H.A.A.R.P.ing nature to death? Is nature capable of anything anymore?

From the looks of it, especially around here at ATS, mother nature is incapable of about damn near anything anymore.

There seems to be a steady influx of new members and posts that peddle the opinion that earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, pretty much any natural disaster you can think of, only occur because of the almighty, all powerful humans, and in no way would nature, or to better describe it, could nature be capable of ever doing things of such a level.

The herd mentally that seems to be spreading is that for anything the herd does not understand, the herd blames H.A.A.R.P.

And why not, Jesse Ventura went there and yelled at the security gaurd, and that was on tv, and he was a governor, so he must be right!

Is it not possible that nature is a lot more powerful and complex than we can understand, and these things that happen and are simply the inherent dynamics of the planet we inhabit? Or is it all a systematic plan by "they" for "what" ever reason is the flavor of the month?

Or is it an even bigger conspiracy?

I think so. I honestly think it works a lot like the way the government dealt with the UFO phenomenon, except this time around, the govt. doesnt have to lift a finger because all the "nature doubters" do the work for them.

All you people screaming HAARP is responsible for the tsunami in Japan to a leaf blowing in the wind are the ones pushing the agenda.

Whats the next best thing to being omniscient?

Having people think you're omniscient.

Fear is a great tool, and to have literally millions of the world citizens, and even some ignorant dictators under the impression that the US can control every facet of nature would be quite terrifying.

So what incentive would the government have to dispell the rumors?...NONE, because for one, they don't have to do a thing, the internet does it itself, and two, the govt. loves power.

Here's a list of natural disasters, please keep in mind that construction of HAARP was started in 1993, and the current IRI completed in 2007, so for the sake of argument, please look at all the disaters pre-1993.

If HAARP is responsible for these kinds of natural disasters, how did natural disasters occur before HAARP?

I agree with you completely. I have nothing more to add at this moment other than, i don't think people understand how powerful nature can be. Though it can be manipulated, men who want to play god, will be wiped out by nature.

I guess you haven't heard that Big Brother killed Mother Nature years ago. Now get to the nearest mall, kneel down and pay for forgiveness. Big Brother hates having his authority questioned

reply to post by ZombieJesus


Your point is easy enough to understand. Yet....

The ability of nature to wreck devastation is obvious... man wrecking devastation or even wrecking nature, is also on the table... a virus can kill, as nature and history illustrates... yet ALSO bio-weapons research can produce deaths... So Nature is on the one hand and on the other is man-made manipulations of the process...

HAARP and "exotic weapons" are in this game as well. Granted "Nature" can be a catastrophic geophysical model which will forever put to rest the ol' continental drift, tectonic plates gradual change theory pushed from the 60s...

That would not eliminate man's possible involvement. I understand your post, in deed. I also understand those with ideas along the man-made manipulation threads. Edgar Cayce ( an American psychic ) gave a reading declaring that ...

"As to the changes physical again: The earth will be broken
up in the western portion of America. The greater portion of
Japan must go into the sea. The upper portion of Europe will
be changed as in the twinkling of an eye. Land will appear
off the east coast of America. There will be the upheavals
in the Arctic and in the Antarctic that will make for the
eruption of volcanos in the Torrid areas, and there will be
shifting then of the poles..."

Edgar Cayce
Reading: 3976-15 ( 1934 )

Would such events, or even ONE event listed here, fall under the Nature does this? What of it being stated from a man talking in his sleep in 1934? Let alone, what of HAARP? Sure such things can all be thrown in one file and filed away... Yet Cayce spoke about "pole shifts" long before "Science" came to the same field in the 1980's.

Again... I DO understand your post... but if you AND those talking HAARP and other exotic weapons seek for the truth... the reality.... maybe a finding on the matter both haven't expected will become apparent?

It's a matter of investigating and NOT letting some government press release or "Scientific" we know it all fallacy, explain away ones investigation?

Tesla was convinced he caused the Tunguska event.... Give him his due eh? And give others the benefit of the doubt? There is much to investigate, but cutting ideas off, like HAARP, won't help in such investigations.

As I mentioned before... a biological weapon is nature alright... and also man's manipulation and use of it. It wouldn't be wise to claim ALL dis-eases are nature and NOT man because history had nature killing off people who needed to learn how to live with nature.

The Biotech industry and science, is an excellent example of this process... Man changes genetics of life-forms in a way Nature NEVER does and then what? They know what they are doing? lol ... ok I'm amusing myself now....

Again I hope you understand my post. What you commented on is valid... but I hope you don't mean to end the investigation of ATS members. Exotic Weapons are in treaties and high level conferences... and EARTH QUAKE causing technology is among them.

Trust me when I say this, Mother Earth will unleash her fury and vengance. Everytime we think we've got a handle on her she employs a difernent tactic. Mother Nature will always win. Never forget this as she was here before us and will continiue to be here long after we are gone.

reply to post by ZombieJesus
So right..."It isn't that liberals are ignorant, it's just they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Wilson Reagan

Yay. finally a realist has a say. And whaddya know - the herd ignores him

HAARPs belong to Angels in heaven

Seriously though, as someone pointed out further up with the Cayce prophesies, there are loads of prophets that warn of a time of increased disasters. None of them mention a malevolent set of TV antennae bringing on the end of the world.

New Conspiracy - maybe HAARP is actually a covert US plan to invade Mars. Perhaps they are beaming bad reruns of shows like Survivor and American idol to the planet and driving the martians to suicide

reply to post by ZombieJesus


I agree also. I don't know enough about HAARP to know what it really can't or can do. Hey, maybe there are times where there appears to be some correlation between HAARP and natural disasters but most of the time I think that, well, natural disasters are just that. Natural.

reply to post by ZombieJesus


I agree with you about the tremendous power of nature.

