Why is pro choice only a women decision?

I was all ready to put my two cents in on your thread, until I started reading it and saw that the title is a little misleading. I really thought this was about a man wanting the baby and the woman wanting an abortion. I was totally ready to crusade for you. Now, not so much.
Have you looked into relinquishing your rights to the child? I know of men who have done that and therefore have no legal obligation to the child. I think that's a fairly scumbag thing to do, but the child would be better off without said scumbag in their life anyway.

reply to post by Helious


I have only read a couple of these posts on this thread.
The main issues is that you were lied to by these women.
You trusted them when they said they were on the pill.
Their betrayal has left you having to support children you
hadn't planned on having.
You will just have to make the most out of the situation.
Remember,those children didn't ask to be born.They are
yours and raise them the best that you can.Maybe one
day they will make you proud to be their father.
When in doubt,wrap it up!

If you have sex you have to expect to have a child....

reply to post by Helious


I feel for you. I've always felt there should be a male equivilent to a female's abortion rights. For the lack of a better term, call it a "financial abortion", where the male can relenquish any rights and responsibilities for the child, just like when a woman has an abortion. To be equally fair, this legal proceedure must conform to the same time frame as the woman's right to choose to have an abortion, i.e. first or second trimester, or whatever the timeframe is.

Maybe if enough men's rights groups got together and brib... er ... lobbied Congress, such a law could be passed.

Here's some crazy suggestions:

dont date or have sex with lunatics and liars. Not all women are hysterical and emotionally out of control.. its YOU that keep choosing that type or are only capable of attracting that type.

Take some responsibility for yourself, be a big boy, and either wear a condom or dont have intercourse. There are plenty of things to do that dont involve the risk of pregnancy and are mutually satisfying for both ADULT partners.

One instance of this is a mistake, 2 is an on purpose.If this keeps happening to you consider that maybe you are the common factor and not every female on the planet.

Dont be a fool and live up to your responsibilities. Your conscious decisions brought another human being into the world that you must support. The child did not do this to you.. you did it to you.


OP, in reality you really do have control over whatever happens in these situations. Your choices alone brought you to this place. The woman might be a real loon and liar, but you must consider what that says about you and not only your choice to take the chance on pregnancy by having sex with a loon and a liar, but why you do it not once.. but TWICE.
After being offended and getting your feelings hurt by the posts here ( and its only natural that you will) .. really look objectively at your situation and your personal choices. Id love it if you didnt make the same "mistakes" a third time. For you as much as for the children you randomly bring into being with women as careless as yourself.
SO you understand where IM coming from and not just bashing to bash.. my uncle who is only a few yrs older than me and like my brother has a similar issue. In his latest marriage that lasted a year... this is his 5th marriage btw... he got a fruitcake pregnant and as soon as that test came back positive she left. WHen the baby was born she divorced him and got alimony, child support, etc. He is left with nothing and attached to a loon for 18 yrs.. the kid is in the middle. He is 13 and its been 13 yrs of HELL for everyone.. even us outside family members. Im so fed up with it. BUT.. in the end.. it was his doing. HE chose and married yet another moron... this one just happened to be a predatory moron.
It happens my friend.. but you like the uncle.. you are the reason it keeps happening to you. Hate women all you want.. but YOU keep choosing losers, psychos, liars, and etc. Maybe ask yourself why you keep consciously choosing that type when there are others who are obviously not this way. If you cant find any you are either not looking in the right place, enjoy the drama yourself, or you yourself are not attractive to normal women. You can change it.. when or if you finally realize it. There are just as many defective women as men out there.. perhaps consider what Im saying

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom
reply to post by Helious

 

I feel for you. I've always felt there should be a male equivilent to a female's abortion rights. For the lack of a better term, call it a "financial abortion", where the male can relenquish any rights and responsibilities for the child, just like when a woman has an abortion. To be equally fair, this legal proceedure must conform to the same time frame as the woman's right to choose to have an abortion, i.e. first or second trimester, or whatever the timeframe is.

Maybe if enough men's rights groups got together and brib... er ... lobbied Congress, such a law could be passed.

How about not passing the buck or begging the govt to save you from your own stupidity and just wear a condom, get a vasectomy, do other things besides intercourse, or maybe even stop having random sex with defectives? Taking some personal responsibility is pretty easy IMO.

reply to post by Advantage


I would guess the same advice would apply to women seeking abortions.

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom
reply to post by Advantage

 

I would guess the same advice would apply to women seeking abortions.

Yes it would ....obviously. Personal responsibility is a good thing. However, this thread title was misleading and NOT about abortion.. maybe read the posts.

Originally posted by Helious
During a committed relationship when your significant other assures you she is on birth control, what man would continue to buy and wear condoms?]

A smart man.
A man who is in control of his procreation choices.
A man who doesn't want kids.

Edit to add: I'm really sorry you found yourself in this position. So many men find themselves in your shoes. That's what I don't understand. Why aren't men learning to make better choices? There are millions of stories out there of guys who get a girl pregnant and then have no recourse. But that's the way it works in today's society. Once the sperm is in her body, whatever happens in there is OUT of your control. No, it's not fair. It's life.

