Science is what's holding us back, not progressing us!

I'll start off with a story I heard, I'll do my best to get it right:

Millions of years ago, people were totally different than they are now. We were more advanced, in a different manner. Some would describe us as being magical, for we could do all types of mystic things. We could control the weather, we could control even the Earth. We could build such wonders as the pyramids. We could even fly and teleport.

One day, a intruder came along and decided to bring our empire to an end. Humans were too powerful to defeat in a battle, but this intruder had a more sinister plan. He was a master of words. He knew just the right phrase to use to cause humans to fall from grace.

He began asking people to explain, not show, but explain, "How" they're able to do what they do. How were we able to teleport over great distances. How were we able to levitate giant rocks. How could we cause it to rain whenever we need.

At first the peoples ignored him and thought he was crazy. The intruder/stranger was laughed at even. Eventually some of the people began to ponder the question. 'Well...how am I able to levitate rocks?", "How can I fly...what enables me to do this?"

For this stranger showed the people that he couldn't do the things we could. Not without help, not without technology. He could explain in intricate detail exactly how he could achieve flight or move heavy objects. He had what we would now call "science" to back his feats up. The humans however, did not have science. They had no idea how they achieved their feats, they simply did it.

Slowly, the question began to spread. More and more people became infected with the challenge. Their faith began to falter, their belief in themselves lessened. The strangers technology, which had the evidence to back it up, was more concrete. He could actually explain why or how he does something.

We began to lose our abilities and to place our faith in the strangers technology. There came a time when the memories of the things we were previously able to do were ridiculed as lies when spoken of.
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I make this thread for the members of this site who pop into every thread concerning aliens or ufo's or cryptozoology and the first thing they request is "EVIDENCE". I haven't been a member as long as some others so the names aren't embedded in my memory or I would up the names. I refer to them as the "THERE'SNOTHINGTOSEEHERE,MOVEALONG" people.

They have a explanation for EVERYTHING. The crazy part is that their scientific or logical explanations, often times are sillier or more prepostirous than the person saying they saw a ufo. In the one thread where the subject is alien implants, the TNTSHMA people actually suggested...that the person was struck by a small meteor!!! On top of that, the person didn't know this at the time!!!

The TNTSHMA people lean heavily upon published science. To them, if a theory is accepted by the scientific community, that's good enough for them. They forget that it's only a theory however. EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING we think we know, is only a theory. In actuality we know absolutely NOTHING! All we have are people with their nose so far up their own arse they smell their own breath, called scientists, who are attempting to piece together theories with out all the information.

This isn't an all out attack upon science, I think they are trying. The problem is, they don't have enough pieces of the puzzle. They haven't even factored in a very important equation, spirit or energy, whatever you desire to call it. The reason being, they haven't been able to observe this in a lab or duplicate it. So to them it doesn't exist. The equation they are using is X x y = z, when it should be W+X x Y = Z.

It's the reason the scientific community has to recant and eat its own words so often. It's the reason we haven't really, in the grand scheme, achieved anything. Well, I won't say we haven't achieved anything, I'll re-word it and say we have some janky results. We have a house that has been built by someone who isn't a trained architect and carpenter. Yeah, it's a house, but someone truly trained in the art is laughing at us.

So yeah, we have science and are doing things, but those with the proper equation are laughing at us.

It would be fine if the scientific community were then humble and were open to other theories before ridiculing them. There's another thread concerning the moon being artificial...low and behold, the TNTSHMA people flew in and ridiculed many of the ideas as if THEY'VE ACTUALLY BEEN TO THE MOON THEMSELVES!!! They ridicule the idea that the moon is hollow because of the celestial collision theory....AS IF they've duplicated the process in a lab!

The scientific community ostracize and discount many people who propose theories and give explanations for various occurences. Science will tell you, "You didn't see a bigfoot, what you saw was a bear on its hind legs." Ummm...but what I saw ran off on its hindlegs. I didn't know bears could run on their hindlegs. "Well, if it wasn't a bear what was it then...show me proof!" "How am I supposed to provide you proof of what I saw...can you download my eyeballs?" Well it didn't happen then...have a good day and watch out for bears.

The ufo incident in Phoenix where the claim is that people saw flares in a formation all.....you know what, i'm not going into a lot of the incidents because the explanations are TOO INSULTING.

Until we can shake the vice-grip of science and the requirements, we will continue to be fish in a tank who whisper amongst themselves that there's something seen but can't be explained at the end of the world.

Millions of years ago Homo sapiens sapiens weren't around.

Without science you wouldn't be typing on this message board.

