The American Dream? 2 Jobs = $10,080 /yr

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


Yeah go to India, there should be plenty of jobs there.....since so many have come to America for jobs and property.

reply to post by 30_seconds


This sounds very sad and I have been where you are right now mate. In my opinion alot of stresses on soceity these days, such as you own, are the by-product of over population and a general lack of eduction (world wide).

But hey! You're still alive and kicking tho right?

All is not so bad. Chin up Tiger.

A couple weeks ago, I can't remember where I read it though, over 700 people showed up to apply for a single janitorial job. That is scary.

reply to post by lifeform11


Its not the same in the UK at all.

These stories present the cold reality of the "new normal". I am heartened to see I've read this far without a single it's those "blakety blank" "darr-for ican-ocrats"! We waste so much energy fighting amongst ourselves. We desperately need a paradigm changer...

I think the expensive education machine has about worn out its welcome too in a world where a "b.s degree" is the new "high school" diploma.stacking paper certificates on the wall (and monster debt) will soon be a thing of the past.

O.P. played by the rules and "they" folded up the game board and put it away just before he passed "Go" to get his $200.00. I'm sure he is but a single example of the casualties in a huge " Zombie army" of "working wounded".The shop I work at seems to have a daily discussion of "the good old day when we sold 20 motorcycles a weekend.Now we subsist on 2 a week and service.work which is billed at a loss( really doesn't pay)And we are the only shop still alive in about 40 miles.The internet has reshaped the used market ...Adaptations or new ideas are needed just to keep your nose above the water line.The "old" is dying and falling away.

I did ok , retired and a bit of money to provide my son with an education to avoid any student loans . Everyone told him , specialize and go high tech because that's where the jobs are and will be . He enrolled in a 3 year diploma program at a community college in electrical engineering technology/computer science and graduated with two technologist diplomas 3 years later . Before graduation and after it was over 300 applications and resumes sent out , not just online but everyone backed up with a hard copy . 3rd in his class and the deans honor roll . Several interviews with the best offer being 12 bucks per hour with no or few benefits .

We found a very good university and he enrolled in a 4 year degree program , electrical engineering and graduated last June , top of the class and deans honor list . 300 more applications and resumes out from last June to Christmas when he landed a job . Salary for a consulting firm is $27,000.00 and few benefits for a minimum of 60 hours per week and ofter more with no overtime pay . Last week he worked 3 - 18 hour days , one 8 and one 12 . This is now with 7 years of post secondary education and he's willing to relocate anywhere .

A friend of his works for a power line construction company and just called to tell him that they posted a job last week for a 1st year apprentice lineman . Starts at 13 bucks but there are benefits . The problem is that the job has been posted for almost two weeks and closes in two weeks and they already have over 400 applications for the one job . With over $100K invested in his education i never expected this , and neither did he . 26 years old and living at home .

We are raising the most highly educated , unemployed and under employed generation in history and many are graduating with heavy debt loads . Several of his friends have went on to graduate degree programs for no other reason than they couldn't find a job with a high tech undergrad degree so the graduate degree is nothing more than a place to mark time while accumulating more debt . My son worked 5 summers forest fire fighting which is hard work for not much pay and even they aren't hiring . He has zero time off as he contracts on the weekends with a security company installing home and business alarms for 12 bucks per hour . 6 days off since Christmas . As an electrical engineer he's making about $2,500.00 per month but divided by the hours worked in a month , about 10 bucks . The total is over 600 applications and resumes , maybe 12 interviews and he's willing to go anywhere .

Alright, to summarize the solutions to this problem that I have heard in this thread, I'll list them here:


1) Be the man
2) Don't give up
3) Don't settle for so little.
4) Don't be lazy
5) Don't pursue such a useless degree


I will address all these.

1) Wonderful idea! And, to tell the truth, I run a little side business off the books. If I didn't, I'd starve. It's competitive and hard to gain a share of the market when you're up against major corporations with advertising budgets and public reputations, but I get a little. I have a great deal of creativity and would like to express it, have control of something that is mine, and build it into something valuable. But it comes back to that problem of credit, land, or materials.

