Do the Terminally Ill Have a Right to Die?

YES. If they feel they have endured, physically, or Mentally, beyond what
they can take, then yes, they should be given assistance to end their natural life, if they feel or perceive that life
is no longer bearable.Of course if the cure, or solution to their anguish is simple, ie an answer, or therapy, or treatment, then surely it would be the primary course of action in the western world?

Have just been through it last year mum and dad died. Feb 2010 dad and mum May 2010. Dad had mesothelioma compression on heart desease caused by asbestosis and mum had glioblastoma brain cancer. This topic is difficult as memories rush back. In November 2008 when mum was diagnosed my wife and I moved in to care for both mum and dad. Dad was ok at that point. Over the next 18 months mum deteriorated and slowly lost all functions. Dad would assist me in caring, he was 84 mum was 75. We used a crane to move mum up and down to feed sit in chair toilet etc. I became her life and body. In December 2009 dad was diagnosed with mesothelioma, asbestosis was diagnosed 7 years prior but did not affect him. Dad died at home except for last 5 hours in a hospital. He stopped moving 1 week before his death at home. The scene of seeing mum and dad bedridden and dieing and awakening to their groans to administer pain killers is burnt in my mind and soul forever. The last week I asked God to take them as my grief was unbearable. They never asked me to kill them. Mum was on a stomach pump morthine system and dad was on pills. The system worked brilliantly. Though in some pain dad was moving up until the last week. He had breakfast the day we transferred him to hospital. The nurses should have set him up also with stomach pump medication but they didnt. I missed him last 5 hours as I had to rush home to put mum back in bed with crane. He died without family by his side last 5 hours. They said they gave him 4 mg of morphine and other drugs to ease pain and he died in his sleep.
Mum at last week was communicating with fingers and eyelid movement. We told her we loved her my bro and our wives grandkids and her family. I administered water and food products through a large needle up to 1 day before her death. It wasnt forced as she was sucking it. Do not believe in dehydration death this is cruel mum proved to me she wanted to die with a few drops of water in mouth. Her morphine stomach system worked well. On awakening after it wore off we had a window to talk in signs and she accepted water. She died peacefully in her sleep and I am still grieving even after 1 year. I do not blame God as maybe losing them both so close together was meant to be as dad would have died of a broken heart. Hope this answers some questions

Although I understand the thoughts being expressed here, not addressing and asserting our right to die gives them all they need to assume that we do not want or need that right so it is not hard to extrapolate this and soon we may have goons making sure that we are living healthy, exercising, eating "right" etc etc.

A right is like a muscle, flex that mother F'er or lose the ability to do so.

FREE KEVORKIAN!!! they.... they did free him already? oh sorry

FREE MUMIA!!! FREE YOURSELF!!!

And it's my opinion that people should automatically be put to death (painlessly) at age 75, with a bonus in the form of a waiving of death-duties for those who elect to die earlier. It would free-up resources (housing, hospitals, etc.) to a huge degree and would spare people the problem of sick and ageing parents. Most of all, it would provide what people need most -- a cut-off date. If people knew they were going to die on their 75th birthday, they'd put more into (and get more out of ) life. And it would remove the worry of being burdens of their families and of being forced to endure years of decay. After all, when a woman's pregnant, she knows when the child will be born. Makes sense that people know when they'll die, also. After all, it's a given that we're all going to die anyway. It's time WE decided the terms

edit on 3-4-2011 by Dock9 because: a tidy up

You might feel a bit differently if you were say 73 years old but still of sound mind and completely healthy. Sorry but this is a dumb idea. Some people live to be well over 85 with an active life and of sound mind. Some people don't see thier 50th birthday. That having been said, I do feel everyone has the choice to choose in a case where someone is terminally ill with no chance for recovery. My ex-girlfriend whom I loved very much and lived with for 8 years had something horrible happen shortly after we went our seperate ways. She had a brain aneurism and went into a coma. I along with her mother, and her son and 2 daughters was told by the doctor's that she was brain dead and there was zero chance of recovery from it. There was no reason to keep her on machines to keep her alive. Her passing hurt like hell because I still very much was in love with her and a part of me always will be. But it was the right thing to do, she would not have wanted to be a vegetable on a machine pointlessly. Everyone has a right to choose how they make the transition into the hereafter, and nobody has the right to take that away imo. I know, I'd rather go with some dignity if the time came where there was no hope of a recovery and the pain was unbearable.