Since the fetus is IN her body, it's under her control. You guys know this ahead of time. Make your decision THEN, because after that, the choice is out of your hands.

Originally posted by Advantage

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom
reply to post by Advantage

 

I would guess the same advice would apply to women seeking abortions.

Yes it would ....obviously. Personal responsibility is a good thing. However, this thread title was misleading and NOT about abortion.. maybe read the posts.

edit on 7-4-2011 by Advantage because: left out a sentence

Of course I read the posts. I wasn't trying to be snarky or anything. It just seemed to me that the OP was trying to say if women have the option of terminating their motherhood, shouldn't fathers have a similar option? I believe they should, legally speaking of course. Like yourself, I think people would be better off just taking responsibility for their own actions rather than relying on the government.

That being said, I don't think anyone has to worry that any "father's rights" legislation will be passed. States make too much money from the current child support system, and the military always needs a steady stream of cannon fodder from lower income broken homes.

reply to post by Helious


If you haven't yet, you may want to consult a family law lawyer or other lawyer specializing in this. You may have certain legal avenues to terminate your parental rights (and thus support).

In the final analysis though, YOU chose to put the burden solely on her for protection...the fact she may have lied doesn't magically absolve you of responsibility.

However, I do have to agree, that if a father is denied any role in decision making or upbringing of the child, then the father should not have to pay for it. (taxation without representation is pretty much why we fought for independence from England in the first place).

Originally posted by Helious
Very simply, I have been in two committed relationships where the women has had a pre determined mental condition I was not informed of, I involved myself and progressed the relationship to the point we lived together.

During a committed relationship when your significant other assures you she is on birth control, what man would continue to buy and wear condoms? Most people who either suffer from Bi polar disorder or Borderline personality disorder all feel the same way, they think the more they sink themselves into the relationship, the more they control and can manipulate the situation.

Having been lied too outright, manipulated and ultimately abused by my significant other, I now have the state telling me, it is this crazy girls decisions alone that rules the day and I am powerless to make any decision. I guess I should of wore a condom with the girl I have been with for 2 years, that I live with, who told me she was on birth control............ So my fault.

So now, I guess I will have the state telling me how much and how often I need to pay this women, not based on how much it actually costs to raise a child but by how much I make? Huh? This seems like a bad dream or a bad joke but it's not, it happens every day in America and millions upon millions of tax dollars are spent on jailing beat dead dads whose only crime was being duped by a mentally defective girl who thought it would fix all there problems.

Debtors prison is alive and well and it comes in the form of contempt of court for child support and alimony. Don't get me wrong, I take care of my kids, but I don't need my government telling me how much of a percentage basis it takes to do so.

I make 36k dollars a year and I pay a percentage on that but if I made 20 million a year Id pay the same percentage and guess what....... Doesn't cost that much to raise a kid........

edit on 6-4-2011 by Helious because: (no reason given)

Wow just wow.
OK first of all, I never believe men and what they say when it comes to sex. They will tell you they shoot Jesus Juice so they don't get women pregnant.
Now with that said. You are supposedly an adult right? Well it is time to be one.
1) rule of life: The only control you have over anything in a situation is YOURSELF! Do you have any idea how many woman are out there that were duped into getting pregnant because men tell them stupid things like you can't get pregnant the first time? And whose fault is it when they get pregnant?
2) rule of life: Don't move in and live with anyone until you are married. It's just the smart thing to do. If you want a roommate stop slicking up trying to sleep with everyone and get a male roommate to share expenses.
3) Until you are married keep the condom on. If you don't want children get a vacetomy. If you are unsure, get a sperm bank account and then the vacetomy.

Now for your problems to date:
File for custody of the children based on the mental instability of the mother(s). Once you get custody, they have to pay you child support.
Can't wait to hear you scream "But I pay more than they do a month and I have custody.
Oh and try to cut corners and see where you end up: Child Protective Services.
See you on the grown up side.
Cheers!

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom

Originally posted by Advantage

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom
reply to post by Advantage

 

I would guess the same advice would apply to women seeking abortions.

Yes it would ....obviously. Personal responsibility is a good thing. However, this thread title was misleading and NOT about abortion.. maybe read the posts.

edit on 7-4-2011 by Advantage because: left out a sentence

Of course I read the posts. I wasn't trying to be snarky or anything. It just seemed to me that the OP was trying to say if women have the option of terminating their motherhood, shouldn't fathers have a similar option? I believe they should, legally speaking of course. Like yourself, I think people would be better off just taking responsibility for their own actions rather than relying on the government.

That being said, I don't think anyone has to worry that any "father's rights" legislation will be passed. States make too much money from the current child support system, and the military always needs a steady stream of cannon fodder from lower income broken homes.

You are right, nothing like the man can tell the woman to get an abortion will ever pass legislation. That's like a woman going to court to stop the man from having other children by forced vacetomy. Won't happen.
But FATHERS DO HAVE RIGHTS! Stop listening to the people on the street and go to a lawyer. I have helped 2 nephews and an ex boyfriend and they all have custody of their kids.
They still call and cuss about the headaches though. LOL

Men are down right silly. Whawhawha, she wants to keep the baby and I don't. Well, simple enough sign over your rights and you wont have to deal with a child. She has the right to say she wants the baby and so do you. Why should a woman give up the child, you the man give up the rights to the child, so the next good man can adopt that child and that child can have a Dad.

