Are We (humans) really the Greys

Originally posted by kode

Originally posted by Biggie
Humans evolving into become taller, stronger, and more intelligent may be more a product of modern technology then evolution. That is, people are taller and stronger because of better nutrition and health care, and more intelligent because of increased access to information

But couldn�t that be classed as evolution or does it have to be a biological?

Evolution is a product of both biological and environmental factors. As environment changes, species acquire new traits in order to survive the changes, through adaptations. These new traits are passed through generations over a long period which is evolution. Mutations also play a part in evolution. This is specialization.

Contrary to that, in our case, today, WE are changing our own environment to make it suit our needs. Now, this is generalization.

We may be becoming smarter, healthier, and technologically more advanced, however, this could prove harmful to us and to other organisms. Look at extinction rates of the different organisms due to human interferences in their natural habitats. Look at the destruction of the ozone layer.

Originally posted by brykc14

Originally posted by kode
Someone once told me that humans will not evolve beyond what we are today, but i cant see that, as we evolved from the past it makes sense that we will keep evolving

Exactly. How can Someone say that we have stopped evolving. That is the whole point, evolving is never ending. If something has evolved once it will do it again. And one day us humans will be something else. It may not be the Greys, but we will evolve into something.

You are right that evolution does not stop.
However it depends on your definition of evolution. If you define evoulution as species naturally adapting to new environments and due to mutations over a long period than you are wrong, we have actually stopped evolving like that!

Now we are controlling our own environment as I said earlier. We may become more generalized into some higher intelligence due to our advancing technology, but it wouldn't be the same evolutionary process through which we have evolved in the past (from apes and monkeys).



[edit on 7/25/2004 by jp1111]

we are a bad experiment and survivors of the martian drought

If humans would come back from the future, they would probably be a lot smarter than exposing themselves like the greys do. I think they are hopeless creatures with high technological background. What do they want? Perhaps, they are preparing for a long term relationship with us.

Originally posted by jp1111
You are right that evolution does not stop.
However it depends on your definition of evolution. If you define evoulution as species naturally adapting to new environments and due to mutations over a long period than you are wrong, we have actually stopped evolving like that!

So youre say that evolution has nothing to do with environment changes?

I think that is the number one reason of something evolving. Look at whales. The first species of whales walked on land. But do to the change in their environment they no longer have legs.

Originally posted by brykc14

Originally posted by jp1111
You are right that evolution does not stop.
However it depends on your definition of evolution. If you define evoulution as species naturally adapting to new environments and due to mutations over a long period than you are wrong, we have actually stopped evolving like that!

So youre say that evolution has nothing to do with environment changes?

I think that is the number one reason of something evolving. Look at whales. The first species of whales walked on land. But do to the change in their environment they no longer have legs.

No, I never said that evolution has nothing to do with environment changes. Actually I said that evolution is a product of both biological and environmental factors. Please reread my post!

Well, my whole point was that we won't be evolving from humans to something else like the apes and monkeys evolved into bipedal humans. The reason for that is, as stated in my previous post, in recent centuries, we are changing our environment to make it suit our needs and not let the environment change us!

In short,
I totally agree that evolution is caused by mostly changes in environment, but what about when WE change the environment? Is it still called evolution? I read somewhere that the latter is called generalization and not evolution.

I hope you get my point.

[edit on 7/26/2004 by jp1111]

Sorry I misread the post.

I totally agree that evolution is caused by mostly changes in environment, but what about when WE change the environment? Is it still called evolution? I read somewhere that the latter is called generalization and not evolution.

That is a great point. About us changing the environment. Never thought about that.

With all the Global Warming we have caused. I cant help but think, we may be dooming ourselves in more ways than one. People worry about the effects Global Warming will have on the Planet, but what about the effect it will have on evolution its self. For not only us (humans) but all species.

The whole "aliens are from the future" thing is a great theory. I went with that one for a while. It's such a mind bender.

I don't know if any of you believe in channeling messages from beings in higher dimensions, but here's a good thing to read about the Greys. It's more of a historical standpoint from a being who knows what's been going on here on earth through our Ancient History.

