"BS! God's got horns!" (or: The Emperor Wears No Clothes!)

Wikipedia -

The Controlled Substances Act (CSA) was enacted into law by the Congress of the United States as Title II of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970. The CSA is the federal U.S. drug policy under which the manufacture, importation, possession, use and distribution of certain substances is regulated.

Placement on schedules; findings required Except ... The findings required for each of the schedules are as follows: (1) Schedule I.— (A) The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse. (B) The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States. (C) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision." No prescriptions may be written for Schedule I substances, and such substances are subject to production quotas by the DEA. Under the DEA's interpretation of the CSA, a drug does not necessarily have to have the same abuse potential as heroin or coc aine to merit placement in Schedule I (in fact, coc aine is currently a Schedule II drug due to limited medical use): When it comes to a drug that is currently listed in schedule I, if it is undisputed that such drug has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States and a lack of accepted safety for use under medical supervision, and it is further undisputed that the drug has at least some potential for abuse sufficient to warrant control under the CSA, the drug must remain in schedule I. In such circumstances, placement of the drug in schedules II through V would conflict with the CSA since such drug would not meet the criterion of "a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States." 21 USC 812(b).

Now, let's take a look at this:

U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration officials are making plans to reschedule natural THC as a Schedule III controlled substance

Reporter Mike Riggs at The Daily Caller has an important story online today revealing how U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration officials are making plans to reschedule natural THC under federal law. Under the plan, THC derived from the marijuana plant would be classified as a Schedule III controlled substance, while the plant itself would remain classified as a Schedule I illegal drug. Sound fishy? It is. As a DEA spokesperson quoted in the story explains, “THC, natural or synthetic, remains a schedule I controlled substance. Under the proposed rule, in those instances in the future where FDA might approve a generic version of Marinol, that version of the drug will be in the same schedule as the brand name version of the drug, regardless of whether the THC used in the generic version was synthesized by man or derived from the cannabis plant.” So, in other words, if a pharmaceutical product contains THC extracted from the marijuana plant, that would be a legal commodity. But if you or I possessed THC extracted from the marijuana plant, that remains an illegal commodity. Wait, it gets even more absurd. Since the cannabis plant itself will remain illegal under federal law, then from whom precisely could Big Pharma legally obtain their soon-to-be legal THC extracts? There’s only one answer: The federal government’s lone legally licensed marijuana cultivator, The University of Mississippi at Oxford, which already has the licensing agreements with the pharmaceutical industry in hand. Riggs writes: In other words, THC in plant form or as an extract, will still be illegal. What won’t be illegal is if a pharmaceutical company buys THC from a government-licensed provider, puts it in a pill, receives the DEA’s stamp of approval, and sells it a price that will likely be far higher than the price of marijuana. Armentano said such circular reasoning is a product of decades of hostility towards marijuana research. “This is the insane rationale necessary for banning medical marijuana,” he said. “Take away the prohibition and the political elements, and you would never have the stretching of logic necessary to pass organic THC but only if it mimics Marinol.” Expect the DEA’s ’stretching of logic’ to become even more absurd in the future.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this makes it look like the DEA wants to have its cake, and eat it too - cannabis, for all practical intents and purposes, remains illegal for the common man under federal law...but if the federal government wants to allow big pharma to use cannabis to make generic versions of marinol/dronabinol...EVEN IF THAT GENERIC DRUG CONTAINS ACTUAL THC or other components of the cannabis plant, that's legal.

I'm having a hard time working around the reasoning here, especially when we've got the government providing medical cannabis to individuals - to the tune of +115,000 joints!: Irvin Rosenfeld Has Recieved Over 115,000 Joints from the Federal Government

Cognitive dissonance much? Is anyone else's head spinning? The government says marijuana serves no purpose - goes after doctors prescribing it, dispensaries providing it, and in some cases even cancer patients using it - but they are providing it to people directly (Compassionate Investigational New Drug program)!

