The Dragon, the Beasts, the "666" and the Seven Hills revealed!

Hi ATS members. I’ve taken the time to put together an explanation as to what 3 main passages found in the Book of Revelation may mean. The meaning of these passages came by way of “insight”.

Let me start by saying that my intention isn’t to convince anyone of anything, therefore I will not get into any type of argument or discussion whose whole, or part, intention is to either prove or disprove a particular point. I will try, where needed and possible, to provide references for some key points. However, I will not provide references and related accompanying material, URL’s, etc, for statements which are universally accepted, regarded by the general populace as true facts, or simply plain obvious. In other words, if I say below “a red apple”, I will not make any effort to prove that apples are “red” or that the color “red” truly exists. Or if I say, “a universal belief among nearly all most popularly practiced religions is the need to engage in introspection, meditation or prayer in order to communicate with God”, I will not make any serious attempt to explain or justify my statement. To understand such comments requires a certain level of general education into major religions that it would be beyond the scope of this thread to explain, much less provide.

In other words, the purpose of this thread isn’t to educate anyone, or to teach concepts on meta-physics. For this reason, I want to clarify that this thread is mainly intended for those who have some general understanding of: major religions and their doctrines, the meta-physical subject as a whole, and a general understanding of the Bible, primarily the Book of Revelation. The 3 main passages that I will like to shed some light on are: the meaning of the Dragon and the two Beasts, the “seven hills” and the number “666”.

To understand the meaning of the 3 passages above, it’s important to understand that when it comes to meta-physical ideas and concepts, it’s possible for one passage to mean several different things or to be applied to several different circumstances at once. For instance in John 16:33, Jesus allegedly said, “In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. “ Here we can easily tell that Jesus uses the phrase “I have overcome the world” as a way of saying he has overcome “the ways of the world” or “whatever obstacles he was up against”. This particular Bible passage however is very easy to understand as we can clearly conclude that Jesus didn’t set about on a battle against the entire world and populace or governments and armies of the time as a whole.

More encrypted passages however aren’t so easy to make out. One of the reasons for this is that metaphysical concepts usually affect a wider spectrum of phenomena than our normal, everyday physical ones. As an analogy, consider the following: if I were to push an object with my hand, the most noticeable effect would be the displacement and relocation of the object moved. This is the most perceivable effect of my action. However, if I were to blow something up, we would find that my action has created: movement, light, fire, destruction of matter, creation of new energy form (radiation in case of an atomic blast), etc. Just one action, but many different results.
Because human beings seem to be a micro-reflection of a larger entity “So God created man in his own image” Genesis 1:27, and because human beings when working in conjunction with other human beings have the power to affect a wider spectrum of physical “reality” (a city, a nation, the world), many Bible passages speak at once about both the individual effect of the human being within his soul as well as the entire little blue planet we call Earth. For this reason the Book of Revelation applies to both how individual souls (through spiritual development) will one day understand and the whole world too (as a result).
The Book of Revelation seems to be written to “warn” us and “urge” us to “repent”. To do this, it gives us 5 pieces of critical information: where, how, who, when, and why. The “where” and “how” for the most part hold the least mystery of all. For “where”, we can conclude that the struggle will happen within each person’s soul, when we’re asked to repent, and also on the entire planet which is destined to be affected by destruction and chaos (another example of dualism at a philosophic level).

