Why I believe Creation is factually accurate – The Reality!

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by LikeDuhObviously
Same o response - can't refute the facts so create a way out.

Anything "created" has a beginning. Your post does not prove any god/creator let alone YOUR god.

You could replace Yewah with the Kukulkan & Tepeu. And it would be just as valid of an argument.

If something is "created" it has to be created sometime .. right ?

Originally posted by daskakik
While you may believe that you are basing your argument on facts the truth is that the big bang theory is just a theory and not an established fact. the other bits, earth hanging on nothing and the fine gauss are just stretching things so that they fit. This kind of stretching is easy with vague assertions like those found in the bible.

Of course everyone knows that it's a theory - that's why it's called the Big Bang Theory for lack of a better word. Who knows - cosmologists might come up with another definition sometime in the future. But right now it's currently known as Big Bang and although it's a theory the main point of the theory is well establish and undeniable - that is, The Universe had a Beginning! On this point - scientists agree but who or what started it is still hotly contested and debated. Agree?

Another example - what is gravity? Can you really define it, explain it without attaching a word to it? But we know it exist because we have evidence.

It is on this premise that I posit my evidence that the universe had beginning and that at some point in time there was no material universe. But an Entity of great power started "the ball rolling" so to speak - transformed the "dynamic energy" into matter and lo - the universe began. Do you find this bit of information a stretch?

To me it's logical and makes sense, but to say that an unguided process started all of these flies against logic and common sense. It also flies against scientific evidence.

As for "earth hanging on nothing and the fine gauss are just stretching things so that they fit" - how did I stretched it? The evidence confirmed them to so - so what's to stretched? What's so vague about it?


T,
edmc2

reply to post by Faith2011


You want to talk Genesis?

Here is a post I made on another thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In it I clearly show how "God" created using sacred geometry using Genesis as a framework.

The problem isn't that God created or didn't create. The problem is that every creation story follows the same format. The problem is that God is bigger than the small box of the exclusive domain of Christianity. And that is the point I was trying to make with my earlier post.

God=Allah=Tao=Whatever name you want to give to the Creator. The one that was in the void, the Alpha. Just because one religion uses the name God doesn't mean that God is limited to the definitions of that one religion, or that that one religion is the only true religion.

Originally posted by LikeDuhObviously

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by LikeDuhObviously
Same o response - can't refute the facts so create a way out.

Anything "created" has a beginning. Your post does not prove any god/creator let alone YOUR god.

You could replace Yewah with the Kukulkan & Tepeu. And it would be just as valid of an argument.

If something is "created" it has to be created sometime .. right ?

edit on 8-4-2011 by LikeDuhObviously because: (no reason given)

Ah, the ultimate question: Who Created the Creator? Who Created God? Did God had a beginning like the material universe?

If you can grasps the following concepts then you will understand my point:

Do you believe based on evidence that there's such a thing as Infinity? I do.

Whether through mathematics or cosmology it can be proven that Infinity exist - for example, space is infinite.
Does this knowledge bother you? True it boggles the mind but can you accept it?

Here's another - the core of the sun is about 27,000,000 degrees Fahrenheit [15,000,000°C]. Can you fathom or even understand such amount of heat? True it boggles the mind but can you accept it?

Here's another - the biggest star discovered they say has diameter of our milky way Galaxy. Can you fathom or even wrap you brain around on such a distance? True it boggles the mind but can you accept it?

I can cite many more - but the point is, if you're able to accept such mind boggling, almost impossible to comprehend wonders of the universe - why is it impossible to accept that such a being exist?

A being that the Bible says who has no Beginning and No End - fact is the scriptures calls him King of Eternity.

“Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, [the] only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.” (1 Timothy 1:17)


So the answer to the ultimate question about who created God is: NO ONE - He Always Existed!

If not - what's the alternative?

Either God does not exist thus ALL of these came into existence by unguided process or that someone created the creator - thereby creating an unending question of who is the real Creator?


But the Bible simply states the simple fact that God always existed - noone created him.

Isa 43:10 -ASV: "Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

Impossible you say. If so is Infinity impossible?

