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There is no hell
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I was brought up a good christian, I believed in the fires of hell just as the preacher had taught me.
He would always say "Do you want to burn in a fire forever and ever for all eternity without ever having hope of getting out? Then if you know whats good for you, you will stay in this church and sin not"
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1a88c88da89a.jpg[/atsimg]
Kinda scary when you think about it.
But now that I am older and can do my own research thanks to the internet, I know this was not true and just a scare tactic used by the church to keep you in line.
I strongly dislike churches and people who preach hell in the way it was preached to me, and in my view is a crime.
The fact is - There is no hell.
Most bibles have replaced older words with the word hell and that is where the confusion comes from.
Have a look at what hell really means.
Sheol - Place of the dead
In the King James Bible, the Old Testament term Sheol is translated as "Hell" 31 times. However, Sheol was translated as "the grave" 31 other times. Sheol is also translated as "the pit" three times.
Modern translations, however, do not translate Sheol as "Hell" at all, instead rendering it "the grave," "the pit," or "death."
Hades - Realm of the dead
Hades is the Greek word traditionally used for the Hebrew word Sheol in such works as the Septuagint, the Greek translations of the Hebrew Bible. Like other first-century Jews literate in Greek, Christian writers of the New Testament followed this use. While earlier translations most often translated Hades as "hell", as does the King James Version, modern translations use the transliteration "Hades", or render the word as allusions "to the grave", "among the dead", "place of the dead" and many other like statements in other verses.
Abaddon - Destruction
The Hebrew word Abaddon, meaning "destruction", is sometimes used as a synonym of Hell.
Infernus - Being underneath
The Latin word infernus means "being underneath" and is often translated as "Hell"
Tartarus
Appearing only in II Peter 2:4 in the New Testament, both early and modern translations often translate Tartarus as "Hell." Again
And now this one, which is very important to read for the subject.
Gehenna
In the New Testament, both early (i.e. the KJV) and modern translations often translate Gehenna as "Hell."
A geographic location just outside Jerusalem (the Valley of Hinnom).
Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a real worldly garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed.
Now, I was going to wrote this up myself, but I found an article that explained everything well, so I'm just going to paste it here for you to read.
Source
There appear to be many passages which would make hell appear to be a place of non-existence. For many years, Christians held the belief that hell is a place of fiery torment. A place where the dead receive their just punishment. Luke 16:23-31 speaks of a rich man who went into hell and looked up to heaven and spoke with Abraham, asking him to ease his suffering. Another passage; Matthew 13:42 states “And throw them into the furnace and burn them.” Certainly these passages are frightening and noteworthy. Instilling in us a fear of eternal torture and punishment for our wrong doings in life.
Often ignored and overlooked are two things: the history and deeper meanings of these passages, and the passages which clearly refer to hell as a place of non-existence and bodily decay. To examine further some of the passages referring to hell as a place of torment, let us consider the following passages.
A word often used in scripture in reference to hell is Gehenna. Gehennas' true meaning has been forgotten by the passage of time. Gehenna was a well-known location in the time of Christ. Contrary to popular belief, Gehenna was not a place of other worldly fiery torment. Gehenna was a location just outside of Jerusalem.
Gehenna was a garbage dump. Used by Jews of the time to get rid of, or destroy things. Gehenna was a place to cast ones garbage, dead and diseased bodies, the bodies of criminals, and other refuse. In order to ensure complete and utter destruction, the Jews kept the fires of Gehenna always burning. Often fueling the fires with sulfur. Gehenna was a large valley often resembling, because of its size, a “burning lake of fire”. Many things aside from garbage were thrown into Gehenna. Often, the bodies of diseased dead people were thrown into Gehenna to ensure the diseases utter destruction and removal from populated areas. Also commonly thrown into the fires were the bodies of criminals, seen as a somewhat cleansing of society by utterly destroying the offenders. The fires of Gehenna were kept perpetually burning to utterly consume the corrupt things which were thrown into it.
When Christ was referring to Gehenna, He was therefore not referring to a place one goes after death. Gehenna would have been an inappropriate word to use to describe such a place. As those who would have heard him use this reference would not have associated it with an afterwordly place of punishment. They certainly would have associated it with the burning garbage dump.