For the “why”, we can say that it’s because of our “evil ways”. And that the correction (the “how”) will happen by way of catastrophes, destruction and severe struggles that the human kind must face. The “who” can be split into two: the affectors and the affected. For the affected, we can conclude that the Bible speaks to each one of us, the persons who “hear the message” (Revelation 1:3 -- Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy) . The other “who”, the “affector”, remains a deep and dark mystery, although it’s possible to believe that the Bible may speak of more than one affector.
Hence we arrive at perhaps, for us humans, the most critical pieces of information that we need to know, the “affector” and the “when”. It is ironic to point out that if we truly behaved in the ways of God, perhaps we would not care about the “when” or even who the “great deceiver” is (12:9), but we are where we are.
The Dragon and the Beasts, the seven hills and the number 666 are closely intertwined. However, for the most part, they are really meant to tell us “when” and not “who”. As discussed earlier, evil can take many different expressions, shapes and forms; to narrow it down to one entity may be analogous to trying to put all the rain in the Amazon into one single cup. Evil can be Bush or Obama to some, Osama to others, the NWO, the rich countries who promote war, the IMF, etc. I think it may be easier to say that all those who don’t truly behave in the way of the Lord (love and compassion), are good candidates to be the evil ones. However, this movement must have a leader or an entity who can give some direction to this wickedness. These are the “Dragon and the two Beasts”.

Meaning of the “Dragon and the two Beasts”. First off, I’m well aware of the interpretation given to the Prophet Daniel about who the dragon and the beasts represent, however as I said previously, metaphysical matters aren’t simple linguistic issues in search of a literary translation, since they can actually relate to more than one thing at once.

In the interpretation that I was given by way of insight, The Dragon and the first Beast refers to two specific countries, which John sees as being the primary engines behind the world’s wickedness on a major scale. In other words, these two countries are the emblem of society’s selfishness and greed. John’s gives us a couple of clues regarding these two countries. First, he tells us that they both speak the same language (Chapter 13:11) or to be precise that the Beast spoke like the Dragon, and that the Beast came up from the sea.

That the Beast was seen rising out of the ocean, is because John sees one of the two countries on one side of the ocean, and the other country being born on the other side of the ocean, (the one created by the Dragon). This references the creation of the U.S by Britain, the U.S being an offspring colony of the United Kingdom, hence the Beast (the U.S), who was given authority to make war over all the earth (Chapter 13:7) by the the Dragon (the UK), was also given a “mouth” to speak great things; this refers to the U.K passing onto the U.S the English language as the native tongue, hence it was given its “mouth” to speak. Later on, John tells us that the second beast spoke as a “dragon” (13:11), another reference to let us know that although different, they speak the same language. Since English wasn’t even a language which existed 2,000 years ago, John was trying to describe the sounds he heard these countries leaders speak, so he simply compares the two countries by the way they speak.

I will not try to persuade anyone to believe any of the above, little research will show that although the U.S and the U.K speak “great things” (as put by John), meaning “peace, equality, freedom, etc.”, they are the most brutal supporters of war, economic injustice, and dictatorships around the world. I will just say this, it’s impossible to build empires and entire armies on earth by giving out chocolate-chip cookies: brutal, merciless force is required.
John tells us that the Beast, (the U.S) will deceive many, and this we know by simply seeing how much the American people support their govt. when they are constantly fed lies. Even when they know their govts are bombing other countries, they seem to be pretty ok about it because their government tells them that the war and the bombs are being dropped for a damn good reason: freedom. Yes, it seems truly illogical and unbelievable but this really happens (I know this first-hand having lived in the US most of my life).
The Beast (U.S) does great wonders which the people on earth admire just like John said (13:13) “he doeth great wonders”. This we know because the US is the biggest promoter around the world of music, film and technology (think Hollywood, Elvis, Madonna, M. Jackson, putting a man on the moon, finding “vaccines” just at the right moment when the people on Earth desperately need them, the light bulb, etc.).

However, in this context, John also speaks of a second beast that rises after the first one, which also speaks like the Dragon. This John tells us so we can distinguish who these mysterious entities are and so that we know more or less what time period he’s referring to. He also gives us these clues so we can avoid their lies and deceit and so that we know that mostly evil will come out of them.