I'll post a bit of the message with a link to where you can read the rest. I don't know how "legal" this is for the ATS site, but it's a really interesting read--

"...We also acknowledge your choice of experience to travel your own path of evolution, one which we would not interfere with, unless you invited us to do so. The renegade groups have no such intentions, and in some ways act very much as you do on Earth, which is why they have been allowed to make contact with you. There is however, a limit placed upon them as to how far we are prepared to let them go. In spite of everything that has been recorded of their current actions, they will not allowed to go any further. I refer mainly to the Greys and their interest in pursuing their own agenda, which is based upon a need for their own survival. Their contact with your Governments has been allowed, inasmuch that they turned away earlier offers from the Federation of Planets to help you onto your path of evolution. The choice was theirs, and so they reap what they have sown. However, that choice was not a collective one, and did not truly represent the wishes of the majority upon Earth. This has therefore given us the divine authority to intercede on your behalf, and keep the affect upon you under control. Many other Beings, have at different times in your very ancient history viewed the riches of Earth, and decided they wanted them for themselves. But it was not the Plan, and this is where your Galactic Federation have exercised their power and authority to protect you and Mother Earth..." -message through Mike Quinsey

I would have paraphrased, but I cannot word it quite as well as this message was written.

Here's the link:
/69gn6

According to most of the abduction stories, the "Greys" are the ones who are abducting humans and performing the experiments on the humans. Why would they, who are supposedly highly evolved humans from the future, abduct their own kind and perform horrible experiments on us? That part of the theory does not make any sense.

I believe that the alien astronauts that are carved on those famous pyramids in South America are from human aliens that came to Earth thousands of years ago to teach certain people (the Egyptians, the Aztecs, the people at Easter Island) how to build giant edifices that cannot be built otherwise. Like how come, modern engineers today find it i difficult to build pyramids or transport those giant statues at Easter Island and Stone Hinge.

ancient people did not need aliens to build them.they were people like us,not monkeys.

and if we can't do it ,that doesn't prove aliens did it or teached them to!

With all the Global Warming we have caused. I cant help but think, we may be dooming ourselves in more ways than one. People worry about the effects Global Warming will have on the Planet, but what about the effect it will have on evolution its self. For not only us (humans) but all species.

we did not cause global warming,it is a natural cycle,but we are making it worse

[edit on 7-10-2004 by DarkSide]

At some point in the future, the terrestrial environment will no longer be able to sustain human life. This will be sooner than most futurologists predict. Human souls will have to reincarnate on the planets of other star systems. But the life stream will divide into two groups determined by the level of spiritual evolution of individual inhabitants at that time. Greys are the lower level whose mental development was not under the guidance and control of their higher, spiritual oversouls. They suffer from a degnerative disease of the nervous system that has rendered them sterile, causing them to travel back into the past to use human abductees in genetic experiments in a long-term project to cure themselves. But this has not succeeded, and their intervention in our current spacetime worldline has caused our reality to bifurcate into several co-existing alternatives (Everett's parallel worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics), one of which the Greys have discovered leads to the extermination of the human race (and therefore its future descendants - the Greys). Because the Greys came from other worlds that they colonised in the future, some factions (actually different breeds) came under the mind-control and domination of certain other ET species. There are 'good' species of Greys (those still with invidual minds) and 'bad' species (those that cause cattle and human mutilations that possess a group mind or hive mentality). The above-top-secret Majii group is divided into the 'good' and 'bad' guys that support these two rival groups of Greys. The former is working towards repairing the timelines, the other is trying to stop this because they want to have this planet for themselves (or rather for their slave-masters).

Originally posted by IronDogg
How would it explain the reasons behind cattle mutilations? (Just wondering...)

cattle mutilations

Our future evolved-selfs warning us that animal cruelty is wrong and we shouldn't eat Mcdonalds.

Originally posted by mpeake
According to most of the abduction stories, the "Greys" are the ones who are abducting humans and performing the experiments on the humans. Why would they, who are supposedly highly evolved humans from the future, abduct their own kind and perform horrible experiments on us? That part of the theory does not make any sense.

Well we describe the experience as horrible. Doesn't mean the experience is horrible in intention.