Sugarcookie my thoughts and prayers are with you, and I am very sorry to have learned about your situation

reply to post by OverMan

The problem we face with euthanasia is this. It can be used by families and others to terminate peoples lives and totally change the way of life. Hospices are basically legal euthanasia hospitals anyway. We already have it. If you want to die quickly and not at home or in a nursing home enter a hospice. There you will be at the mercy of nurses doctors who will deal with your condition as they see fit and the family and person will have no say. And it is true some of these places do practice over medication which has the effect of the dieing person not being able to drink or eat anymore. Euthanasia is already occuring and happening its just called Palliative Care. This may be the only option for people who do not have the family or means to die at home but after what I know even saying this I have seen that high doses of morphine in the dieing allows them to pass away in their sleep

For those that say suffering is part of life and folks should deal with it. That is easier said when one has not watched someone be tormented for months or years or experienced it themselves. Pain is a part of life, but there is a threshold and one should be able to decide for themselves when that threshold is past.

My grandmother fell in her house several years back. 2 days later she was found and taken to the hospital. She only spent a week put of professional care for another year after that. Of course she broke her hip and collar bone, but a large tumor was found in her liver that same night during scans for injuries. It was that, that made her weak enough to fall.

The cancer quickly progressed from there as far as pain goes. We all watched a strong, solid, woman fade into a shell of weakness, indescribable pain, along with pride lost that after 72 years she could not keep from soiling herself. A woman who gave birth to my mother with no meds in her bed at home. 5 feet of concrete that didn't take crap, didn't shed a tear when she had 3 hernias repaired at one time and was back in the saddle again in a week and a half. We watched for weeks on end when she could not contain her screams because the pain was so severe and the embarrassement that caused her.

Worst of all, we watched her beg to just be let go.

Fortunately, we had a benevolent doctor on that last trip back to the hospital from the nursing home. That night she lay in bed peacefully. Saying she had seen her husband and the daughter I lost.... she was ready to go "home". That night she went "home" and I thanked God and the doc for it. As much as we like to be greedy and keep the ones we love alive as long as possible... it is just that. Greed and selfishness to save ourselves from our own pain. Loving someone enough to let them go is difficult, but one of the best gifts you can give if you ever have to.

Doctors DO give that bit of extra pain medication from time to time. I have family in the field and know it happens. Their oath has naught to do with it. They are in the business to help people. The method of "help" could have many definitions.

I love my mother more than anything in the world.She is my best friend, my confidant, and my rock. If she suffered lke my grandmother had to, I would wiilingly pull time in jail to "help" her put an end to it. We have discussed it many times. Everyone should make sure their wishes are known to atleast one person if not more.

When folks say suffering is part of life, in some ways they are correct. But with the advances in medicine and treatment, a lot of times we have just managed to draw out the suffering and misery to cruel lengths. What part of that is what we are supposed to endure, and what part can we cut out?

If I may make a suggestion.

We're all terminal.

And the dying part has nothing to do with rights.

It's a certainty.

Why do you put your parents in nursing homes, they cleaned and wiped your asses for many years. People who do this should be ashamed of themselves. I gave up my job and life for the last 2 years of their lives and cared for them. I have no regrets and my conscience is clear. If a husband or wife wants to put your parents in a nursing home when you are prepared to care for them tell them to go and get stuffed. There are many husbands and wives out there but you only have 1 or 2 parents.

reply to post by sugarcookie1


As a nurse, I frequently work with death and dying patients. What you are describing is called COMFORT CARE. Often the patient is either sent home with a prescription or while in the hospital is placed on a IV PCA Pump with morphine or other medications to help *EASE PAIN and SUFFERING* But in reality it is a *TYPE* of euthanasia because it always results in death.

