ATS: FBI Intimidates Free Thinkers

Free thinkers...don't think so. ALF, ELF and PETA are anything but free thinkers and no better than Jerry Falwell and his "thought police". In fact that's the term that first comes to mind when I think of these three groups - "thought police."

They want it their way - using any means. I am quoting from one of their websites. It involves so-called prisoners of conscience. You tell me if they are being held as a result of free-speech or if its simply because their criminals?

Josh Ellerman, brother of Colby Ellerman (see below), will be sentenced May 6th for his alleged use of pipe bombs to destroy the Utah Fur Breeder's Coop (causing over $1 million in damages). The maximum for his "offenses" is 35 years, though the prosecution has made clear that they do not want this maximum. A defense fund is being created to support the Ellermans and other Salt Lake City prisoners - details will be posted as soon as received. Also, rumors of Josh's collusion with the authorities in implicating others are false.

This political prisoner torched a leather shoe company

(US) Jacob Kenison was moved from Salt Lake City to Oklahoma and then finally to a federal prison in Arizona (refer to address below). Last news on the situation, he was being forced to wear leather work boots because he could not afford canvas shoes. If you would like to send him money towards vegan shoes, send money orders made out and sent to him at his address.

If I remember correctly this genius was also indicted for possession of incendiary devices or pipe bombs.

If ALF or ELF are planning on attending either convention it is not to have their views considered or their cause publicized, it is to destroy property and create chaos.

If you can't tell I really dislike these guys. I patron several animal rescue orgs. and often time they are lumped into the same category. It is difficult to get people to donate to small orgs because they think they are all like ALF.

ALF

.
Well, I don't see the FBI interrogating Jerry Falwell. What about abortion clinic bombers? What about abortion doctor assassinations? That's not terrorism?

So these freethinking groups are criminals? Have they killed anyone?

Often 'legality' is simply cultural predjudices written into law.

Such as tobbacco and marijuana. One kills 450,000 Americans every year and is legal, the other has never been shown to kill anyone and is illegal.

I think the US government may be creating more enemies here at home the same ignorant way it has managed to do in the arab world.
.

[edit on 25-7-2004 by slank]

Originally posted by slankWell, I don't see the FBI interrogating Jerry Falwell. What about abortion clinic bombers? What about abortion doctor assassinations? That's not terrorism?

I believe that was the point I was making - that these people employ the same methods. Do it our way, believe what we want you to believe. They are no better. And as for Falwell he would never dirty his hands nor would the ALF heirarchy. It's the mindless minions that follow these groups.

So these groups are criminals?

Yes, I think that is clear in that some of their members have been convicted for destruction of property and using pipebombs.

Have they killed anyone?

This justifies their actions how?

Often 'legality' is simply cultural predjudices written into law.
Such as tobbacco and marijuana. One kills 450,000 Americans every year and is legal, the other has never been shown to kill anyone and is illegal.

How are the methods employed by these groups a "legal technicality?" Is there grey area I am missing - is this the "as long as I agree with the cause, it's anything goes?"

Originally posted by Bleys
Is there grey area I am missing - is this the "as long as I agree with the cause, it's anything goes?"

yea the entire government is a gray area, they do what they what using any means. Dont get me wrong we are lucky to have a government where we can be almost free and when i say that i mean it's said that we have freedom of speech, yea right. Our government uses mass hasteria and fear to controle the population. We are not being told the entire truth about these "free-thinkers" being detained. Are we not all "free-thinkers."

Actually, I think some of the Indy Media centers have been hassled by the government (FBI, I think). There was some discussion because an IMC's records had been requested and the IMC was concerned about protecting its members' privacy.

I have no problem at all with FBI field agents. My personal experience has been that they are top quality law enforcement officers doing a tough job. Unfortunately upper and middle management of the FBI has been politicized by the appointment of unqualified personnel for reasons of patronage and political ideology. This is a spit in the face of qualified career FBI agents and a grave danger to the US. I chastise both republicans and democrats for this trend.

IMHO had the FBIs management not dropped the ball because they were incompetent and untrained to analyze the information being passed up the chain by the field agents, 9/11 may well have been prevented.

FBI abuses are coming from the top.
.

agreed. I would never blame the firld agents. It is deffently coming from the top, and not just the top of the FBI all of the departments. Cruption.

Who cares? Good for the FBI. These aren't just "free thinkers." I am a "free thinker" but you don't see me going around and killing people, blowing up houses and other places, all in the name of animal rights. No, that is what I call delusional, idiotic, and ridiculous, and the FBI has every right to investigate into these people's CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES.

yea but innoicent until proven guilty.

So these freethinking groups are criminals? Have they killed anyone?

So only killers are criminals?

*wrong forum, now posting legitmate reply*

yeah i like how you guys started off by regurgitating the free thinker / slacker / geek routine and then branched out into only concentrating on how bad ELF and ALF are. though they commit crimes, its off the topic, which is how the fbi lumps things together to manage preception. You kind of just did the job for them.

[edit on 2004-7-28 by NuTroll]