He gives us a couple of cryptic clues: the second Beast that John sees rises after the first one (U.S), it speaks the same language as the Dragon (English), it does great wonders and many are fooled by it, it makes the people of the Earth admire the first Beast. Let’s do a very general recap and then analyze these cryptic passages:
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him (lies, deceit, materialism), and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast (admire the first beast), whose deadly wound was healed (Sept 11 attack, a deadly wound which was healed?).
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men (rockets, laser guided missiles being dropped?),
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live (we will see what this image means shortly).
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak (wow, this image seems to speak, contains words, language?, multi-media?), and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed (a reference that those countries which don’t play by the values (image) of the U.S, U.K. (and extensions) will have their leaders/people killed? (Think Irak, Libya, Iran, Panama, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay in the 70’s, etc.).
Finally, it tells us that whether rich or poor, big or small, even those who are freed or without freedom (incarcerated?) would have the image of the Beast. And that primarily through this means people would be able to buy and sell. Finally we’re given the cryptic sign: the number 666.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Let’s analyze these passages above and see if we can find what John may be trying to describe 2,000 years ago.
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.

John seems to be trying to describe an “image” of the Beast, meaning something that resembles the Beast. Since we know that the Beast is based on materialism, selfishness, egocentrism, and greed we must look for something that promotes these wrong values. John also tells us that this image of the beast seems to “speak”. Perhaps he could be making a reference to the TV, however although the first TV was displayed in the UK in 1926 (which helps our theory, it was invented by a Scottish inventor, an earlier different version being created by a German and another one by a Russian): www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television. And although shopping can occur via tele-shopping, it isn’t by any means a strong way of trade and it usually requires picking up a phone. We also can’t clearly draw a reference between a “mark” of the Beast and the TV, and for this reason believe this not to be its image.

The next modern “image of the Beast” which seems to fit the description could be the internet. Let’s consider it for a moment. First, it’s origin. Can someone of English background or who speaks English as his main language (like the Dragon) have invented it? Yes. The web, is attributed to have been invented by a British: www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee who resides in the US. It too has the “name” of the Beast. Meaning “www” stands for World Wide Web, which are English words. Here John gives us another clue that this “image” is made after the Beast (its name is derived from the English language which the Dragon (UK) and the Beast (US) speak). “And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads”.

First John uses the word “causeth”, this is extremely important and it has been overlooked by other researchers. John is saying here that the Beast doesn’t “force” its image onto humans, nor does the Beast directly make people have to have the image, he “causes” them to have to have it. In other words, it isn’t truly an obligation or even mandatory, but it seems to become a necessity since in another verse he says that it’s the only way to buy and sell and that the image “speaks” and the second Beast does great, wonderful things. This also seems to be true about the web nowadays, you don’t have to have it, but many times it’s the only way to get around things. Sometimes, even to pay a traffic fine or to view your bank statement, or to check in online and save yourself a few dollars, you have to do it online. So although it isn’t truly a “must”, we’re forced little by little, be it convenience, discounts, and services, to have to use the web. Many businesses don’t even list a phone number anymore on their websites, you have to “write in” through the web. Or you have to click on an annoying “click here for help” to get someone to virtually help you. Even if you don’t buy or sell on the web, everything on a major scale is done electronically nowadays, especially major trading between banks and governments. You don’t really think a bank sends a paper check for a wire transfer to another bank around the world, do you? They do everything electronically through the web.

“small and great, rich and poor, free and bond…” This is purely an accessibility issue which John is describing for us so we can pinpoint what he’s trying to describe. We can agree that almost anybody nowadays has access to the internet, be it at home, work, cell-phone, cyber-café, etc.. It’s virtually everywhere. You can use it even if you’re poor, meaning it isn’t a luxury like owning a tv or a radio. In many places is completely free (hotspots – Wi-fi Spots). This is because the internet is a service which doesn’t require you to own any actual hardware to use it. You can just walk into a cyber-café, buy a coffee and you’re on (many cyber-cafes have their own computer you can use). Or you can use it at school (like in many third-world countries). John also says that those who are free and those with no freedom can also receive the image. Actually, this is true, because inmates can too have access to the web in some form of another: www.allfacebook.com... , forum.jpay.com...