I know I'm likely preaching to the choir here, but I'm sick and tired. I'm sick of the oligarchy keeping the good to themselves and pissing on everyone else. I'm tired of the hypocrisy, deceit, and double-dealing.

What's good for the goose should be good for the gander. The DEA's attempted (semi-)rescheduling of cannabis is to me self-sufficient to prove that the government and its lackeys are firmly in the pocket of big pharma, in addition to the fact that cannabis is a safe and beneficial substance that the people should have free & unrestricted access to.

Let's open the floor for debate!

PS: Please please please read, and advise your friends and family too as well, The Emperor Wears No Clothes by the late Jack Herer. Good info here.



Mod edit: Removed profanity from title.

reply to post by Praetorius


First I have zero issue with Adults using any drug. I don't care if they overdose. Children and Students however is another story and if it's being used during work it is not wise.

If you want honesty however, you need to be totally honest with yourself. To say it is harmless is a lie. You cant criticize one side for lying if your dishonest. I've been watching our government lie all day in the same manner.

Smoking Pot is highly destructive for young people or even older kids in College. It negatively impacts your grades, your future and your life in more than one way. If you are being honest you simply can not say it's harmless. All recreational drugs have some negative impact. That is the truth.

Are you attempting to convince yourself that it does not affect memory or learning, not to mention job performance? That is simply not true. It forms a sheath around the cells that store short term memory and impeeds it. That is simply a fact. Sitting in the yard and smoking one may be fine, but doing so while trying to learn or work is bad. You know as well as I do and probably have seen for yourself, that some kid's ruin there lives when they go down that path and destroy the education they need to have a good life.

Lets be honest here and admit both sides are lying. Lets not be just like the politicians I'm watching today.

reply to post by Blaine91555


Hi Blaine, thanks for replying before my thread effectively got memory-holed

First I have zero issue with Adults using any drug. I don't care if they overdose. Children and Students however is another story and if it's being used during work it is not wise.

Glad we can agree on some things, although I have strong doubts about overdosing on cannabis. And I also definitely agree that children should not have access to any mind-altering substances, and that students can cause problems for themselves they've be best off not dealing with by using certain substances!

If you want honesty however, you need to be totally honest with yourself. To say it is harmless is a lie. You cant criticize one side for lying if your dishonest. I've been watching our government lie all day in the same manner.

Smoking Pot is highly destructive for young people or even older kids in College. It negatively impacts your grades, your future and your life in more than one way. If you are being honest you simply can not say it's harmless. All recreational drugs have some negative impact. That is the truth.

True enough - I'll be the first to admit that cannabis isn't a harmless substance, but it is many times less harmful that other substances that are legal for certain age groups. I know certain people who have high levels of unpleasant mental activity that results in further strain and discomfort when using certain substances. Point granted to you, cannabis is not recommended for all people or all situations, by any means.

Are you attempting to convince yourself that it does not affect memory or learning, not to mention job performance? That is simply not true. It forms a sheath around the cells that store short term memory and impeeds it. That is simply a fact. Sitting in the yard and smoking one may be fine, but doing so while trying to learn or work is bad. You know as well as I do and probably have seen for yourself, that some kid's ruin there lives when they go down that path and destroy the education they need to have a good life.

Actually, my post had a very specific point and goal - pointing out the fact that the DEA is hypocritical in dual-scheduling of cannabis, claiming that it has no approved medical use in the US (how many states now allow medical marijuana? Also, they want it approved for use by certain pharmacological business despite their claimed pretenses otherwise), and is apparently ignorant of the fact that their employer provides it to a few citizens regardless.

Lets be honest here and admit both sides are lying. Lets not be just like the politicians I'm watching today.

Fair enough, please let me know when I cross any lines and how I've done so. Much obliged, be well and blessed!

reply to post by Praetorius


You sound very reasonable to me. Except missing that the overdose comment was in reference to saying, I don't care if adults take any type of drug. This is the kind of conversation we need.