Well, I guess every person does't matter if they are male or female, should have the right to chose. Hard to see this work in practice though. (force abortion?)
another solution would be, anal....

Originally posted by Sabel
Well, I guess every person does't matter if they are male or female, should have the right to chose.

They do. A man can chose not to have kids. He just has to make the decision before a woman gets pregnant. A woman, who carries and bears the child can make her decision after she gets pregnant.

(FWIW, I would support the "male abortion", where, the man can opt out of financial responsibility during the first trimester.) It would make the women a lot more careful.

you've been living with this girl for 2 years, that you claim has a mental condition.....
can I ask, when did you figure out that this girl had a mental condition, I mean if she is as mental as you seem to implicate, well, you'd think that you would have noticed long before you created a baby with her??

or did she go mental after you found out she was pregnant and decided that you didn't want to support the kid??

or, is she just not mental and a good part of the story is made up??

is it possible, just maybe, that you two really dug each other, and well, just lacked foresight, and the unthinkable happened? and then well, things fell apart....partly because you didn't want the responsibility.....and that now, you want to believe that she is mental...
or maybe possibly, she went mental, because of the hormonal changes...
ya know, in some women, the hormones can cause them to be just a tad on the nutty side, right??

but, anyways....
you cohabitated with some you say has mental problem for two years....
you should have noticed those mental problems long before any baby was conceived, but for some reason, still decided to create a baby.....

according to your own words, she has an
excuse, she's nuts....
so, what is yours?? you believed the fruitcake??

I feel for you and completely understand where you are coming from. I am currently paying child support (or supposed to anyway) for a child that is not mine. Biologically impossible according to DNA. The court does not care as all they claim to care about is "the best interest of the child", mind you that I never played dad to this girl, never was there, haven't even been in any of the 18 birthdays of this child.

The court is a sham and you should really look into the laws of your state as they are changing little by little.

FL Law To Help Victims Of Paternity Fraud!

You also must learn that about 30% of fathers obligated to pay child support are doing so for children that are not theirs biologically.

1.6 Million Fathers Paying Child Support For Children That Are Not Theirs!

If I was in your position, I would not sign anything, no birth certificate, no affidavits etc UNTIL the DNA test came back saying that without the shadow of a doubt, the child is mine.

If she lied to you about the pill, she could also be lying to you about paternity. That my friend is called Paternity Fraud.

Last but not least, I leave you with a video of a non-biological father, about to go to jail for a child that is proven in court not to be his. Yet, the statute obligates the poor sap to either pay or go to jail while the mother (fraudster) & biological father enjoy the fruits of their fraud.



Here is the CNN article about the video above

Pray that you are not the bio dad and can contest it within the deadlines and you are home free!!

Originally posted by dawnstar
you've been living with this girl for 2 years, that you claim has a mental condition.....
can I ask, when did you figure out that this girl had a mental condition, I mean if she is as mental as you seem to implicate, well, you'd think that you would have noticed long before you created a baby with her??

or did she go mental after you found out she was pregnant and decided that you didn't want to support the kid??

or, is she just not mental and a good part of the story is made up??

is it possible, just maybe, that you two really dug each other, and well, just lacked foresight, and the unthinkable happened? and then well, things fell apart....partly because you didn't want the responsibility.....and that now, you want to believe that she is mental...
or maybe possibly, she went mental, because of the hormonal changes...
ya know, in some women, the hormones can cause them to be just a tad on the nutty side, right??

but, anyways....
you cohabitated with some you say has mental problem for two years....
you should have noticed those mental problems long before any baby was conceived, but for some reason, still decided to create a baby.....

according to your own words, she has an
excuse, she's nuts....
so, what is yours?? you believed the fruitcake??

No, I found out after... Way after, she was hiding the medication from me and one day we had a serious fight and she decided to stop taking it. From that point on, it was one delusional decision after another, I chalked it up to her period and slight depression and NEVER knew the true situation until after.

Mine is not by any means an isolated case, this happens every day across America, it goes hand in hand with domestic violence false arrests and men being driven into indentured servitude because the system DOES NOT work.

Too everyone else that has responded, there are just too many to reply too I want to state one thing, that one thing is the base and the truth of my argument.

Understanding this simple fact will set you free and realize what type of freedom we have because if you side with moral majority over our constitution, you are in fact, a socialist.

You can not claim to have an exclusive right over your body, when somebody else is 50% responsible for the situation at hand. You can not say, it does not matter what the father wants because it is my body and then say, well, he is the father and I want child support.

If the father has no say weather the child ever lives or dies, if the father has no say in anything, the father can not be liable for anything the mother chooses to do with her body.

When a women denies the state and the father of any choice in her body, that choice becomes her responsibility outright and her's alone. You can not have the state involved only when it becomes convenient to do so, that is the definition of abuse of power.