See Matthew 10:28 28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.”
See James 3:6 “And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by Gehenna.”
See Luke 12:5 "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you, fear Him!”
See Matthew 5:22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into Gehenna.”
All or many of these passages refer to Gehenna as a place that one is “cast into”, and as a place of fire. Matthew 10:28 clearly states that the soul will be destroyed there.
Still another word frequently used in scripture where the dead go is Sheol. Sheol is the Hebrew word roughly translated as “the abode of the dead”, sometimes translated as “underworld”, “grave”, or “pit”.
The word Sheol was commonly used to denote not an afterlife of punishment and torment, but the earthly grave. The place where the body, not the soul goes.
Some of the earliest scriptures mentioning Sheol speak of it as a place where all undoubtedly go. In Genesis 37:35, Jacob does not question whether he will go there when hew says:
“All his sons and daughters came to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. "No," he said, "in mourning will I go down to Sheol to my son." So his father wept for him.”
Again Jacob says:
Genesis 42:38; “But Jacob said, "My son shall not go down with you; for his brother is dead, and he alone is left If harm should befall him on the journey you are taking, then you will bring my gray hair down to Sheol in sorrow."
Job 7:9 "When a cloud vanishes, it is gone, So he who goes down to Sheol does not come up.”
In Job 17:16, "Will it go down with me to Sheol? Shall we together go down into the dust?" Job clearly compares it to returning to dust.
Psalms 9:17 is noteworthy when it says: “The wicked will return to Sheol, Even all the nations who forget God.”
What is noteworthy about this passage is that it says nothing of those people who “forget god” being thrown into a place of fiery torment. They seemingly receive the same treatment as righteous men of the bible like Jacob and Job.
Very noteworthy is Psalms 49:14-15 “As sheep they are appointed for Sheol; Death shall be their shepherd; And the upright shall rule over them in the morning, And their form shall be for Sheol to consume So that they have no habitation. 15But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol, For He will receive me.”
Many passages refer to both the righteous and unrighteous going to Sheol. Job speaks almost positively of it when he says in: Job 14:13 "Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me!”
Certainly Job would not prefer the torments of a fiery hell to his unfortunate circumstances on earth.
Most passages in the Old Testament use the word Sheol. Likewise, most passages in the New Testament use the word Gehenna, sometimes “Hades“, which will be examined later. Still up for observation are the scriptures that clearly state hell as a place of inactivity, or a place where nothing happens other than bodily decay.
Psalms 16:10 is one of these many passages when it says: “For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol; nor will you allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.”
Perhaps one of the most convincing passages may be found in psalms 104:29: “You hide your face, they are dismayed; you take away their spirit, they expire and return to their dust.”
A commonly held belief is that God is the embodiment of life. Many passages refer to heaven as eternal life with god.
Ezekiel 18:4-20 is noteworthy here. V 5-9 speaks of a man who is very righteous. V9 states: “He follows my decrees and faithfully keeps my laws. That man is righteous; he will surely live, declares the Sovereign LORD.”
V 10-13 speaks of a man, who is very unrighteous and sinful, V 13 states: “He lends money on interest and takes increase; will he live? He will not live! He has committed all these abominations, he will surely be put to death; his blood will be on his own head.”
Psalms 164:4 clearly states: “His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.”
Acts 2:31 states “Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay.”
Origins of the idea of hell being a place of fiery torment
Among the many words used in scripture to refer to hell, there are Gehenna, Sheol, Tartarus, and Hades. Our “Hell” is nothing but a mistranslation of these words.
The word “hell” appears nowhere in ancient biblical texts and is a mistranslation provided for us by non other than Martin Luther who translated scripture into German in the early sixteenth century. Martin Luther translated the word “Hades” into hell (German Hölle). The underworld in Norse mythology was ruled by the goddess Hel. The place was also called Hel.
We have already covered the meanings behind the words “Gehenna”, and “Sheol”. But what of “Tartarus”, and “Hades“?
Like “Hel” in Norse mythology, “Hades” is the ancient Greek abode of the dead and the god of that underworld.
The word “Hades” is used exclusively in the New Testament, and is obviously of Greek influence. Certainly Hades did not come to exist as soon as the Jews made contact with the Greeks. Certainly the Jews of the time did not ascribe to the Greek ideas of hell. To do so would be counter productive to their ideal. Neither would Jesus allow paganism to influence or be a part of his teachings.