2) I haven't given up yet. But I see the trend the last 10 years and know where it's heading. And it isn't slowing down.

3) It's tough to negotiate for a higher wage or try and find a better paying job when "the labor market" sets wages based on supply and demand. Or, in these times - desperation.

4) If I'm lazy then I don't know a hard worker.

5) Can't go back in time. I originally went to become a teacher, but I still need a master's degree and certification, plus about $10k more to finish. Getting into more debt so that I can teach seems silly when right now I am watching them close schools and fire teachers due to state-wide budget cuts. How's a new teacher going to get hired when they're firing those that already teach?


After much study, I have concluded this:

That the value created by the average worker is much more than the value they receive in their paycheck.

Where is this surplus value going?

To the rich. They obtain more and more, have greater and greater influence, give the masses fewer and fewer choices (or ways out) and then blame the poor for the inaccessability to credit, land, or materials.

"Supply and demand" is driving the price of most things out of reach of most people, because there are wealthy people out there that CAN afford to own businesses, apartments, and land, and when having to compete with the wealthy to obtain these things, the price is generally out of reach for those who work for a living compared to the investor class.

It seems that the only people that are making money in this world already have plenty of it. The rest of us are (*&*d.

This world is being stolen from us, and the masses are being left with fewer and fewer options. When somebody else already owns the land, materials, and means of production, how is your itty bitty self going to compete with an already-entrenched system to slice off a piece of the pie so you can have a future?

I'd like to buy a home. Be able to take care of a family. I'm 36 and single because I almost feel ashamed of myself for my financial situation. I feel like I should be able to do better. Should I continue to blame myself or is something else wrong?

reply to post by 30_seconds


I don't live in the USA but surely not everyone with a Bsc is earning $9.00 per Hour? If they are move to another country where your skills and education will be appreciated. If they are not well you should be looking harder for a better paying job. I know for a fact you get a truck load more than that for Lab work where I come from!. But then again maybe that's why I live in the "Lucky Country"! You are worth more!

reply to post by phatpackage


I have friends, family, and a place I've called home all my life. To make a living, I should leave all these things behind?

reply to post by 30_seconds


As I said does everyone with a Bsc make $9.00 per hour?

reply to post by 30_seconds


that's what many of the very first americans did when they left their home countries...

as bad as this sounds we need to strengthen our immigration laws. Get them out of our country. They say they want a better living over here in the United States but in reality yes it may be better here and they will make some money but they are taking away jobs from us Americans, so it leaves us CITIZENS without work and we struggle keep afloat.

reply to post by 30_seconds


Its crappy isn't it? I work 2 jobs here in texas also. I mow in the mornings for $10 hr. and in the evenings I operate heavy equipment for $9 hr. It is sad to see my son not have the things that he should have because of the elite holding on to paperbacks. Its killing my body to keep a family going and texas always knocking on my asking for money for false charges.

Don't complain to me, dumb #. You supported your country and your country did not support you back. Now you're #ed. You live on $10 k a year while politicians and CEOs make over $300 k a year. Just wait until the widespread blood shed, the carpet bombings from Nato, the nukes and dirty bombs that are gonna tear this country apart. No one seems to understand that we are about as import as a country physically as libyan and they're getting the # bombed out of them. Same thing is gonna happen here, and guess what, no one is gonna give a #. We'll have millions dead and it'll just be another day. Now is the time to learn mandarin and move to china while we still have a chance. America is gonna be the sam exact thing as Mexico, just watch. I don't give a # if you believe me or not, because you'll all mostly be dead with your children.

