Christianity - A Religion of Death Part II

reply to post by slowisfast


Let me see if I'm following you.

Jesus died on the cross as payment for the sins of man, to free all man kind from the burden of sin and the fear of judgment but ONLY the people who believe that Jesus died for the sins of all mankind are actually cleansed of their sins by Christ's sacrifice.

The only people cleansed by Christ's sacrifice are those people who believe that Christ died for the sins of the entire world, everyone else is still a sinner and will face judgment.

That is gold medal level mental gymnastics

reply to post by notsofunnyguy


I'll have to preface this by saying that I'm just a dude and in no way am I speaking for God or his reasoning.

I guess first I would ask how long is 3000 years compared to the infinite? Also, when sin entered, it wasn't just into human hearts. The physical world, our planet, was marred as well. Our physical world is as broken as humans are. The Bible speaks of a day when the world will be made new again. And when it is, it will be as it was originally intended.

God wants relationship with us. That's what it's all about. The Bible, Christianity. I guess if He were to run his Jesus360 anti-virus as soon as Adam sinned, it'd be two dudes and a chick hanging out for eternity. The Bible says that he won't reconcile it all until the work is done. The work is humans. He wants us...the same way a father wants to have an awesome relationship with his son/daughters.

reply to post by Shadowflux


Believe me. The burden of sin is never gone. Not as long as we're alive and breathing. I sin all the time. The only thing is, I never use to be aware of much I actually do. How much we all do.

Everyone is a sinner and we'll all continue to be until death.
We'll all face judgement.

Mental gymnastics?
While you might not agree, is it really that hard to understand?

Originally posted by Shadowflux
reply to post by slowisfast

 

Let me see if I'm following you.

Jesus died on the cross as payment for the sins of man, to free all man kind from the burden of sin and the fear of judgment but ONLY the people who believe that Jesus died for the sins of all mankind are actually cleansed of their sins by Christ's sacrifice.

The only people cleansed by Christ's sacrifice are those people who believe that Christ died for the sins of the entire world, everyone else is still a sinner and will face judgment.

That is gold medal level mental gymnastics

You are ready know the answers to your own questions. You are well versed in 'poking the stick at the dog on a leash'. It will be enlightening to see what your faith in science will be. Scientology perhaps?

Originally posted by Shadowflux

Far from being a peaceful symbol of love and life, the cross, this symbol of death and human sacrifice, has been the sign by which the Christian Church has spread it’s suffering and destruction for thousands of years. One must truly wonder why a religion that claims to be so open and loving has, as it’s very symbol, a method of brutal execution. The Christian Church claims to worship the one true God, the creator of all life, yet it’s followers kneel down and pray to a symbol of death and human sacrifice. The church teaches that it’s followers will have eternal life yet almost every aspect of this religion glorifies the death and suffering of it’s originator, it’s followers and those “sinners” who refuse to follow it’s sign.

It's only your opinion that it's a symbol of death and human sacrifice and opinions are a dime a dozen around here.Lol

I googled your signature to try and gain some insight on what it is you believe exactly..... it led back to ATS and I'm better clued in, to say the least.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit proves your idea, that christianity is a religion of death, so wrong. It is the tangible Spirit of God, that let's the believer know for a fact, Jesus is exactly who he claimed to be - the Messiah. When all the things he spoke of start coming to fruition in their being (living water & fire) it ends up culminating into the biggest event in their earthly life . That joy cannot be snatched from them and that is what I see you are trying to do.

Every last one of us are headed to the abode of light. Jesus claims he is that light and thousands that have died and came back testify 'It's him!"Lol

reply to post by jrstock


I am definitely not a scientologist, if I was going to follow a science fiction author I'd much sooner choose Frank Herbert or Phillip K. Dick

I find it rather surprising that so many people insist that I must be following some other, pre-fabricated belief system and never consider that I follow my own system of beliefs. I think it's quite telling, to be honest.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


The Latin portion of my signature comes from an old occult text and roughly translates to "Dogs will always bark at strangers". It means that people will generally react negatively to new ideas and information because it is their nature.

The second portion is simply something I made up a while ago, it refers to people that condemn me and the things I say. It refers to the fact that, while they may try to scare me, while they will continue to speak out against me, their arguments have no substance and their accusations carry no weight. It is intended to emulate the style of speech found in the Bible.

The "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" that you speak of was not written of in the Gospels but comes from the Book of Acts which was written after 60 AD, at the earliest, which is about 30 years after the death of Christ. Acts is widely believed to have been written by a companion of Paul, a man who had never met Jesus, unless, of course, you believe that Jesus appeared to him while no one else was around.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is characterized by, among other things, the ability to speak in foreign languages unknown to the speaker yet understood by those to whom the Christian is preaching. This is not the same as the incoherent babbling practiced by certain sects of Christianity and titled "Speaking in Tongues". If you truly believe you have received this "Baptism of the Holy Spirit", as described in Acts, then I would love to hear you recount your experiences with speaking in foreign languages and so forth.

Originally posted by Shadowflux

Originally posted by Akragon
Stirrin the pot eh...

Just spreading the truth and trying to opening people's eyes

Oh please.
Be honest. You want attention, and that's it.
Vicky

Originally posted by Shadowflux


Acts is widely believed to have been written by a companion of Paul, a man who had never met Jesus, unless, of course, you believe that Jesus appeared to him while no one else was around.