The word Hades in Greek translates into “Hidden”, or “unseen”. And was probably used by Christ in place of Sheol. Also noteworthy is that the gospels were written in Greek. So naturally, the word Hades would have been used in place of “Sheol”. It may have been that while speaking Aramaic, Christ did use the word “Sheol” which was then translated into “Hades” in the Greek scriptures.
The word Tartarus is used only once in 2 peter 2:4 to describe a place where sinning angels go. It may be noted that Tartarus appears to be a place that is temporary.
2 peter 2:4: “For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to Tartarus, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment.”
Despite this essay and its biblical references, It should be noted that scripture can be interpreted in many ways. Consider the numerous denominations involved in Christianity. Who is to say what Christ ultimately meant when he used such words as Sheol, Gehenna and Hades or what ancient Jews understood these places to represent? Despite the fact that Gehenna was a fiery garbage dump, who can say 2000 years later what was meant by such phrases as “the will be cast into Gehenna.” Only one man who lived 2000 years ago knows the ultimate truth, which we shall all become aware of at our moment of passing.
He would always say "Do you want to burn in a fire forever and ever for all eternity without ever having hope of getting out? Then if you know whats good for you, you will stay in this church and sin not"
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1a88c88da89a.jpg[/atsimg]
Kinda scary when you think about it.
But now that I am older and can do my own research thanks to the internet, I know this was not true and just a scare tactic used by the church to keep you in line.
I strongly dislike churches and people who preach hell in the way it was preached to me, and in my view is a crime.
The fact is - There is no hell.
Most bibles have replaced older words with the word hell and that is where the confusion comes from.
Have a look at what hell really means.
Sheol - Place of the dead
In the King James Bible, the Old Testament term Sheol is translated as "Hell" 31 times. However, Sheol was translated as "the grave" 31 other times. Sheol is also translated as "the pit" three times.
Modern translations, however, do not translate Sheol as "Hell" at all, instead rendering it "the grave," "the pit," or "death."
Hades - Realm of the dead
Hades is the Greek word traditionally used for the Hebrew word Sheol in such works as the Septuagint, the Greek translations of the Hebrew Bible. Like other first-century Jews literate in Greek, Christian writers of the New Testament followed this use. While earlier translations most often translated Hades as "hell", as does the King James Version, modern translations use the transliteration "Hades", or render the word as allusions "to the grave", "among the dead", "place of the dead" and many other like statements in other verses.
Abaddon - Destruction
The Hebrew word Abaddon, meaning "destruction", is sometimes used as a synonym of Hell.
Infernus - Being underneath
The Latin word infernus means "being underneath" and is often translated as "Hell"
Tartarus
Appearing only in II Peter 2:4 in the New Testament, both early and modern translations often translate Tartarus as "Hell." Again
And now this one, which is very important to read for the subject.
Gehenna
In the New Testament, both early (i.e. the KJV) and modern translations often translate Gehenna as "Hell."
A geographic location just outside Jerusalem (the Valley of Hinnom).
Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a real worldly garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed.
Now, I was going to wrote this up myself, but I found an article that explained everything well, so I'm just going to paste it here for you to read.
Source
There appear to be many passages which would make hell appear to be a place of non-existence. For many years, Christians held the belief that hell is a place of fiery torment. A place where the dead receive their just punishment. Luke 16:23-31 speaks of a rich man who went into hell and looked up to heaven and spoke with Abraham, asking him to ease his suffering. Another passage; Matthew 13:42 states “And throw them into the furnace and burn them.” Certainly these passages are frightening and noteworthy. Instilling in us a fear of eternal torture and punishment for our wrong doings in life.
Often ignored and overlooked are two things: the history and deeper meanings of these passages, and the passages which clearly refer to hell as a place of non-existence and bodily decay. To examine further some of the passages referring to hell as a place of torment, let us consider the following passages.
A word often used in scripture in reference to hell is Gehenna. Gehennas' true meaning has been forgotten by the passage of time. Gehenna was a well-known location in the time of Christ. Contrary to popular belief, Gehenna was not a place of other worldly fiery torment. Gehenna was a location just outside of Jerusalem.