In fact, even in some third-world countries like Ethiopia, the kids will not only have access to the internet, but get this, a computer too!: “The program aimed to be available worldwide. Laptops could be delivered in the USA, in Canada and in more than 30 European countries, as well as in some Central and South American countries (Colombia, Haiti, Peru, Uruguay, Paraguay), African countries (Ethiopia, Ghana, Nigeria, Madagascar, Rwanda) and Asian countries (Afghanistan, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Nepal). en.wikipedia.org...” Suffice to say that the program is speared by yes, a U.S organization (One Laptop per Child Association, Inc. U.S. (OLPC),). I’m in no way implying that this organization is evil, but remember, the Beast causeth all, both “great and small” to use its image. However, look at its founding members “OLPC is a non-profit organization funded by member organizations such as AMD, eBay, Google, News Corporation, Red Hat, and Marvell.”.Don’t you wonder what eBay and Google or News Corporation may have to gain from kids around the world having access to the internet? I doubt they have the kids’ spirituality in mind.

“to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads”. This is perhaps the greatest mystery in discussion nowadays. The meaning of this passage is very, very obscure since we would all know when this happens if we saw people walking around with a stamp on their hands or foreheads, however John says repeatedly that the we’re up against the “great deceiver”. And that we’re going to be fooled by this entity while at the same time being marveled by its accomplishments. Many have spoken about “chips” being implanted, however is this were so, the mystery would be revealed and the Beast exposed. It’s also doubtful that many sectors around the world which are very traditional (Chinese, Tibetan, Muslim) or against the west (Iran, Syria, China), would openly accept a chip being implanted. But again, it would expose the “deceiver”, so it is something that will pass unnoticed by everyone.

John says that the people “receive a mark” in their right hand: could this be a reference of how 70 to 90% of the people have access to the “image”, by typing “www” with their right hand? After all, nearly 8 out of 10 people are right-handed en.wikipedia.org... and you’re required to type a URL on your navigation bar to have access to the “image”. It’s hard to say, however, the reference to receiving the “mark” in their foreheads is much more difficult to explain. Granted, if you sit in front of your screen, the mark of the Beast (www), will be probably be at the same level of your eyes or forehead’s height area. Perhaps this is what John saw, the “www” being around the same height of people’s foreheads as they sit in front of their computer screens.
Technologies are also being developed to control computers with mind-thoughts, so perhaps this is a part of the prophecy which will come true in just a couple of years where we can access the internet with our minds, without using a keyboard. Yet, another interpretation may have to do with metaphysical phenomena. The third eye usually resides “in the forehead”, like John stated where the mark would be received. It is believed that this chakra (Ajna Chakra) reflects everything we see, or come in contact with. Perhaps he saw this reflection within this chakra or this chakra being perturbed by so much use of the internet (after all, the Book of Revelation is spiritual in nature).

“Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.” Finally, we arrive at one of the biggest mysteries concerning the Book of Revelation: the famous “666”. Again, I’m well versed on other scholarly articles about the 666 being a reference to diseased individuals around John’s time, but the end of days and the second coming hasn’t arrived yet, so those claims have to be put aside for the moment. Now, interestingly enough, along with this clue John gives us yet another hint. He says that this is the “number of the Beast”. Since I’m proposing that the internet is the second beast how can this “666” number be its identifier? Perhaps we should turn to the Hebrew alphabet. There we will find the following: “The Hebrew and Greek alphabet does not have separate characters or alphabets for numbers and letters. Letters are also used as numbers. So each letter is a numerical value.”
en.wikipedia.org...
The Hebrew equivalent of our "w" is the letter "vav" or "waw". The numerical value of vav is 6. So the English "www" transliterated into Hebrew letter by letter is "vav vav vav", which numerically is 6 6 6.”