I'm no more opposed to legalization of this drug than I would be to Beer. I'm not sure how we keep it away from kids and I know that's a moot point as they can get it now. That however is what the conversation should be. We've all seen a Pothead who remained an Adolescent their whole lives because they spaced through school.

reply to post by Blaine91555

You sound very reasonable to me.

Now if I could just sound the same way to my girlfriend...

I'm not sure how we keep it away from kids and I know that's a moot point as they can get it now. That however is what the conversation should be. We've all seen a Pothead who remained an Adolescent their whole lives because they spaced through school.

Agreed, and as far as keeping it away from anyone, the sad fact is that you can't. Prohibition simply doesn't work, never has, and happens to be counterproductive since it offers the forbidden-fruit appeal as well as makes things very profitable by driving them underground.

The netherlands actually succeeded in this aspect, at least much more than we did, by effectively making marijuana boring. They made a distinction between natural 'soft' drugs and synthetic 'hard' drugs. This created separate markets for each, insulating those who would only experiment normally with the soft drugs from the world of harder drugs and those dealing them illicitly. This also resulted in lower per-capita use of ALL drugs across all age ranges when compared to the US.

Not really much we can do for one who never matured due to trapping themselves in a certain existence with the aid of cannabis or other substances, but for everyone else we can also stop wasting money on incarceration and prosecution and instead direct (and likely smaller amount of) those funds into prevention/education and treatment for those who actually have problems with these substances.

It's a public health issue, after all, not a criminal one. The prohibition is what causes crime. And the government basically admits as much with their inconsistent and preferential handling of the issue:
1) this is OK for you to make and sell. Even though it's a synthetic version of something that's 'bad'
2) this is NOT OK for you to make and sell...it's 'bad' (see exclusions: a> OK, if you're a pharmaceutical company, it's all right for you to make and sell this; b> we'll also provide this to some people even though we give everyone else a hard time about it)

I don't get it.

reply to post by Blaine91555

To say it is harmless is a lie.

If it is vaporized or eaten by a mature adult there are zero long term harmful effects.

Forks can be abused if not used properly but that doesn't mean we should bubble wrap all forks.

It negatively impacts your grades, your future and your life in more than one way.

This is merely a stereotype. I know plenty of engineers who got their BE while medicating. Study can be stressful and insomnia and depression are not fun.

All recreational drugs have some negative impact. That is the truth.

In many cases mature adults experience far more positive impacts than negative ones from their range of recreational drug use.

Are you attempting to convince yourself that it does not affect memory or learning, not to mention job performance?

Just as mature adults don't get drunk on the job or while studying for an exam, the same is true for mature users of other substances.

I'm not sure how we keep it away from kids and I know that's a moot point as they can get it now.

They can get it now because the black market doesn't ask for ID. Under 21s voted against legalization in California because it would have made it harder for them to obtain.

I don't really see the problem here. Sure it's fishy and quite an odd and glaring loophole, but it's a single step that if proven to be helpful could create the framework towards ending the War on Drugs.

I have a hard time believing that the government could just say "Whooooooops! Sorry, all these years we've been totally wrong, so let's change it all of a sudden". Small steps would help them save face, so to speak. I feel it's stupid and self-serving, but hey, whatever gets the job done.

Peace
KJ

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Praetorius

 

First I have zero issue with Adults using any drug. I don't care if they overdose. Children and Students however is another story and if it's being used during work it is not wise.

Wouldn't that depend on what your job is? We should ban all prescription drug takers from working too? Hypocritical BS and EGO EGO EGO's that's all I see anymore..

If you want honesty however, you need to be totally honest with yourself. To say it is harmless is a lie. You cant criticize one side for lying if your dishonest. I've been watching our government lie all day in the same manner.

Putting smoke into your lungs probably isn't the healthiest thing int he world but smoking cigs are far worse for you and they are legal. For most users smoking pot is a treatment. They may have depression, anxiety, post traumatic stress disorder, cancer, muscle spasms, chronic pain, or any number of things. The fact is the positive benefit received from cannabis for these people far outweighs any side effects. I know many people who function normal and they smoke every day as a treatment.

