Taiwan's independence, your opinion

Since the situation between China and Taiwan is escalating real fast.I would like to know your opinion about this question:

----Should China invade Taiwan or not? Please give reason. ----

I would prefer to hear someone with a supporting view of the war since there are a lot of reasons not to, but i welcome both. This is a democracy, everyone has a say in it. Pro or con? give me your opinion.

[edit on 24-7-2004 by jazzmaster]

Remove the ever present threat of total destruction from the people of Taiwan. Then see what the population wants. If the population wants Independance, the US should fully support this.

[edit on 24-7-2004 by FredT]

I say keep the status quo. All countries involved are not ready to address the outcome, whatever it may be, right now. The world has more on it's plate. Sorry Taiwan, you have it pretty good right now, hold tight a little longer (20, 50, 100 years?). Don't ruin what you want on a gamble that may not pay off, and would be damaging for everyone.

EDIT: The US created this problem, Nixon was smart enough to try to fix our mistakes. Maybe we were wrong about this thing? Maybe it's time to find a graceful way out?

[edit on 24-7-2004 by curme]

Originally posted by jazzmaster
Should China invade Taiwan or not? Please give reason.

No.
I point to Tibet for a recent example of Chinese invasion and occupation and a reason for why it would be wrong.
If Taiwan want to be subject to the political and social structure of China, then I'm sure they would ask for it.

Will they force the Taiwanese children to shoot their parents like they did the Tibetan children?

[edit on 24-7-2004 by shanti23]

If Taiwan declare independence from China,sure i support our gov to attack taiwan.

Gaining control of the island will open a door to us to the Pacific Ocean

Will they force the Taiwanese children to shoot their parents like they did the Tibetan children?

u have creditable sources on this?

Originally posted by omkao
If Taiwan declare independence from China,sure i support our gov to attack taiwan.

Gaining control of the island will open a door to us to the Pacific Ocean

Will they force the Taiwanese children to shoot their parents like they did the Tibetan children?

u have creditable sources on this?

The most the US could currently handle on there big plate would be air power only, we can't spare any troups to this.

Taiwan should go ahead and declare its independence now.

Even though Taiwan is small compared to China, a direct invasion would only leave alot of people dead on both sides (mostly pinko chinese), and the effort itself could risk depleting their military hardware as well as manpower to the point where it could take years for them to recover. Bullies like to mess with people who don't hit back or hit back hard. Taiwan will most assuredly hit them back very hard (especially on the mainland) if and when the $&!% hits the fan. For all of the PRC leaderships hostile posturing, I'm sure they are very aware of this fact.

Being the hard line commies that they are, their natural paranoia of internal political and religious dissidents, as well as foreign influence and their distrust with the NK, Japan, and Russians (they have little skirmishes along the border every now and then I hear), I doubt they would use a direct heads on military approach with Taiwan if they thought there was a possibility the attempt could leave them militarily and economically vulnerable in the end.

With the current shafting the citizens of Hong Kong are receiving, what sane freedom loving person would want to willingly reunify with something as detestable as the PRC? With the exception of liberals, I doubt anyone would choose to.

The sooner they declare their independence, the better. By the time China really is in a position to safely take Taiwan by force (more than likely years or decades), Taiwan will have already established itself amongst the international community long before then through strong diplomatic and economic ties, and this will make a military solution infinitely more difficult if not impossible for the PRC (with our help, seeing how no one else is stepping up as usual).

Then again, I could be overestimating the PRC leaderships intelligence. Seeing how they keep brainwashing their people into believing that all of the onesided economic cooperation we give them is because we fear their great Red prowess B.S., their heads have swollen quite large as of late. They may actually believe they can take it by force, not truely rationalizing nor caring about the consequences of doing so.

If it ever came down to war, I doubt our involvement would go beyond massive airsupport, intel, recon, and lots of cruise missles. Taiwan has more than likely been preparing for an amphibious assault for decades, and I doubt that their well prepared ground forces would have too much trouble dealing with the few pinkos that actually make it alive to taint their shores with their disgusting presence.

If that screws up our economic ties with China, all the better. With the exception of desperately needed food and some other tall order items they can't make themselves (airplanes, complex computers, construction equipment, as well as heavy machinery that is always intended to be used for peaceful purposes ), China will not open its markets to most goods that are manufactured outside its borders. If an American company wants to sell its goods in their markets (Pepsi, cars, toys, etc..), they have to be willing to manufacture them solely over there paying the government to utilize its state controlled slave labor.

Having to sever ties with those scumbags over those circumstances would hurt our economy until we find alterior sources for the manufactured goods we used to get from them, but the effects would be exponentionally greater and much more longterm to them. And finding alterior sources for most of the junk they produce for us will not take long. If people have money and a large demand for something, somebody will fill it and fill it quickly (one of the wonderful things about capitalism).

And when some of our corporations get tossed flat on their a$$e$ broke in the event of China starting a war, good. Thats what they deserve for getting us so economically involved with the commies to begin with.

P.S. - On a side note, I've never heard any discussion on the possibility that Taiwan could have some nuclear weapons of their own. It would'nt be difficult with their industrial capabilities. Just a thought.


[edit on 25-7-2004 by Crazyhorse]

Originally posted by omkao

Originally posted by Shanti23
Will they force the Taiwanese children to shoot their parents like they did the Tibetan children?

u have creditable sources on this?

Read: My Land and My People, the autobiography of His Holiness the Dalai Lama of Tibet published in 1962.

www.amazon.com...