Originally posted by mpeake
According to most of the abduction stories, the "Greys" are the ones who are abducting humans and performing the experiments on the humans. Why would they, who are supposedly highly evolved humans from the future, abduct their own kind and perform horrible experiments on us? That part of the theory does not make any sense.

Unless of course they're trying to prevent some future change in huans as a whole, so they need to conduct experiments on us in our more "primitive" state before it happens so they can offer a cure....who knows.
the fact aliens don't seem to have reproductive organs might suggest that maybe they are humans of the future and something happened which changed their physiology/biology? drastically...dunno

Another theory (and I don't 100% adhere to any theory at the moment) is that they are us...in the present! Or rather, a combination of us and other organisms.

Consider this humble speculation from a fairly new member. I've read numerous examples of CIA experiments which eerily mirror a great many modern day abduction scenarios. They involved the use of hallucinations induced by drugs, and the presentation of a false set of circumstances to which the abductee/subject would then respond. Based upon their response, they were told that they chose wisely or poorly. Often they were then told that they were "important" and that they would continue to be important "in the future," and that when the time arose for them to carry out their function (which was invariably said to be of some future import), they "would know." Sound familiar?

Now, keep that in mind during the rest of my humble and akward hypothesis. Nobody knows this for certain either of course, but there's been ample speculation about the hybridization of earthly viral pathogens under the CIA's supervision to create bioweapons. (HIV is the most popular example). Some of that hybridization allegedly involved forcing a virus to jump species by injecting it into specific animals (for example, by artificialy forcing scenarios similar to how SARS and avian influena have become such threats; I'm not saying SARS or bird flu were engineered, but just that they may have taken a process that has been known to occur naturaly, and artificialy sped it up in some instances, including, perhaps, HIV).

There's also been ample speculation that this viral engineering was designed to target specific genetic traits. Now, suppose they needed to create something with genetic features that didn't already exactly exist in any existing life form on the planet, in order to breed such pathogens in some cases. We already think they might have used animals somewhere in the chain of producing human viral pathogens. We can also tell from nature that, atleast for the moment, it's more efficient to inject a living creature with a virus and let things progress, than it is to try to do the gene splicing and wind up with similar results.

Well, if we hypothesize that they had the means to use genetic reproductive material from humans (gleamed during abductions?) or cattle (the mutilations?) to geneticaly engineer tailor made biological organisms that they needed in order to breed their virus in, then whether those genetic conditions existed in some sort of extraterrestrial entities, or whether they simply played around enough with existing DNA and got lucky with some gene splicing, those traits might not be as simple as eye color or hair pattern. They might be far more exotic. They might result in things like the "hybrids" seen during abductions. Or even the "aliens" themselves. Maybe they went too far when they developed the greys, and had to dial the genetic drift back a bit through hybridization with normal human beings. Maybe, if any of this is true, it wasn't even for the purpose of breeding viral pathogens. Maybe it was to breed a large pool of intelligent beings with extra-sensory capabilities. Perhaps it led out of the experiments with ESP and what not. Who knows?

I don't neccesarily believe any of this this. Hell, I don't even know if there's a scientific basis for it. I'm just raising it as a possibility, since this is a thread regarding just what exactly the greys are. I'm actualy more attracted to the notion of extraterrestrial, extradimensional, or extratemporal beings visiting us with some benign or malevolant intent (or both). This is just a theory I came up with a year or two ago while I was sitting and thinking things over. It's probably dead wrong, but the fact that it's even conceivable is somewhat unsettling to me.

Think about it. The idea that we can hybridize biological entities either to create specific genetic traits, or to offer resistance (or in this case perhaps, vulnerability) to specific pathogens, isn't a new one. And we already know that atleast in nature, mutation sometimes requires migration of a life form from one species to another (even among common illnesses; look at SARS). Could this all just be that on a grander and more artificial scale? We know the government conducted extensive research in this field for a long time before it seems to have stopped. And soon after it appeared to "stop," was when alot of so-called "modern day" abductions began to occur in larger numbers, atleast if memory serves. (I've been out of the loop for a few years on these matters, so I could be wrong about alot by now lol).