The rest, as it seems more than obvious to me, is based on a belief and not facts. I could make up any story I want and spread the word as truth, however it wouldn't change the facts.

I wish more people understood what science actually was....

'Science and the requirements' are what makes it work, and separates the reality from pseudoscience.

All i can say is: FAIL! ...

I will tell you what is keeping us from progress but in another topic because its too damned long.

TNTSHMA:

The people who Deny Ignorance rather than applause it, just thank god theres people like them on this site otherwise stupidity would run riot in the streets and ATS would have no real merit as a conspiricy site

Reading is what is holding me back from this thread....Sorry

nice post



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Science is not what is "holding us back."

Refusing to allocate funding to the applied sciences in favor of giving money to lobbyists, politicians, special interests are holding us back.

Refusing to look at history and learn from it rather than repeating it is holding us back.

Believing that some omnipotent being is going to save us all instead of getting to work saving ourselves is
holding us back.

Spending countless hours watching "American Idol" and "Jersey Shore" instead of reading Socrates or even National Geographic are holding us back.

Science is our only hope, because faith, love, and charity aren't getting the job done.

I know what you are trying to say. People treat science much as others treat religion. A system of beliefs sanctioned by a body of individuals purported to have more knowledge than the rest of us. Many do have more knowledge than me on a wide variety of issues. Their flaw, like the church of old, is to disregard on sight any idea counter to the approved dogma.

For example, most consider the idea that ghosts, demons, or other beings inhabiting the ether as ludicrous. Could be, or it could be science has not yet discovered tools for reading the energy exhibited by these entities. What if I told someone a couple hundred years ago that a dead tree over there had millions of microscopic creatures eating it, but you cannot see any of them. They would laugh, and possibly burn me.

My point is just because current science does not support an idea or theory does not make it false. It only means that science cannot at this point verify it. For anyone to rest on science as an infallible dogma that is the only measure of truth are doomed to a limited world view.

reply to post by stephinrazin


Exactly!

Originally posted by seenitall
Millions of years ago Homo sapiens sapiens weren't around.

Without science you wouldn't be typing on this message board.

The rest, as it seems more than obvious to me, is based on a belief and not facts. I could make up any story I want and spread the word as truth, however it wouldn't change the facts.

I wish more people understood what science actually was....

'Science and the requirements' are what makes it work, and separates the reality from pseudoscience.

edit on 6-4-2011 by seenitall because: (no reason given)

How do you know humans weren't around millions of years ago?

Without science I may not be typing on this computer, instead I may be enjoying telepathy with people. However, because science can't explain telepathy, it must not exist and thus we no longer have it.

Why should it be called pseudoscience instead of undiscovered science?

Originally posted by AlexIR
All i can say is: FAIL! ...

I will tell you what is keeping us from progress but in another topic because its too damned long.

Hello, TNTSHMA person!

Originally posted by TedHodgson
TNTSHMA:

The people who Deny Ignorance rather than applause it, just thank god theres people like them on this site otherwise stupidity would run riot in the streets and ATS would have no real merit as a conspiricy site

My question is who do we know something is ignorance, since in reality, we know very little?

Originally posted by Dreine
Science is not what is "holding us back."

Refusing to allocate funding to the applied sciences in favor of giving money to lobbyists, politicians, special interests are holding us back.

Refusing to look at history and learn from it rather than repeating it is holding us back.

Believing that some omnipotent being is going to save us all instead of getting to work saving ourselves is
holding us back.

Spending countless hours watching "American Idol" and "Jersey Shore" instead of reading Socrates or even National Geographic are holding us back.

Science is our only hope, because faith, love, and charity aren't getting the job done.

edit on 6-4-2011 by Dreine because: (no reason given)

What you state actually bears weight. I would be in favor of spending the tremendous military budget on science.

Before we can learn from history, we need actual accounts of history. Not history that has been edited or plain fabricated. This leads into the omnipotent being statement...having our history distorted is what makes us believe in such a being. When WE ARE the omnipotent being at essence.

Science with the proper equation is our hope...

I have a feeling that you've just opened up a can of worms with this thread. However, in a sense I somewhat agree with what you are saying. Yet...that's just the way it is, and until we have all the answers, so shall it remain.

Flat Earth, the geocentric model, human flight being impossible, etc...were all accepted as fact at one point in time, and those that were trying to show otherwise were confined to the realm of fringe science etc... or even worse. See the Galileo affair for example.

I read the threads you mentioned, and even though I may not agree with some of what was posted, it's not my place to openly disagree in a condescending way or call them out, as everyone is entitled to their own opinion on whatever is presented...and the fact that all opinions are normally embraced on this site is what makes it great.