Obviously, you don't know your Bible! Jesus appeared to Paul and there were plenty of other people around.

reply to post by Vicky32



You're right, there were others traveling with Paul to Damascus, however:

Acts, Chapter 9:
[7] And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man..

Everyone takes Paul's word for the fact that he saw Jesus, my argument remains the same.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
reply to post by jrstock

 

I am definitely not a scientologist, if I was going to follow a science fiction author I'd much sooner choose Frank Herbert or Phillip K. Dick

I find it rather surprising that so many people insist that I must be following some other, pre-fabricated belief system and never consider that I follow my own system of beliefs. I think it's quite telling, to be honest.

Soooooo, do you have a thing for Christians or are Jew's, Islamic, ect in the mix too? Be forthwith now.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

 

The "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" that you speak of was not written of in the Gospels but comes from the Book of Acts which was written after 60 AD, at the earliest, which is about 30 years after the death of Christ. Acts is widely believed to have been written by a companion of Paul, a man who had never met Jesus, unless, of course, you believe that Jesus appeared to him while no one else was around.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is characterized by, among other things, the ability to speak in foreign languages unknown to the speaker yet understood by those to whom the Christian is preaching. This is not the same as the incoherent babbling practiced by certain sects of Christianity and titled "Speaking in Tongues". If you truly believe you have received this "Baptism of the Holy Spirit", as described in Acts, then I would love to hear you recount your experiences with speaking in foreign languages and so forth.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit IS written in the gospels, John specifically. Right before Jesus headed to Gethsamane he gave his followers a little discourse on it. In fact, he likens it to a baby being born. Do you know why? Because it is the mystery of 'Christ in you' and all that entails. Surely you understand, that if Jesus is who he claims, then there is an entire process of how he comes to live inside the disciple. Have I experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit? I have. And I don't go around telling people they are bad and going to burn in hell. I proclaim all people can come into such intimate knowledge through repentance and by simply following the commands Jesus spoke.

I didn't experience it quite the way they did in Acts. That's more described as staggering like they were drunk and speaking in foreign languages. Maybe that is what it's like in a mass setting. For myself it was an ongoing process. The day "it" happened I was home alone. I couldn't stand. There was absolutely no way to stand. I went face down. Others have went face down - off the top of my head, Daniel, Paul & John (in Revelation).

As far as tounges, they are for unbelievers, such as in a mass setting. Years ago, I heard a couple little old ladies do it at a funeral. Really freaked all of us out. There really were a lot of unbelievers and sinners lining those pews. I know because I was one of them. Tounges is like the least of all the gifts.

reply to post by jrstock


Well, since Christians, Jews and Muslims all worship the same patron tribal storm god of the bronze age Levant, I suppose you could lump them all together. (Although I sometimes wonder if Muslims worship the same god. Jews and Christians worship Yahweh and Muslims worship Allah, who's name comes from the ancient 'illu, a derivation on the name El, the chief deity of the ancient Levant)

The main subject of this particular series of articles, however, happens to be Christians.

Regardless, if I spoke about Jews I'd be called an anti-Semite and if I spoke about Muslims I'd probably be murdered since I live in NYC and there are many Muslims around.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
reply to post by Vicky32

 

You're right, there were others traveling with Paul to Damascus, however:

Acts, Chapter 9:
[7] And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man..

Everyone takes Paul's word for the fact that he saw Jesus, my argument remains the same.

By you, hearing is meaningless? I trust my sense of hearing far more than I trust my sight. (I'm 100% auditory on the VARK scale, and while you may be highly visual (most males are) don't assume everyone is like you!
What VARK is

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


While I can't say much about your personal experiences I can say that the Gospel of John was written around 90 AD or later.

This places the Gospel of John at roughly 60 years after the death of Christ and makes it more recent than the Book of Acts and likely past the expected life span of any of Christ's disciples.

reply to post by Vicky32


So if you heard some disembodied voice claiming to be Jesus and commanding you to do as it said you would immediately set to work and wouldn't assume that it was either a trick or, if you are religious, perhaps a demon??

Even Thomas, who apparently knew Jesus while he was alive, wanted proof that he was, indeed, looking at and talking to Jesus.

How easily your allegiance is swayed.

Originally posted by Shadowflux

if I spoke about Muslims I'd probably be murdered since I live in NYC and there are many Muslims around.

Don't you just wish..
You'd be so famous, and wow in your next life you might get to be Tom Cruise or Sam Harris!
You attack Christianity because most people on this American site who are believers at all are some variant of Christian, so you get lots of lovely attention...

reply to post by Vicky32


You know, for someone claiming that I'm writing all of this simply for attention, you certainly are giving me a lot.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

 

While I can't say much about your personal experiences I can say that the Gospel of John was written around 90 AD or later.

This places the Gospel of John at roughly 60 years after the death of Christ and makes it more recent than the Book of Acts and likely past the expected life span of any of Christ's disciples.

Er, no. Recent scholarship gives a much earlier date for John.

reply to post by Vicky32


Unless this is what you're talking about:

The noncanonical Dead Sea Scrolls suggest an early Jewish origin, parallels and similarities to the Essene Scroll, and Rule of the Community.[47] Many phrases are duplicated in the Gospel of John and the Dead Sea Scrolls. These are sufficiently numerous to challenge the theory that the Gospel of John was the last to be written among the four Gospels[48] and that it shows marked non-Jewish influence.[49]

You should really back up your statements with some sort of reference, unless, like the followers of Paul, you expected me to take it "as a matter of faith".