Anyway, thanks for reading.

Originally posted by coney
Their contact with your Governments has been allowed, inasmuch that they turned away earlier offers from the Federation of Planets to help you onto your path of evolution.

Here's the link:
/69gn6

come on!!?... "Federation of Planets"!!!???

what a trekkie...

[edit on 10/10/2004 by Assassin]

Er...yes, we arent evolving because we have no need to, we are able to manipulate our environment to the point that we dont need to change to survive. Example, its cold outside, solution, go inside and make a nice fire.. Well, uh, yeah, I hope you get my point. We leads me to my next point, I dont find it that shocking that aliens would look humanoid in appearance, that is, bipedal. I mean, think about it, would you ever see a cow flying an airplane? That may sound silly, actually it is, but my point is a cow wouldnt evovle to the point where it was smart enough to develop such things, because they cant manipulate their environment. Being bi-pedal is very functional and it would only make sense that a bi-pedal species would evolve through natural selection to the point where they were smart enough to build aircraft and such (because of their ability to easily grasp things, build things, bi-pedalism is very diverse). I hope that made any sense what so ever. Let me know what you think.

I mean, think about it, would you ever see a cow flying an airplane? That may sound silly, actually it is, but my point is a cow wouldnt evovle to the point where it was smart enough to develop such things, because they cant manipulate their environment.

Can't manipulate the environment? What do you think is happening when they eat grass? Or walk on it for that matter. You must be thinking of the cows in the factory farming industry

If you trace our genetic ancestry back to its alleged roots you will find monkeys who swing from trees and fling poo. They evolved and can now be seen flying airplanes, silly but true.

Could it be possible that the greys arent really aliens at all? but rather some kind of secret ninja cult that dresses in grey instead of black?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
I mean, think about it, would you ever see a cow flying an airplane? That may sound silly, actually it is, but my point is a cow wouldnt evovle to the point where it was smart enough to develop such things, because they cant manipulate their environment.

Can't manipulate the environment? What do you think is happening when they eat grass? Or walk on it for that matter. You must be thinking of the cows in the factory farming industry

If you trace our genetic ancestry back to its alleged roots you will find monkeys who swing from trees and fling poo. They evolved and can now be seen flying airplanes, silly but true.

By "manipulate" I meant things like, building a fire, making a hut, using tools for hunting... I dont see how cows manipulate anything. And what you said about monkeys is my whole point, they are bi-pedal! So its only inevitable that they would evovle to the point where they could fly airplanes! did you miss my point? The point I was trying to make is that, it seems like it would be near impossible for any species that isnt pi-pedal, to become advanced enough to the point where they could fly aircraft to other planets.. What I was trying to say is, I dont find it that surprising that aliens are bi-pedal.

Originally posted by Alec Eiffel

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
I mean, think about it, would you ever see a cow flying an airplane? That may sound silly, actually it is, but my point is a cow wouldnt evovle to the point where it was smart enough to develop such things, because they cant manipulate their environment.

Can't manipulate the environment? What do you think is happening when they eat grass? Or walk on it for that matter. You must be thinking of the cows in the factory farming industry

If you trace our genetic ancestry back to its alleged roots you will find monkeys who swing from trees and fling poo. They evolved and can now be seen flying airplanes, silly but true.

By "manipulate" I meant things like, building a fire, making a hut, using tools for hunting... I dont see how cows manipulate anything. And what you said about monkeys is my whole point, they are bi-pedal! So its only inevitable that they would evovle to the point where they could fly airplanes! did you miss my point? The point I was trying to make is that, it seems like it would be near impossible for any species that isnt pi-pedal, to become advanced enough to the point where they could fly aircraft to other planets.. What I was trying to say is, I dont find it that surprising that aliens are bi-pedal.

Well your use of the word manipulate is simply wrong.

Again eating grass, walking on grass (killing life by doing so), are all ways they manipulate the environment. Did you miss my point? You don't see that it's manipulation because it's not as grand as turning lead to gold.

As far as bi-pedal being a prereq for the evolution of self-awarness, that doesn't really coincide with the evolution theory. I think that's more the biasness of a bi-pedal