in San Pedro, the Colonias Unidas in ItaItapua, and Independencia in Guaira. Not only that, but very many of the best hotels have some elements of German management. Good hotel almost equals German hotel."
"...the first Nazi party outside of Germany was formed in Paraguay around 1930. ...when dictator Stroessner (himself of German ancestry) came to power in 1954, he felt a bond with the authoritarian methods of the Nazis, and received around a dozen Nazi leaders into the country. There is even a theory (of Paraguayan writer Mariano Llano) that Hitler did not die in his Berlin bunker but fled to Argentina in a submarine, and about ten years later passed into Paraguay incognito, but with the knowledge and consent of Stroessner, where in due course he died in anonymity."
"Whatever the truth of that, there was an organisation called Odessa which helped Nazis escape to South America, and among those who did so were: Josef Mengele, the doctor who performed medical experiments on Jews in Auschwitz and subsequently obtained naturalisation in Paraguay; Edward Roschmann, commandant of the Riga concentration camp; and a number of other war criminals including Erwin Fleiss, Marko Colak and Ante Pavelic. All these Nazis spent part of their exile in Argentina and part in Paraguay."
Nazis and Paraguay By Margaret Hebblethwaite
"But Adolf Eichmann had escaped both the Nuremberg trials and the Avengers. All trace of him had been lost in May 1945. He had actually remained in Europe until 1950, maintaining no contact with his family. In 1950, with the help of an organization assisting former Nazis to leave Europe, he escaped to Argentina. He sent for his wife and children two years later."
"The passport issed to Adolf Eichmann by the International Committee of the Red Cross on June 1, 1950 was discovered by a graduate student in at the University of San Martin mid-2007 conducting research on Eichmann's wife, Veronica Catalina Leibel. The name on the passport reads "Ricardo Klement," and claims that he was a "technician born in Bolzano, Italy, and apolide (without nationality)."
"When Eichmann arrived in Argentina in 1950, he lived for almost three years in a quiet town near Buenos Aires called San Fernando, where he worked in a metal factory. He then moved to the province of Tucuman, located over 600 miles from Buenos Aires, where he worked at an engineering company called the Capri firm, to which Juan Peron, the Argentine president at the time and known Nazi-sympathizer, gave many state contracts in order to modernize the province's water administration."
"Eichmann's wife and two children arrived in Argentina in mid-1952, and accompanied him to Tucuman. He registered his two children at a German school, known to promote anti-Semitic and pro-Nazi propoganda at the time, under the name Eichmann, suggesting again how the Argentine government aided and abetted former Nazis and their sympathizers."
"In April 1953, the Capri firm declared bankruptcy and Eichmann moved his family to Buenos Aires, where he worked for a number a companies. He was hired by Mercedes Benz in March 1959, where he continued to use the alias Ricardo Klement."
"No one had heard him for years. But in the autumn of 1957 Walter Eytan at the Israeli Foreign Ministry, got a call from Fritz Bauer, the public prosecutor of the province of Hesse, Germany. Hesse told Eytan that Eichmann was alive and living in Argentina."
The Capture of Adolf Eichmann by Doron Geller
"In 1947, Barbie became an agent for the 66th Detachment of the U.S. Army Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC). In 1951, he fled to Juan Peron's Argentina with the help of a ratline organized by U.S. intelligence services and the Ustashi Roman Catholic priest Krunoslav Draganović."
Wikipedia: Klaus Barbie