Given that the primary language being used with the image around the world is, unsurprisingly, the English language (w3techs.com...), I think we have met the following criteria:
1. An image after the Beast – yes, it’s name is English based
2. It can “speak” – yes, content on the internet is primarily verbal and multi-media based
3. It’s accessible by nearly everyone – yes, discussed this above
4. A method to buy and sell – yes, think E-Bay, Amazon, your bank account, online trading, etc.
5. Would make people make an image of the beast – yes, this is when you create your Facebook account, MySpace, etc., you’re creating an extension of the beast in yourself by super-imposing a virtual self on your physical self (for example, if using FaceBook, when you were born, what you like, how tall you are, pictures of your physical self, etc.), these are but physical attributes created on a virtual persona.
6. Mark in right hand/forehead – yes and no, perhaps in the future will be more clear
7. Number of the beast – yes
8. It will fool almost everyone, even saints – yes, nearly all of us think of the internet as good and a great tool that is good for humanity. However, we fail to see its biggest problem which I will discuss in my closing remarks, moving away from our spiritual center.

The Seven Hills – Have some theorized that Rome is the city referenced with the Revelation passage which speaks of the city on the “seven hills”. This verse may have many connotations, both physical as well as meta-physical (seven continents, seven chakras, seven days of the week, the Vatican, etc.). However, I don’t think John was speaking of Rome or the Vatican, as there are 2/3 of the world who aren’t Christian or Catholic. I doubt that God would only care about 1/3 of his children. For the purpose of this thread, I reckon the meaning of seven hills being related to the Dragon, the beast and its image, and the place where “silver and gold” is traded and humanity takes its lack of spirituality to a whole new level: the cyber realm. In other words, not happy that we’re totally failing at achieving spiritual mastery within our physical “illusion”, we have yet created another illusion, the virtual realm.

The emphasis or day to day engagement in a cyber-persona or cyber life is particularly catastrophic spirituality speaking because we’re now creating yet another persona over our already illusory physical self (on the basis that our soul/spirit is our true self, a physical an illusion super-imposed over our soul). John sees this as extremely troubling since we’re now one step further from reaching God (found within ourselves). The direct threat that perplexes John is that he sees humans in the distant future not sitting in a corner praying or meditating, not even shaking hands with their neighbors or bank tellers, not meeting a special someone on a bar or public library, not purchasing services by having to have real interaction with one another, nor kids playing basketball or soccer in front of their homes anymore, but everything done virtually, without ever having the need to have true contact with other beings.

John gives us one final clue. He says that this place, filled with materiality, with lust and with greed resides on what he sees as “seven hills”. Count the hills with me:






Conlusion and closing remarks: John is describing to us the time when the world will fall away from God. He gives us the major players (UK, US) as the main orchestrators of unrest and deceit by taking the world into war, materialism and consumism. He tells us that the actors and their image all share the same language (speak as the Dragon). He tells us that the Beast will cause others to use an image which pays homage to it (materialism, egocentrism, selfishness, etc.) and whose name is after the Beast and the Dragon’s (world-wide-web being English words). It gives us a further clue, telling us that the numbers 6 6 6 will tell us who this second beast is (6 being the Hebrew equivalent for “w”). It finally tells us that this place of greed, and lust, and materialism resides on 7 hills (the seven hills created by the letters “WWW”).

Obviously, unless John had told us the exact words “humans will one day create a thing called “internet”, and “this” will attack “these” other countries, everything is up for debate, including this thread. I have tried to provide ATS members with a solid interpretation.

I personally don’t have any problems with the internet (unfortunately, I may add, since I use it for work too). But I do think that our lives’ goal is in part finding the God within us, and in order to do so, we need to spend time with ourselves and others (in real life), and spend more time meditating and praying to whomever we believe the supreme being to be.