There are so many loop holes for the doctors to allow it so that it does not appear as true euthanasia. Usually if the patient is of sound mind, they can sign a DNR form for a Do Not Resuscitate order prior to prescription administration. If the patient has dementia for example, another family member who is the legal guardian can request the comfort care. Its all about letting the patient die without pain and suffering yes, but the meds actually cause the respirations to become less and less while keeping patient either asleep and unaware or asleep and unaware......

Howver I have seen so many times patients waking up for a few minutes when a family member has not been present arrives for a final goodbye.....It always brings tears to my eyes.....

Originally posted by shroudnews77
Why do you put your parents in nursing homes, they cleaned and wiped your asses for many years. People who do this should be ashamed of themselves. I gave up my job and life for the last 2 years of their lives and cared for them. I have no regrets and my conscience is clear. If a husband or wife wants to put your parents in a nursing home when you are prepared to care for them tell them to go and get stuffed. There are many husbands and wives out there but you only have 1 or 2 parents.

Simple answer...

My mother is an RN. When my grandmother was sick (story above) she took out another mortage to build on to the house. Quit her job to give 24 hour care, that she could do (and give more meds, care, etc because of her education) better than most. I am a stay at home mom and helped relieve her when she needed it. Due to circumstances, uncontrollable pain (the hospital can give more pain meds efficiently that are not allowed free use in home) mobility issues (when one weighs 100 lbs. it is difficult to move larger amounts of dead weight), along with other heart issues (when severe chest pains require ambulance calls 3 to 4 times a week) it is not always a viable option. For the safety of the family member sometimes it is best.

So never ASSume one just doesn't want to do it. Hospice type care often involves more than feeding and wiping an arse as you put it. To want to care for them and not be able to is HEARTBREAKING.

I have been there.

reply to post by sugarcookie1


Why give up, keep fighting!

reply to post by sugarcookie1


Ummmm.........All religion aside, the question should instead be, who does your life belong to?.......I'm of the opinion, that your life belongs solely, to you. Granted, there are some that might lay claim to your life, spouse/partner, children, the state, however, ultimately your life is your own. No one, can task you with living, or assign an arbitrary time-span for you. If life is too unbearable or boring then the decision to leave it is yours alone.
The most that can be said is that such a decision might be selfish and lack consideration for others that cling to you, out of emotion.
I cannot attribute goodness or badness to such a decision, nor can I disparage another, for making a decision that is purely appropriate to them and them alone.


YouSir

reply to post by sugarcookie1


I always thought it strange that your family can decide if its time for you to die IE Pulling the life support. But we as individuals can't make the decision ourselves. What if your family get's lots of money If you die. Or they simply don't like you. It's really stupid. Like suicide is illegal.lol WTF? Do we really need that law? We're going to punish someone if they try to kill themselves and screw it up

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

I understand but in my situation we hired a crane lifter and the community nurses taught me how to use it and also supplied a stomach pump system. I am of the Chinese mind where to care for parents at home is natural. I understand your situation you did well and forgive me for my anger but there are just too many selfish people who let their parents rot in a nursing home to suffer indignity and lack of love. Paid nurses do not love your parents like a family member does but love in this world is fading or fleating and morals are decaying. What we do for our parents and loved ones will be done to you. This is my opinion

reply to post by sugarcookie1


IMO Anyone that wants to die at any point should have the right. Refusing someone this right to me just causes more problems than it's worth. If someone wants to die they are in some form of pain that is so bad they can no longer take it - let them go, it is often the selfishness of the living that keeps them here.