As for substituting a name for God (YHWH - Jehovah / Yahweh) you can do that but does this mean to you then that he exist? But right now we know him as Jehovah or Yahweh/Yawveh.

thx,
edmc2

So. If reality needed a creator why wouldn't your magic sky daddy?

Seems kind of selfcomforting and dishonest

Originally posted by edmc^2
Ah, the ultimate question: Who Created the Creator? Who Created God? Did God had a beginning like the material universe?

Aaahhh ... no ..
I am taking Astyanax's advice and leaving this thread.
You are just rambling at random.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
So. If reality needed a creator why wouldn't your magic sky daddy?

Seems kind of selfcomforting and dishonest

Hmmn..."selfcomforting and dishonest" I don't think so. Both logic and common sense on top of the Scriptures tells me that He Always Existed! Simple as that.

But let's go your way, if the Creator was created by a Creator then my question to you is - who created the creator of the Creator and so n so forth?

N like what I asked - I ask of you - do you believe such wonderful things in the universe exist?

Nice of you to chime in Wertdagf.

thx,
edmc2

Originally posted by LikeDuhObviously

Originally posted by edmc^2
Ah, the ultimate question: Who Created the Creator? Who Created God? Did God had a beginning like the material universe?

Aaahhh ... no ..
I am taking Astyanax's advice and leaving this thread.
You are just rambling at random.

Bye - nice to reason with you.

thx,
edmc2

Originally posted by edmc^2
Of course everyone knows that it's a theory - that's why it's called the Big Bang Theory for lack of a better word. Who knows - cosmologists might come up with another definition sometime in the future. But right now it's currently known as Big Bang and although it's a theory the main point of the theory is well establish and undeniable - that is, The Universe had a Beginning! On this point - scientists agree but who or what started it is still hotly contested and debated. Agree?

Sorry but the main point is not well established and undeniable otherwise it would be a law and not a theory. In the future they may find out they where wrong and that would make your argument wrong.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by edmc^2
Of course everyone knows that it's a theory - that's why it's called the Big Bang Theory for lack of a better word. Who knows - cosmologists might come up with another definition sometime in the future. But right now it's currently known as Big Bang and although it's a theory the main point of the theory is well establish and undeniable - that is, The Universe had a Beginning! On this point - scientists agree but who or what started it is still hotly contested and debated. Agree?

Sorry but the main point is not well established and undeniable otherwise it would be a law and not a theory. In the future they may find out they where wrong and that would make your argument wrong.

Agree - your correct, my argument will be wrong and so does the Scriptures - IF the Universe had no beginning! But fact is fact - even the brightest minds agree on that (E=mc2).

Mind if I ask you this? Do you believe that the Universe had a beginning no matter what theory it is called?

thx,
edmc2

reply to post by edmc^2


Even if everyone agrees E=mc2, this doesn't prove the big bang either.

Just scientific dogma and religious dogma walking hand in hand. Both acting like they know.

reply to post by edmc^2

Here's another - the biggest star discovered they say has diameter of our milky way Galaxy. Can you fathom or even wrap you brain around on such a distance? True it boggles the mind but can you accept it?

Nope. The biggest star is VY Canis Majoris with a diameter of 3 billion kilometers, but most of it is composed of puffed up gases much less dense than even our atmosphere, so even this number is misleading.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Even if everyone agrees E=mc2, this doesn't prove the big bang either.

Just scientific dogma and religious dogma walking hand in hand. Both acting like they know.

I'm sure you know already that E=mc2 simply put means that Energy can be transformed into matter visa-versa. Correct? If so then it can be proven that the material universe based on Einsteins formula came from energy.

In fact here's what the experts say:

In Cosmos, Carl Sagan says:

“At the beginning of this universe, there were no galaxies, stars or planets, no life or civilizations.”

He refers to the change from that state to the present universe as

“the most awesome transformation of matter and energy that we have been privileged to glimpse.”

At some point in time when E=mc2 the universe came to be.

To prove my point - please research Particle Colliders - how energy is transformed into matter.