Smoking Pot is highly destructive for young people or even older kids in College. It negatively impacts your grades, your future and your life in more than one way. If you are being honest you simply can not say it's harmless. All recreational drugs have some negative impact. That is the truth.

Are you attempting to convince yourself that it does not affect memory or learning, not to mention job performance? It forms a sheath around the cells that store short term memory and impeeds it. That is simply a fact. Sitting in the yard and smoking one may be fine, but doing so while trying to learn or work is bad. You know as well as I do and probably have seen for yourself, that some kid's ruin there lives when they go down that path and destroy the education they need to have a good life.

I think the main thing Ive noticed personally is children and teenagers still have brain connections being developed. Cannabis may interfere with this process in some way but for most adults I don't even see the short term memory argument.

Lets be honest here and admit both sides are lying. Lets not be just like the politicians I'm watching today.

You have to weigh the need with the side effects. Does the treatment justify the risks. For many people marijuana has done far more with far less side effects then any prescription drug.

Whats the big damned deal? What purpose does beer and liquor serve? What does it matter? Ive alredy got a mother and a father so i really dont need a backseat driver to my life.

MOTF!

Originally posted by libertytoall
Putting smoke into your lungs probably isn't the healthiest thing int he world but smoking cigs are far worse for you

if it where legal more people would probably use vaporizers and not put smoke in there lungs. problem is there kinda hard to obtain from anywhere that isnt shady and people dont know that they dont have to smoke anymore.

ATTENTION PLEASE

As a reminder, may I call everyone's attention to the message posted at the top of every page in this Forum?

This forum is for the discussion of conspiracies, scandals, and cover-ups related to the trade and trafficking of illicit drugs, and inequities in enforcement of drug-related laws. Personal use, advocacy of legalization, and related non-conspiratorial topics are not allowed. Members posting about personal recreational use of drugs and related mind-altering substances may be banned without warning.This forum is not intended for discussion of legalization advocacy or speculation of enlightenment or spiritual possibilities related to drug use.

Bold is mine for emphasis.

Thanks.

reply to post by Praetorius


what in the world does the title have to do with the post? the title speaks of God,and the post speaks of drugs

reply to post by infojunkie2

what in the world does the title have to do with the post? the title speaks of God,and the post speaks of drugs

Sorry, it was an obscure reference - quote comes from, I believe, the second season of True Blood when some of the characters are trying to impersonate the expected "god" Mary Anne is waiting for and are called out for an obvious inconsistency - to me, this action impersonates something sensible we should call BS on.

And the post isn't really about drugs themselves, but the DEA's inconsistent and preferential-to-big-pharma handling of a natural substance, effectively proving that the shedule I classification is bunk - since they are also classifying the exact same thing as schedule III, which is simply a contradition in terms that should not be allowed. It's either got a medical use, or not. It's either too habit-forming to risk dealing with, or not. It can't be both ways.

reply to post by Praetorius


Ths decision by the FDA makes perfect sense if you keep one thing in mind: The FDA (or any government regulating organization for that matter) serves the interests of CORPORATE AMERICA first and foremost.

Any action they can take to protect the profits of private corporations is justified according to this. The reason THC has never been legalized before this is because it would have been impossible for corporations to make huge profits off of something people could simply grow in their backyards.


By making the growing of the plant illegal while making the medicinal use of THC legal, they have insured that ONLY the drug companies will be able to profit from the legalization of THC.


The government only serves to protect the interests of the property owners and big corporations against the needs of the common man. The sooner you learn this, the sooner you will be able to understand why the government makes decisions the way it does.

I wish I knew what I said that was so bad. Sorry if my post offended someone! I'm almost apprehensive to continue in this discussion now. I agree a fraud for profits has been perpetuated for decades. Fear mongering to make it seem far worse for your health then it's reality. And as you said if it is so easy to grow your own medicine the drug companies have an entire industry collapse.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Praetorius

 

First I have zero issue with Adults using any drug. I don't care if they overdose. Children and Students however is another story and if it's being used during work it is not wise.