Gehenna was a garbage dump. Used by Jews of the time to get rid of, or destroy things. Gehenna was a place to cast ones garbage, dead and diseased bodies, the bodies of criminals, and other refuse. In order to ensure complete and utter destruction, the Jews kept the fires of Gehenna always burning. Often fueling the fires with sulfur. Gehenna was a large valley often resembling, because of its size, a “burning lake of fire”. Many things aside from garbage were thrown into Gehenna. Often, the bodies of diseased dead people were thrown into Gehenna to ensure the diseases utter destruction and removal from populated areas. Also commonly thrown into the fires were the bodies of criminals, seen as a somewhat cleansing of society by utterly destroying the offenders. The fires of Gehenna were kept perpetually burning to utterly consume the corrupt things which were thrown into it.
When Christ was referring to Gehenna, He was therefore not referring to a place one goes after death. Gehenna would have been an inappropriate word to use to describe such a place. As those who would have heard him use this reference would not have associated it with an afterwordly place of punishment. They certainly would have associated it with the burning garbage dump.
See Matthew 10:28 28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.”
See James 3:6 “And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by Gehenna.”
See Luke 12:5 "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you, fear Him!”
See Matthew 5:22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into Gehenna.”
All or many of these passages refer to Gehenna as a place that one is “cast into”, and as a place of fire. Matthew 10:28 clearly states that the soul will be destroyed there.
Still another word frequently used in scripture where the dead go is Sheol. Sheol is the Hebrew word roughly translated as “the abode of the dead”, sometimes translated as “underworld”, “grave”, or “pit”.
The word Sheol was commonly used to denote not an afterlife of punishment and torment, but the earthly grave. The place where the body, not the soul goes.
Some of the earliest scriptures mentioning Sheol speak of it as a place where all undoubtedly go. In Genesis 37:35, Jacob does not question whether he will go there when hew says:
“All his sons and daughters came to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. "No," he said, "in mourning will I go down to Sheol to my son." So his father wept for him.”
Again Jacob says:
Genesis 42:38; “But Jacob said, "My son shall not go down with you; for his brother is dead, and he alone is left If harm should befall him on the journey you are taking, then you will bring my gray hair down to Sheol in sorrow."
Job 7:9 "When a cloud vanishes, it is gone, So he who goes down to Sheol does not come up.”
In Job 17:16, "Will it go down with me to Sheol? Shall we together go down into the dust?" Job clearly compares it to returning to dust.
Psalms 9:17 is noteworthy when it says: “The wicked will return to Sheol, Even all the nations who forget God.”
What is noteworthy about this passage is that it says nothing of those people who “forget god” being thrown into a place of fiery torment. They seemingly receive the same treatment as righteous men of the bible like Jacob and Job.
Very noteworthy is Psalms 49:14-15 “As sheep they are appointed for Sheol; Death shall be their shepherd; And the upright shall rule over them in the morning, And their form shall be for Sheol to consume So that they have no habitation. 15But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol, For He will receive me.”
Many passages refer to both the righteous and unrighteous going to Sheol. Job speaks almost positively of it when he says in: Job 14:13 "Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me!”
Certainly Job would not prefer the torments of a fiery hell to his unfortunate circumstances on earth.
Most passages in the Old Testament use the word Sheol. Likewise, most passages in the New Testament use the word Gehenna, sometimes “Hades“, which will be examined later. Still up for observation are the scriptures that clearly state hell as a place of inactivity, or a place where nothing happens other than bodily decay.
Psalms 16:10 is one of these many passages when it says: “For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol; nor will you allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.”
Perhaps one of the most convincing passages may be found in psalms 104:29: “You hide your face, they are dismayed; you take away their spirit, they expire and return to their dust.”
A commonly held belief is that God is the embodiment of life. Many passages refer to heaven as eternal life with god.
Ezekiel 18:4-20 is noteworthy here. V 5-9 speaks of a man who is very righteous. V9 states: “He follows my decrees and faithfully keeps my laws. That man is righteous; he will surely live, declares the Sovereign LORD.”
V 10-13 speaks of a man, who is very unrighteous and sinful, V 13 states: “He lends money on interest and takes increase; will he live? He will not live! He has committed all these abominations, he will surely be put to death; his blood will be on his own head.”