Originally posted by Count Chocula

Well that kind of confirms my suspicions with your smarmy answer and previous posting of pie-in-the-sky platitudes and probably zero real world experience. You don't (haven't) practiced anything you go on and on about, otherwise you could at least presented a little personal experience.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Now you confirm my suspicions with this post that your nothing more than a smarmy Marxist fool, not only expecting that people give you a job, but you expect them to give you enlightenment as well. What difference does it make to you what I do when it is all "pie in the sky" to you anyway? What is your message? Surrender? Don't even dare to imagine that you are good enough to create your own business? Is this your message.

I am a freelance writer. I walked away from my job of 15 years two years ago, because I found myself in a position of working 6 to 7 days a week from 9 am to 9 pm, and when times got tough I was expected to keep working those hours and take a pay cut to boot, because as my employer explained it to me, I "was lucky to have a job". Now I am lucky to have clients, without any of the crap I used to tolerate.

That is my personal experience. How does that relate to you? What will you do with this? Dismiss it? Of course you will, because you have nothing to offer except that which you can take.

Originally posted by Count Chocula

Oh I see you're (btw Mr Freelance writer it's you're not your) one of those people who sees a marxist in everyone that doesn't believe they can become a multi-billionaire just by being a God feariing, flag waving patriot. Nonsense.

And my position remains. I am seeing a whole generation of young men from working and middle class families that are idling away their time working in some McDonalds type job with absolutely no chance to repeat what I did when I was younger. That is reality.

The fact is we no longer have an economy where we produce the kind of wealth we did when we had a manufacturing base. Service industries do not create wealth. Freelance writing does not create wealth. Working at Mickey D's does not create wealth.

You cannot tear down the fundamentals of the system that created the greatest generation, kept a solid middle class lifestyle through the 70s and expect mine and your service industries to survive. It's game over.

He's not worth it Zodeaux,
Ignore him.
Just another chimpanze.


In chimpanze culture there is a single senior male and a brood of females. As young males are born to the pack, eventually they get old enough to want a mate. The females then arange to force the senior male and the new challenger together to have it out. They fight. The winner is the new senior...

but the loser... well the entire tribe stops grooming them. Inside of two years they are dead.

The important thing to notice in this system is that men make no decisions in the process. The women decide when the fight happens, and who is pitted against whom. Or they just drive off the young males on their own before they can become a challenger.

This leads to a strange thing in the wilds outside of any brood or tribe.
Occassionally a band of rejected adolecent males will form, and
sometimes they become big enough to challenge a brood.

They come in like a gang of vikings, destroy the senior
and take all the women. The entire tribe is ruined.
It never recovers from the ensuing fragmentation.
Just Like Alexander The Greats kingdom
after his death. The former generals
fight amoung themselves.


What we have here in Count Chocula
is a young challenger who thinks if he beats you
he will get the whole brood, and be king of the tribe.

But actually sharing your wisdom and experience with him is a waste of life.


David Grouchy

You are worth more than what people treat you like. You have a degree thats fantastic maybe one day you can start your own blood testing business and others will work for you ...we must feel the pain before we feel the joy never give up and be happy you are healthy and walking around things could be worse

Best case scenario in America.... (for the average Joe/Jane)

You come into enough money that you no longer have any debts.
You buy a home and a car... meaning no mortgage or car payment.
Now you have to pay property taxes 4X per year on that house you OWN outright.
You also have to pay for car insurance (not all states), registration fees & excise taxes on the car you OWN.

Already you are racking up debt and you haven't done anything besides sitting at home and owning these items.

If you decide your property taxes are too high and unfair.... tough, you have no choice, pay orelse they will confiscate your owned property on THEIR land.

That is my current situation. I saw down the road and decided to drop out of college early on, I have no debts at all right now. No mortgage, no car pmt, no credit card debts, just my utility bills.... and property taxes and the costs to be allowed to drive on public roads and highways.
I can't afford just THIS alone! The costs of food, gasoline, electricity, water/sewerage, homeowner's insurance, heating my house 6 months/yr, and the "what if this breaks down" costs = negative monthly income accrual.