If you want honesty however, you need to be totally honest with yourself. To say it is harmless is a lie. You cant criticize one side for lying if your dishonest. I've been watching our government lie all day in the same manner.

Smoking Pot is highly destructive for young people or even older kids in College. It negatively impacts your grades, your future and your life in more than one way. If you are being honest you simply can not say it's harmless. All recreational drugs have some negative impact. That is the truth.

Are you attempting to convince yourself that it does not affect memory or learning, not to mention job performance? That is simply not true. It forms a sheath around the cells that store short term memory and impeeds it. That is simply a fact. Sitting in the yard and smoking one may be fine, but doing so while trying to learn or work is bad. You know as well as I do and probably have seen for yourself, that some kid's ruin there lives when they go down that path and destroy the education they need to have a good life.

Lets be honest here and admit both sides are lying. Lets not be just like the politicians I'm watching today.

Let's be honest here and admit that cannabis is only a minor issue in regards to memory. Yes, while under its influence, short-term memory can slip a bit - but not hugely - and one the effects have worn off, it has no effect.

From: www.drugpolicy.org...

Fact: Marijuana has not been shown to cause long-term cognitive impairment.

Marijuana produces immediate, temporary changes in thoughts, perceptions, and information processing. The cognitive process most clearly affected by marijuana is short-term memory. In laboratory studies, subjects under the influence of marijuana have no trouble remembering things they learned previously. However, they display diminished capacity to learn and recall new information. This diminishment only lasts for the duration of the intoxication. There is no convincing evidence that heavy long-term marijuana use permanently impairs memory or other cognitive functions.

So anyone who does not need to study or remember very recent things for a few hours can use it to relieve stress (most common usage), treat insomnia, treat glaucoma, treat anorexia, treat cancer, treat Alzheimers, treat Multiple Sclerosis, treat pain, treat nausea, etc. and ad infinitum with no issues.

So though some downplay this single issue - it's pretty clear that it is a VERY minor issue - the lies that have been told against it are enormous. From claims it causes One to become a homicidal maniac (Reefer Madness) to voice-overs claiming to be doggies that "Don't like it when you get stoned, Lindsey," the disinfo runs rampant on the part of the "anti-cannabis" (moneyed interests) side.

I mean, if I had no clue and someone said, "Hey, there's this drug that has voluminous data showing that it treats and/or cures everything from stress to cancer, but while using it, you may forget what you started to say. I think we should make it illegal." I would think they were out of their ever-lovin' mind!

EDIT to add: Also... It seems that the strain of cannabis is important. Some strains reduce or eliminate the memory issues:

www.scientificamerican.com...

Smoking cannabis has long been associated with poor short-term memory, but a study now suggests that the strain of cannabis makes all the difference. In a test of short-term memory skills, only users of "skunk"-type strains exhibited impaired recall when intoxicated, whereas people who smoked hashish or herbal cannabis blends performed equally well whether they were stoned or sober.

The findings suggest that an ingredient more plentiful in some types of marijuana than in others may help to reduce the memory loss that some users suffer.

Originally posted by libertytoall
I wish I knew what I said that was so bad. Sorry if my post offended someone! I'm almost apprehensive to continue in this discussion now. I agree a fraud for profits has been perpetuated for decades. Fear mongering to make it seem far worse for your health then it's reality. And as you said if it is so easy to grow your own medicine the drug companies have an entire industry collapse.

edit on 12-4-2011 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)

Even though I generally agree with you I think your last statement is bogus. If a certain plant was hypothetically !%%*^^&(), the Pharmaceutical industry could stand to make billions. Who is the average Jane or Joe going to trust more, the local tobacco shop and their new product or a doctor prescribe product from for example Bayer?

Heck even the beer companies could stand to make billions. They have the know how, finances and market research available for mass distribution.

At this point it seems like they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.