Psalms 164:4 clearly states: “His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.”
Acts 2:31 states “Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay.”
Origins of the idea of hell being a place of fiery torment
Among the many words used in scripture to refer to hell, there are Gehenna, Sheol, Tartarus, and Hades. Our “Hell” is nothing but a mistranslation of these words.
The word “hell” appears nowhere in ancient biblical texts and is a mistranslation provided for us by non other than Martin Luther who translated scripture into German in the early sixteenth century. Martin Luther translated the word “Hades” into hell (German Hölle). The underworld in Norse mythology was ruled by the goddess Hel. The place was also called Hel.
We have already covered the meanings behind the words “Gehenna”, and “Sheol”. But what of “Tartarus”, and “Hades“?
Like “Hel” in Norse mythology, “Hades” is the ancient Greek abode of the dead and the god of that underworld.
The word “Hades” is used exclusively in the New Testament, and is obviously of Greek influence. Certainly Hades did not come to exist as soon as the Jews made contact with the Greeks. Certainly the Jews of the time did not ascribe to the Greek ideas of hell. To do so would be counter productive to their ideal. Neither would Jesus allow paganism to influence or be a part of his teachings.
The word Hades in Greek translates into “Hidden”, or “unseen”. And was probably used by Christ in place of Sheol. Also noteworthy is that the gospels were written in Greek. So naturally, the word Hades would have been used in place of “Sheol”. It may have been that while speaking Aramaic, Christ did use the word “Sheol” which was then translated into “Hades” in the Greek scriptures.
The word Tartarus is used only once in 2 peter 2:4 to describe a place where sinning angels go. It may be noted that Tartarus appears to be a place that is temporary.
2 peter 2:4: “For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to Tartarus, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment.”
Despite this essay and its biblical references, It should be noted that scripture can be interpreted in many ways. Consider the numerous denominations involved in Christianity. Who is to say what Christ ultimately meant when he used such words as Sheol, Gehenna and Hades or what ancient Jews understood these places to represent? Despite the fact that Gehenna was a fiery garbage dump, who can say 2000 years later what was meant by such phrases as “the will be cast into Gehenna.” Only one man who lived 2000 years ago knows the ultimate truth, which we shall all become aware of at our moment of passing.
There is no hell in the Christian religion! its Pagan and Hel is actually a goddess in Norse mythology.
There is no hell at all, period. No heaven, no hell, no gods, no goddesses, no angels, no demons, no fairies, no goblins, no magical entities
whatsoever. Your body is buried in a graveyard and that's the end of it. I've seen evidence for ghosts and even experienced them personally, but
I'm not even sure that everyone becomes ghosts after they die. Some do, some don't and some of the sightings aren't real while the rest are real
and unexplained. If there is even an afterlife at all, it seems to exist only on this planet and only within the electromagnetic spectrum. The only
way any type of heaven could exist is if it's a paradise planet where everything is perfect (which is impossible). The only way any type of hell
could exist is if it's a chaotic planet where everything is destructive and nothing can survive its hostile environment. Someone could somehow reach
the core of the Earth and figure out how to imprison ghosts there, but that's highly improbable. However, reaching the core of the Sun and throwing
ghosts in there sounds completely impossible and makes the previous theory sound a bit more likely. Anyways, there's no such thing as a supernatural
hell. I'm absolutely certain that the inner cores of the hottest stars in the universe (blue hypergiants) are many millions of times hotter than any
superstitious creation in any religious book. Those are the true hells.
reply to post by Condemned0625
lol ghost none of it is real aliens include thanks for your time
nihilist
lol ghost none of it is real aliens include thanks for your time
nihilist
reply to post by FoxfilesMulder
If there is fire.. than it is to burn you to ash, Similar like Sodom en Gomorra. Well, most of your body is water, so, in a few seconds you're
away. It's quite easy.. if you don't want to be a crewmember of Christ Jesus, you will be a member of satan... and they call him Baal Sebub what
mean Lord of flies.. so he is dead and they are dead too.
All references to hell, heaven and god are very quickly assumed to be after death. Death being something none of us will ever know about, because we
are life.
All death, heaven, hell and god appear to us in life. How could they appear any other time?