Just a sub-micron of a particle requires so much energy to transform it into matter.

What about the Universe? Where did the energy come from? Did always existed? Or was there a source?
i
Notice again:

“Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing.” (Isaiah 40:26)


Does this makes sense to you?

thx
edmc2

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Here's another - the biggest star discovered they say has diameter of our milky way Galaxy. Can you fathom or even wrap you brain around on such a distance? True it boggles the mind but can you accept it?

Nope. The biggest star is VY Canis Majoris with a diameter of 3 billion kilometers, but most of it is composed of puffed up gases much less dense than even our atmosphere, so even this number is misleading.

en.wikipedia.org...

Thanks Maslo for the info - appreciate it. So at 3B it's still huge - bigger than our sun.

Who knows with more powerful space telescopes - we might discover even more amazing heavenly bodies.

Point is we have no problem accepting such mind blowing concepts - so why iis it so hard to believe on a Creator?

t,
edmc2

Ha Ha
This is hilarious. If this were my thread ? They atheists would be snapp'in and bite'in chomp'in at the bit.

I do have something to say.

You're the man !

What on obviously easy explaination of Moses the goat herder. I always look for these types of simplistic
reasonings. That are indusputible truths like that. So easily staring me right in the face. Good job. SnF
No body can say crap to what you've just laid out here

.

Originally posted by randyvs

Ha Ha

This is hilarious. If this were my thread ? They atheists would be snapp'in and bite'in chomp'in at the bit.

I do have something to say.

You're the man !

What on obviously easy explaination of Moses the goat herder. I always look for these types of simplistic
reasonings. That are indusputible truths like that. So easily staring me right in the face. Good job. SnF
No body can say crap to what you've just laid out here

.

edit on 8-4-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Thanks Randyvs - I appreciate it!

Guess what though, I only posted three facts - 5 more to go. Let's see what happens if I post the rest.

t,
edmc2

reply to post by edmc^2


Sorry, I do understand everything you posted. I just fail to see how the fact that matter can become energy and energy become matter proves a beginning and not just that things changing back and forth.

Sagans' quotes are an example of the scientific dogma I was talking about.

And the bible quote is the vague assertions I mentioned. "Who has created these things? It is the One"

Are you sure? I mean it could be the other one or even one of the others. Personally I have never met any of them so I will continue to doubt in all of them.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Sorry, I do understand everything you posted. I just fail to see how the fact that matter can become energy and energy become matter proves a beginning and not just that things changing back and forth.

Sagans' quotes are an example of the scientific dogma I was talking about.

And the bible quote is the vague assertions I mentioned. "Who has created these things? It is the One"

Are you sure? I mean it could be the other one or even one of the others. Personally I have never met any of them so I will continue to doubt in all of them.

The Bible even says there will be people like you in it's prophecies. People who just will not believe the truth.
So God sends them strong delusion that that they would believe a lie. Dude it really sucks that you have to be one of those people.:

EDMC
My next thread, The Three facts trhe silenced ATS. With five more waiting.

reply to post by edmc^2

Ah, the ultimate question: Who Created the Creator? Who Created God? Did God had a beginning like the material universe?

I think the problem is more one of language and concept. As the anthropomorphized being that "God" has become in the ideology of Christianity, I could understand people's problem with the idea that there was something in the nothing and where did that something come from. Void implies nothingness and from out of the void sprung creation. But consciousness needs no form just awareness. Probably closer to the Truth is that "God"/the Creator was a seed of energy (like a nucleus) energy that attained consciousness. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it just changes form. That is why it is said that "God" is omnipresent, because the energy that is the Creator split itself in order to "create" form, or rather, trans-form. The energy that is the Creator is present in Galaxies and is present in our very cells, is our very cells. Thus the esoteric maxim, "As above, So below". I agree that God just was. I don't agree with Christianities limited definition of God. Thus, in the purest sense, all of us, all of everything is God. But there is only one Creator. The many and the one.

reply to post by randyvs


No I'll believe the truth it's just that you haven't shown it to me yet. I mean the real truth here not something just to fill the void of our ignorance.