Originally by His Holiness the Dalai Lama
Tens of thousands of our people have been killed, not only in military actions, but individually and deliberately. They have been killed without trial.…Fundamentally they have been killed because they would not renounce their religion. They have not only been shot, but beaten to death, crucified, burned alive, drowned, vivisected, starved, strangled, hanged, scalded, buried alive, disemboweled and beheaded. These killings have been done in public. Men and women have been killed while their own families were forced to watch, and small children have even been forced to shoot their parents.

I believe His Holiness the Dalai Lama to be a credible source and so do many other people.
More so than the PRC, who still stand in the way of a draft resolution on the human rights situation in China.

Check this out for further credible sources of ongoing human rights abuses in Tibet:

www.tchrd.org...

Back to the thread. . .
NO!

[edit on 25-7-2004 by shanti23]

Here is another link for you

www.hrw.org...

Originally posted by curme
I say keep the status quo. All countries involved are not ready to address the outcome, whatever it may be, right now. The world has more on it's plate. Sorry Taiwan, you have it pretty good right now, hold tight a little longer (20, 50, 100 years?). Don't ruin what you want on a gamble that may not pay off, and would be damaging for everyone.

EDIT: The US created this problem, Nixon was smart enough to try to fix our mistakes. Maybe we were wrong about this thing? Maybe it's time to find a graceful way out?

[edit on 24-7-2004 by curme]

The U.S. did not create this problem, the Chinese revolution did. Would
the U.S. allow Texas or Kansas leave the Union and claim their Independence? Of course not, so why would China give up Taiwan?
I say an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. What is good for one
country should be okay for another, this world would be alot more
peaceful if that were the rule of law.

Originally posted by Crazyhorse
Taiwan should go ahead and declare its independence now.

I do hope Taiwan do so now. China is becoming stronger day by day. If Taiwan do not have a chance now, they will not have it in the future.

P.S. - On a side note, I've never heard any discussion on the possibility that Taiwan could have some nuclear weapons of their own. It would'nt be difficult with their industrial capabilities. Just a thought.

[edit on 25-7-2004 by Crazyhorse]

I do not oppose Taiwan has nukes. In that case, China can rightfully sell nuke and ICBMs to any country want them and has cash. I believe those will include Iran, Lybia, Syria, Saudi, Egypt, Brazil, Agentina? For North Korea and Cuba, we will just donate a few, since they are poor comerade of China.

[edit on 25-7-2004 by zcheng]

I think ANY group of people have the right to independience.

The North was wrong to invade the South when we declared independience and China would be wrong to invade Tiwian.

It is really true that this war would only create economic instability to China, not so much Taiwan, the US and international will help Taiwan gets back on its feet.

With China's infrastructures close to the coast, the risk of being incapicitated by missiles or bombs is real, and significant. China is the factory of the world, so by doing this, it will lead to the decrease of investment from international. Remember, China only survives because it produces goods and export to the world. China has no defense for any of their big cities against missisles and bombs.

Chinese leadership understands this fact very well. That is why they are hesistating to act. They would lose more than they gain and that is fact. Propaganda blankets this fact from the people and they fail to see the real situation. It is not just simply taking Taiwan over, it is the outcome and effects of this potential war has on China's economy. China only wants Taiwans' economy. Yes Chinese officials know this very well, more than the people should know.

Propaganda plays a big part in this invasion. The people of China are only seeing the picture that their government is painting, and that is uniting brothers from two sides and become one, in part of this is true. But they fail to see the effects it has on their economy because the governement does not give them the whole shebang. The Chinese government has other things on the table besides uniting Taiwan, it wants Taiwan for its economy, its workforce resources, its natural resources. They do not want to take Taiwan for its land, that island is filled with over 20 millions people already. But those 20 millions are well educated beyond the educational level of China. That would really helps China's economy. It is the workforce and the economy China is after.

Propaganda failed to point out these facts, but that is not what propaganda is intended to do.

Think of the effects it has on China's economy, it is tremendous either way. They would be lose a lot or gain a lot.

It is a bet China is deciding right now.

See what is "Made in Taiwan" and you can see what influence a war in Taiwan can have in the world markets.

Originally posted by omkao
If Taiwan declare independence from China,sure i support our gov to attack taiwan.

Gaining control of the island will open a door to us to the Pacific Ocean

You are actually expaining why China dare not give up Taiwan.

The main difference between Taiwan and Tibet is that Tawainese actually are Han/Chinese people

They should invade ASAP to have more time to clear the mess

Originally posted by poirot
They should invade ASAP to have more time to clear the mess

Care to expand your comment?

A war would essentialy throw the world economy into a catastrophe that would take years to resolve...

I think it's clear that most countries would prefer this dispute to be solved peacefully, preferably with Taiwan succeding to chinese government.

Regardless what the US government claims, they of all people do not want to have any involvement in a war between China and Taiwan... even if it means withdrawing all political and millitary support.

I think an invasion would be a little harder than most think even without USA help, if you think invading Iraq was a mess you would LOVE invading Tawain.

We would not even have to interfere just a little up to date weapons and China would have its hands full for years.

BUT....

I think we will wind up leting China invade in return for us invading North Korea. Just a hunch but wait and see....LOL

think logistics...

Iraq is miles from the US... Taiwan is just next door to china

It's not quite the challenge the US faced with hostile surrounding countries and huge distances to contend with.

China quite happily points over 600 miles at Tawian... each with accuracy to within 25 meters which it can use to overwhelm any Taiwanese defenses before even loading the first troop onto a transport.