Nearly all major religions and prophets, be it Krishna, Christ, the Buddha, Father Pio, tell us that we need to pray and meditate. It seems to me, IMHO, that the internet is little by little taking us away from these spiritual goals. Yes, we may spend time on the web researching conspiracies and spiritual matters, but if we don’t sit and pray and contemplate inwardly as much as we spend on the web, what good is it? It isn’t doing research on how to play an on instrument that one becomes good at playing, is it? Actual practice is required.

From a meta-physical sense, in order to undo negative Karma and grow spiritually, we must either pray and meditate a whole lot, and/or have interactions with other beings which will give us the opportunity to give them love, compassion and kindness. Unfortunately, the web may drive us even further away from being able to do what was already challenging to do, during our face to face interactions.

The great deceiver is the web: a fabricated wonderful world where we can’t perfect ourselves in any way that will liberate us spiritually, anymore than you can learn an instrument by watching someone else play it. John saw this, and he warned us, but as he said, almost all will be deceived.

1. The first Beast
rose up out of the waters = radio



2. The second beast = movies
(powerless without sound, see point 1. above)



3. Fire called down
in the eyes of man = The false prophet



This is all in my opinion.
Only intended to add counter point to the opening post.

Because in the last paragraph, we may be in agreement.


David Grouchy

Originally posted by beyondsense

The great deceiver is the web: a fabricated wonderful world where we can’t perfect ourselves in any way that will liberate us spiritually, anymore than you can learn an instrument by watching someone else play it. John saw this, and he warned us, but as he said, almost all will be deceived.

reply to post by beyondsense


Good work. I don't know enough about revelations to add anything, but I enjoyed reading that. Thanks.

reply to post by beyondsense


I don't identify myself as christian, although i do believe in a higher power and the continuation of a life - after death.

This is article is well constructed and thought out. You have put forward an interpretation of the Book of Revelations in such a manner that has me convinced, that all you have theorised could actually be an explanation of what "John"
was trying to warn us of.

Well written!
S&F

Revelations means to reveal.

But one would know and not guess at the interpretation because it would be revealed to her or him.

Think along the lines of what could be taken as 'spiritual'. 'It' has been around for nearly 2,000 years and holds to all those clues that are given: man's name, 'mark' given on the forehead, one uses the hand, the 'mother' sits upon seven hills...etc.

So whats the counter option as to not be deceived?

I'm sorry I don't agree with your opinion. That's simply mine. The main problem I have is that I believe the United States of America is the Greatest Country to exist in the history of man kind as far as Good will to their fellow man. Man from day one and countries as a whole have always been about material things and power. This is because man kind is wretched by design. I'm not saying we along with every other country don't have moments we are not proud of. Our system is not perfect because man is not perfect. There will always be abuses and evil until Judgement day. However there has never been another country that has given more so other people may live in peace. If you disagree look it up because it's a historical fact. We don't occupy countries like every other nation does when they win a war. Nor do we rob it of it's resources. In fact we stabilize it rebuild it and then leave. If your from a different country and reading this chances are you speak the language you speak because of our generosity. Instead of German or Japanese or Russian. That is why I discounted your theory immediately. The WWW is a very interesting point. However there are many many good things that come from Web not just evil. You can read up on what ever religion that interests you. How can that be evil. Once again it's the evil in mankind. Not the tools or the systems fault.

reply to post by JerryB08


Man is probably the beast and those books are meant to confuse you.

Ego is just apart of man.

reply to post by onequestion


Mankind very well could be. We certainly have evolved in some areas but spirituality certainly isn't one of them that's for sure.