No point in them:
Using up earths resources
Potentially costing the taxpayer
Potentially being a medicated zombie
Taking others with them in a moment of emotion.
Making it unpleasent for other (clean up crew etc)
and Living a life of pain

Edit to add: We claim we are a free society but in a truely free system of Law there is always supposed to be a prosecutor and a defense. Crimes agaist ones self are not a crime in a free system because you are free to do as you please - if that means drugs, sex, self harm, suicde so be it, it is your personal choice and your right, but when your right infringes on anothers right it becomes a crime. Too bad our system locks people up for these crimes, costing the tax payer huge amounts of money to support these "criminals" living behind bars, when some of them were only hurting themselves.

Originally posted by Kangaruex4Ewe
reply to post by sugarcookie1

 

Sadly she did. She made it to 25 with a damned good fight. We were thick as thieves from 6 years up.

And you are more than welcome. Knowing what you are going through, my heart goes out to you. The invititation is always open. I am up until the wee hours of the morning most of the time. Anytime is an ok time.

Thank you your a night owl like me..and im sorry about your friend im sure she was a fighter..

Originally posted by dizzie_lizzie79
reply to post by sugarcookie1

 

I feel the exact same way! How can a society decide it is ok to put a suffering pet down that can't make that choice for themselves tell people that are terminally ill that they can not have that choice?? It makes absolutely no sense to me!

If your dieing anyway and suffering beyond control of meds. as long as a person is in their right mind and can still make those decisions for themselves I see absolutely nothing wrong with it at all!!! Not only are you dieing a slow agonizing death but your family and other loved ones have to sit there feeling helpless and watch you die little by little, day by day.

edit on 3-4-2011 by dizzie_lizzie79 because: mis spelling

I feel the same way.. why make someone suffer plus putting family through it all ..thank you for your reply

reply to post by shroudnews77


No forgiveness needed if you allow for severe circumstances.

My mother and I , along with most people I know feel as you do.

If it is in any way possible to care for your parents when the time comes it should be done. 100%. I could not agree more if you paid me to. My husband and I are of the same mind. Both of us are willing to take care of our parents when that point comes. My mother in law and I are completely different, but I love her as my husband's mother and would care for her as well as I would my own mother. He would do the same for mine.

Any care given, time devoted, or financial losses, should not factor into the equation IMO. Your parents gave much, sacrificed much, and loved much, while raising you. (Atleast I hope so). They deserve no less in their time of need.

That is of course if they were good parents. I guess (for some) it may be different depending on what they endured during childhood. A pedophile father that constantly raped his daughter may find he is safer and better cared for in a home. Barring circumstances like that, I concur every effort should be made to keep the care at home.

My husband has two older sisters who will rush to do this, so odds are we will not have to take his in. I have an older alcoholic brother whom can't be depended on to show up for a free meal, so I know that if my parents live long enough I will be the ONLY alternative to a nursing home. And while my mother says she wants to be in a home so she isn't a burden... she knows she will reside with me as long as humanly possible if I have to drag her here kicking and screaming.

Jeez. Am I the only one who has shed a tear and become emotional reading and participating in his whole thread? Tough questions and tough times to think about for sure...

To those who consider suicide selfish, I ask...

Is it not selfish to keep a person in this world who does not wish to remain in this world, life goes on regardless and the only reason you don't want them to leave is the pain you're worried of suffering yourself from the loss, which is selfish in itself.

To those who consider suicide an illness...

While it may be true in some cases that the person is mentally ill, if they can function just fine and talk coherently and intelligently maybe they are just sick of the world we live in and not sick within themselves is not a logical choice to allow them to die on their own terms ? If you don't like certain foods you don't eat them, if you don't like life you should have the choice to either change it or end it.

To those who consider suicide wrong on religious idealism...

If the person does not subscribe to your religious beliefs then leave them the hell alone and let them live their life free as they want to, as long as they aren't harming anyone in their suicide (emotional pain does not count see above) then they should have that choice and don't forget this is what free will is all about, making concious decisions in life!

I personally believe everyone should the right to choose their end, we have no choice in being born but we should be able to choose when we die!