I don't know how you guys make ends meet "with" a mortgage, rent, student loans, and car payments on top of those other things I mentioned. If this doesn't change, we will all inevitably lose everything we worked so hard for to the banks and big corporations. If we don't implement change soon, we are all going down with the Titanic.

@Count Chocula:

Really guy? Please explain to me what value your posts have to the OP, and anyone else in a similar situation?

All Im hearing is negativity, despair and hopelessness. Do you feel superior having a business for 20yrs and sharing that with the class?

What exactly are you contributing to this thread? You are basically saying "my generation had it good, I made the best of it, but YOU guys are screwed" "oh by the way I'm doing great, and own a business for 20yrs"

Now I'm not downplaying the hard work you must have put in to get there, and by all intents and purposes, you probably deserve the success you have had. But to share that with the rest of us and offer NO ADVICE or HOPE whatsoever on how we can achieve the same in this economy?

And to top it off you go after other posters who talk about us having the ability to change things, and use our ingenuity to break free from the chains of wage slavery and say there is no chance?

That alone makes your posts worthless negative dreck, that I will happily overlook and instead move on to something and someone of substance.

@Jean Paul Zodeaux

You are pretty much correct in your observations. I enjoyed reading your reply's here, and also the fact that you do not endorse giving up but instead of trying our hardest to bring about change. A positive message in the midst of overwhelming negativity.

Always good to see you on the boards.

@30_Seconds

I have not went to college for some of the very reasons you have stated. What can we do? I always think about things this way: Either you kill yourself and leave all of it behind, OR if that's not something you'd like to do, then lets try our hardest and see where it leads.

Many times we don't know how or why things happen, but when you are living a full life with no worry about finances, you will look back on the "coincidental" events in your life, and realize that it was all part of the plan brother. I am in the same boat at the moment, and would rather sleep on a park bench than work for "the man" again.

My thread about work being un-natural will pretty much sum up the rest of my thoughts on this matter. Me and you, and the rest of us stuck in similar situations need to find something where the work we put in is directly correlated to the output we receive (easier said than done I know)

Heres a place to start 3 links to sites that give ideas on how to start a business with little to NO money:

www.startbreakingfree.com...

abcnews.go.com...

www.myownbusiness.org...

Wish you all the success in the world!

--GeminiSky

At this point in time, I really thinking that the only way to even attempt to maintain a descent living is to go into business for yourself. I'm not saying its easy, or that it's without risk, because that's definitely not the case, but in my post college experience it seems to be the only way.

Someone asked if those making a crap wage were really trying or if they were good workers. Let me tell you about my experience working for a major retailer. I started when I was 18, just starting college, and just eligible to work there. I scheduled school around work and was always available during the "peak" hours or seasons that they wanted. I held the same position throughout college (4 yrs) I went from 8 dollars an hour to 10 dollars an hour and then I was capped off. I would come in early, but they don't want that because then they have to pay you. So, I would just go in when they called for back up or whatever. After college they asked if I could transfer to another store about an hour away because they had issues and wanted my help. I went, like a dummy, because they promised me a promotion to manager after it was all done. I went, I cleaned up the mess, I worked my ass off, but the promotion went to some girl who was better friends with one of the managers. So, I transferred back to my home store because well honestly I was a little hurt, plus it wasn't worth the expense.

A year later I get a phone call that they want me back, the girl they gave the job to was a thief and they had her arrested , again, the job is mine. I go, and when I arrive I find out that another manager told another girl the same story and we are supposed to compete for the job. As annoyed as I was, I played along, this time I got the job...a $2 raise good for me.....or so I thought. A few months after I got the position corporate decided they were going to get rid of the position, that's it game over good bye.

I frickin ran that store, don't tell me that people don't work hard or don't try. Everyone single one of my superiors came to me to learn how to do things, and by learn, they really just wanted to shove it off on me and not actually learn...why would they, they had me. I never complained, I did everything that was asked of me and much much more. Still the only way you can advance to a livable wage was to know the right corporate people.