Another point I would like to make is that because the Bible was written in Hebrew very very few people actually knows what it says. look how many different ways religions in Christianity interpret the Bible. My understanding of Hebrew is there simply isn't words that match in English and like English many have different meanings. Then you had the scribes that picked and chose what they wanted put in and what they didn't. Let's not forget that RELIGION is the earliest type of government in our history. here is a prime example the religion of Islam is supposed to be peaceful. Well some people didn't get that memo that's for sure. Just as Christianity has had some very dark times. I don't believe it has ever been Holy to kill people because they simply have different religious beliefs. What if that person was going to naturally switch to that certain religion next week? If it's in a Holy book it is become some evil editor put it in there. The man in FL that burnt a Koran. I'm sure he thinks he going to heaven. I personally think he will burn in hell. I'm a christian. What he did he might as well as went to Afghanistan and killed all those people himself. Then there are the murders that reacted to his madness by murdering people in their name of their version of God. They'll be in hell with him. This is simply all my opinion. And food for thought.

Also John wouldn't have seen seven hills in WWW he would have seen


VAVVAVVAV

Mind teasing ideas. I think you are right that once mentally linked to a computer we could change immensely and loose our spiritual affinity to the world we live in and ultimately our humanity. Suppose this developed and we couldn't sever the link - he who writes the solfware controls mankind.

Revelation has always chilled me because the bar code with all one's personal information on, Tax, health insurance and, bank account number + the ability to implant into us a strip of plastic our bodies wouldn't reject to put that number on, should not have been a concept St John the Divine knew anything about, however high he could get himself with the flora on his little island.

I have another perspective on this. St John's reference to the 7 hills and the dragon's heads etc are also astrological symbols and measurements. Hard today for most to understand how significant this information was regarded then.

The 7 hills - Sun, moon, mercury, venus, mars, jupiter and saturn, the seven planets visible to man. Their symbolic meaning attached then also to their Gods, Saints etc are virtually lost to us today except of course Satan /Saturn the planet symbolic of restriction amongst other things. The Dragons head and tail are measurements of the moons nodes an important measurement to the ancient moon based societies.

reply to post by Lynda101


Very interesting indeed. All good points. I think however the idea of physically getting something implanted would unmask the "deceiver" so whatever it is, it may be something that will pass unnoticed. How about "cell phone"? It's used with the right hand by most people, it's able to "speak", in Japan it can be used to buy at store and to identify itself. Most people can't do without it anymore. In some countries they are fairly cheap (even $15 dollars), etc.

the angus meal with a large coke is $6.66 at McyD's

reply to post by Rekrul


What does it all mean, what does it all mean...

reply to post by beyondsense


Absolutely incredible in depth commentary I've ever read regarding this subject! Unfortunately...I have been down that road and even one of the first computers name was "beast", so it seems to fit, but once you see the complete picture with reference to the full prophecy, it can't "quite" fit. I more or less equate the computer along with technology as the tree of knowledge of both good and evil and also include it in the stuff pertained to the whore Babylon. It is yet, another one of man's inventions that can make or break a persons faith in God.


When you take the entire Bible/Quran and read it, sit and find the one message God seems to be repeating through all of it. It comes down to faith, and believing in Him and Him alone, so whatever world invention, theory, proof, sign, wonder, miracle etc...leads a person away from God, is where you will find the beast, he is head of them all.

I'm still reading and will comment more because you have found a jewel and no doubt only God can deliver such truths to His people who will listen and share the truth and warning

I think these may help and believe many refute the idea of just two non-Abrahamic physical bloodline most militarily powerful nations as being the sole lovers of their own selves or skin (material) or even to say outward appearances but not to say that all were created in vain either, I believe what Jesus is trying to get at is that NO MAN can boast

For there is no respect of persons with God.

There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins.

For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him

But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

reply to post by Maymunah


That was very interesting. I agree completely.

reply to post by Rustami


I have come to the conclusions that the lord didn't make me intelligent enough in this manner to understand all this. Not sure why I'm certainly no idiot. But I just don't understand the messages. I have no idea what that was saying. I guess I'm screwed.

reply to post by JerryB08


I think all in all it's pointing to the unconditional mercy of God or so loving the world... these may some up that point better though

therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.

it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands

the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet

Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly: How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay

Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.