I mean seriously, you cannot argue speculation with speculation. That'll get you nowhere.

As far as ATS is concerned, and this is obviously just my opinion, the term "Deny Ignorance" is thrown around like some badge when trying to debunk or prove something. I mean sure, there are times when people become a little over the top in their postings or threads, where FACTS can easily DISPROVE something, i.e. the moon has disappeared. But what really grinds my gears is when a topic is presented for discussion and people, from the most ardent believers to the most staunch skeptics, come in lambasting the O.P. with their superior sense of knowledge. I swear some people have their own personal crusade against some things here, whether it's for cool points or what, I don’t know.

Back on topic though, until humanity wises up, and we put our petty problems and indifferences aside, we'll be on the same path we've been on forever, if not worse.

Like as been said before, history is written and passed on by those who won.
And every human being, when they learn about something, become biased in some fashion towards it.

Our history is fragmented greatly up until the middle 17th century, and even then there are numerous accounts of many famous occurences.

But back to the main point, I firmly believe that mankind is doomed unless we start setting the groundwork and doing the hard labor of preparing for a future vastly different than the existence we enjoy today. The applied sciences give us the chance to evolve, figuratively speaking, to a more stable future for ourselves and our predecessors.

I also believe those who would discount something outright because science has yet to discover or quantify it are blinding themselves to some rather amazing possibilities. Until science can absolutely debunk something with hard numbers and evidence, any theory, no matter how outlandish, cannot be ruled out.

Like dark matter, for instance.

reply to post by stephinrazin

I know what you are trying to say. People treat science much as others treat religion. A system of beliefs sanctioned by a body of individuals purported to have more knowledge than the rest of us. Many do have more knowledge than me on a wide variety of issues. Their flaw, like the church of old, is to disregard on sight any idea counter to the approved dogma.

People who hold this belief are mistaken about the way science works. It is not a church that issues statements of dogma ex cathedra; it is more like a group of rabbis arguing over the talmud. Evidence is presented and reviewed by peers who question the validity of the data and its interpretation. When new information comes along or a better theory is suggested, the consensus will change.

For example, most consider the idea that ghosts, demons, or other beings inhabiting the ether as ludicrous. Could be, or it could be science has not yet discovered tools for reading the energy exhibited by these entities. What if I told someone a couple hundred years ago that a dead tree over there had millions of microscopic creatures eating it, but you cannot see any of them. They would laugh, and possibly burn me.

Scientists apply the scientific method to all manner of phenomena. Usually, this results in traditional folk beliefs like ghosts and goblins failing the test of evidence, Most psychic and spiritual phenomena have more to do with human psychology and cognition than they do with some mysterious external "energy." Nevertheless, no scientist would ever claim that our understanding of the universe is complete.

My point is just because current science does not support an idea or theory does not make it false. It only means that science cannot at this point verify it. For anyone to rest on science as an infallible dogma that is the only measure of truth are doomed to a limited world view.

Science is not a dogma, it is a methodology. If it is applied to a theory and the theory fails, it can honestly be said to be false. If the theory or belief lies in a realm where it is impossible to apply the scientific method, science has nothing to say about it. There is no apparatus that can determine whether Dostoevskii is a more profound author than Dickens, or whether chocolate is more delicious than vanilla. Scientists, as human beings, debate the merits of musicians, sports teams, beers without any need to invoke "science." Their lives are in no way impoverished. Those who reject science, however, run the danger of being defrauded by people who prey upon the gullible.

reply to post by DZAG Wright

Very well put, I'm assuming you are talking about Lemuria and lemurians. The flood covered everything there is to cover.

When the balance of power with regards to humanities direction is beholden in the offices of corporations, and directed by greed manifested unto man. There can be no progression, only regression for humanity as a whole.
Great power denotes great responsibility and should subsequently, logically, ethically and fundamentally be a power that can only be held by those truly righteous and pure of heart and intent for humankind. This is not the case in a system which rewards inhumane malevolent behavior.

reply to post by DZAG Wright


Nice story, do you have evidence to back it up?

Science and scientific inquiry is what keeps people from making up anything they want and espousing it as factual.

I really love people who bitch about science whilst using the tools provided by scientific progress to bash it. You people are just so amazing sometimes!

reply to post by DZAG Wright


Mitochondrial DNA is a good place to start on your first question.

Pseudoscience is non-falsifiable, just like the majority of your post (we could fly and were telepathic in the past to be more specific). This is what separates science from pseudoscience. It is not 'undiscovered science'. The claim that humans are telepathic is falsifiable, and has so far been demonstrated as false.

I'll leave the rest to you.