I also wonder what our constant meddling with and serious abuse of mother Earth is doing.

There have been more than 2'000 nuclear test bombs set off,many of these underground, constant drilling and pillaging, chemicals, DU, weather modification and more - and these are only the things that we know of.

Does anybody know what effect all this violence against our planet is having?

We know for a fact that the governments of the world hide much of what they are doing. People are suspicious, and rightly so.

You aggressively criticise those who believe that currently the US and perhaps other governments are using technology to create earthquakes and destructive weather - have you any proof this is not the case?

Why not blame those who are responsible for hiding what they are doing from the public which funds them? Why not also acknowledge that their lies breed mistrust and suspicion.

Yes, mother nature is extremely powerful, and yes, planet Earth is also constantly being abused and tampered with by lunatic governments.

Where does one end and the other begin? Are you in a position to provide that information?

HAARP is just a convenient way for sheltered, inexperienced people to try and find order and meaning out of a world they know nothing about.

And since most of the ignorance can very often be attributed to very poorly-funded public schools, one could say that gov't IS to blame for HAARP. Or at least, for people being 'tupid enough to believe in it.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
HAARP is just a convenient way for sheltered, inexperienced people to try and find order and meaning out of a world they know nothing about.

And since most of the ignorance can very often be attributed to very poorly-funded public schools, one could say that gov't IS to blame for HAARP. Or at least, for people being 'tupid enough to believe in it.

Ummm Wow I agree and wish I could buy ya a beer!! Sometimes life isn't as complicated as people want tomake it

Originally posted by mikellmikell

Ummm Wow I agree and wish I could buy ya a beer!! Sometimes life isn't as complicated as people want tomake it

Actually, I think HAARP is likely a way for people to simplify very complex systems of geologic and planetary activity they dont understand in the slightest.

But I like beer.

reply to post by wcitizen

I also wonder what our constant meddling with and serious abuse of mother Earth is doing.

There have been more than 2'000 nuclear test bombs set off,many of these underground, constant drilling and pillaging, chemicals, DU, weather modification and more - and these are only the things that we know of.

Agreed. I am in no way an advocate or apologist of nuclear testing. With the testing being so current (by current, I mean the past 70 years, while the half life of many isotopes is in the 1000's if not 100,000's to millions of years), I believe the that the full effects of what has been done to the earth will never be fully realized due to the fact that there is no second "earth" to use as a control to compare the results of the nuclear testing.

We know for a fact that the governments of the world hide much of what they are doing. People are suspicious, and rightly so.

Agreed.

You aggressively criticise those who believe that currently the US and perhaps other governments are using technology to create earthquakes and destructive weather - have you any proof this is not the case?

I criticize the fear mongering because there is no corroborating evidence that indicates HAARP is responsible for natural disasters. I do not have proof that the governments cannot manipulate natural disasters, but the same goes for the opposing side of the argument. So far, the majority of the opposing side of the argument is nothing but "what if's" and "could be doing", while recorded history shows that these kind of events have been going on naturally well before our current technological age.

Why not blame those who are responsible for hiding what they are doing from the public which funds them? Why not also acknowledge that their lies breed mistrust and suspicion.

People always need to be weary of their governments.

I do blame the governments for the terrible things we KNOW they are doing, and even things that maybe we don't quite know, but empirical evidence points to yes. What I don't like to do, is give credit where it ISN'T due, and implying that TPTB can control and cause natural disasters is putting them pretty high on the pedestal.

Where does one end and the other begin?

When evidence is shown that humanity does in fact have the technology to manipulate the earth, I believe it will become clear as to where one starts and the other begins, but until then, it's merely conjecture.

Originally posted by wcitizen


You aggressively criticise those who believe that currently the US and perhaps other governments are using technology to create earthquakes and destructive weather - have you any proof this is not the case?

I'm always amazed when I come across this line of thinking. "Burden of proof' implies that the one claiming something EXISTS is obligated to provide evidence. Demanding others PROVE something doesnt exist, without proving it's existence, makes no sense.

You might as well say Santa Clause delivers presents every year because no one has ever seen him NOT do it.

hmmmm double post

reply to post by incrediblelousminds

You might as well say Santa Clause delivers presents every year because no one has ever seen him NOT do it.

Best analogy of the week

Originally posted by ZombieJesus
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

You might as well say Santa Clause delivers presents every year because no one has ever seen him NOT do it.

Best analogy of the week

I concur.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by wcitizen


You aggressively criticise those who believe that currently the US and perhaps other governments are using technology to create earthquakes and destructive weather - have you any proof this is not the case?

I'm always amazed when I come across this line of thinking. "Burden of proof' implies that the one claiming something EXISTS is obligated to provide evidence. Demanding others PROVE something doesnt exist, without proving it's existence, makes no sense.

You might as well say Santa Clause delivers presents every year because no one has ever seen him NOT do it.

No, burden of proof lies squarely on the person making an allegation. They have to provide proof to back up their allegation.

In any case, as it is very clear, I am NOT demanding proof. I am making the point that he can't prove his opinion either.

I never really bought into the HAARP thing, I definitely considered it and I still think it can/might be used for some things, but people are always so quick to claim HAARP as a cause for everything. Nature is capable of so many things, and is so unpredictable...

I always wonder, with the propensity for the military to take advantage of technology and all, why HAARP hasn't been developed into a really sophisticated weapon system of some kind that has a meaningful purpose? That's what usually happens when something is discovered to have such a potential, and yet, there's no actual proof you can use it for a weapon! It makes a great cell phone for somebody though !