If hell is believed in it will be experienced in life. 'Poor me, my life is hell.'
Death is only seen by life (live people).
And god (which to me is consciousness, awareness, being, this, isness), can only be experienced now.
We walk in the valley of death.
This (which seems to be) very slim valley of now is all there is. The slopes on the sides of now (the valley), if we can entertain the thought, are past and future. All suffering is caused when we spend our time in the darkness of not now, on the slopes of the valley. Light that is experienced in this moment can not be seen or felt when we dwell in illusions of the past or future. Life can only be experienced here, now. So death is in the mind of past and future. Yet it is not death as such, it is just the denial of life. Denying life this way feels like hell.
Choose life, choose heaven. Or choose mind made hell.
All death, heaven, hell and god appear to us in life. How could they appear any other time?
If hell is believed in it will be experienced in life. 'Poor me, my life is hell.'
Death is only seen by life (live people).
And god (which to me is consciousness, awareness, being, this, isness), can only be experienced now.
We walk in the valley of death.
This (which seems to be) very slim valley of now is all there is. The slopes on the sides of now (the valley), if we can entertain the thought, are past and future. All suffering is caused when we spend our time in the darkness of not now, on the slopes of the valley. Light that is experienced in this moment can not be seen or felt when we dwell in illusions of the past or future. Life can only be experienced here, now. So death is in the mind of past and future. Yet it is not death as such, it is just the denial of life. Denying life this way feels like hell.
Choose life, choose heaven. Or choose mind made hell.
There is only ever now.
We make up stories about tomorrow and yesterday. We believe stories told to us by friends, co workers, teachers, religions. We hear a word and make up stories about it, when we have absolutely no idea what we are talking about.
One day we will have to admit that we know absolutely nothing about everything. What does the word nothing refer to? Or the word everything?
Start at the beginning.
Let go of everything that you think you know. Because it is all hear say. All beliefs, all ideas and concepts are stories that you have believed but don't really know for sure if they are true or not. That's why we come to these sites to seek for truth, we feel we haven't got it yet, but we know the truth is out there, lol.
What do we absolutely know for certain?
There is only one thing we know for sure, all answers welcome.
We make up stories about tomorrow and yesterday. We believe stories told to us by friends, co workers, teachers, religions. We hear a word and make up stories about it, when we have absolutely no idea what we are talking about.
One day we will have to admit that we know absolutely nothing about everything. What does the word nothing refer to? Or the word everything?
Start at the beginning.
Let go of everything that you think you know. Because it is all hear say. All beliefs, all ideas and concepts are stories that you have believed but don't really know for sure if they are true or not. That's why we come to these sites to seek for truth, we feel we haven't got it yet, but we know the truth is out there, lol.
What do we absolutely know for certain?
There is only one thing we know for sure, all answers welcome.
reply to post by FoxfilesMulder
I think Iif I had a birds eye view of the Earth, it would look alot liek hell these days
I think Iif I had a birds eye view of the Earth, it would look alot liek hell these days
reply to post by Condemned0625
Also having some experiences similar to what you mention, and following the same lines of reasoning as you do, I find your conclusions very sound; though I will personally not go to the opposite (non-theist) extreme of positivistic claim non-existence of a non-mundane world.
Also having some experiences similar to what you mention, and following the same lines of reasoning as you do, I find your conclusions very sound; though I will personally not go to the opposite (non-theist) extreme of positivistic claim non-existence of a non-mundane world.
reply to post by bogomil
There may be other dimensions, but those dimensions also exist in reality as this one does. The heaven and hell concepts are claimed to be worlds that are beyond ethereal existence, which implies that they are outside of reality. There is no such thing as existence beyond reality. All that exists is real, therefore it is within reality. The heavens and hells that are mentioned in religious books do not exist.
There may be other dimensions, but those dimensions also exist in reality as this one does. The heaven and hell concepts are claimed to be worlds that are beyond ethereal existence, which implies that they are outside of reality. There is no such thing as existence beyond reality. All that exists is real, therefore it is within reality. The heavens and hells that are mentioned in religious books do not exist.
reply to post by Condemned0625
You wrote:
["There may be other dimensions, but those dimensions also exist in reality as this one does."]
Agreed.
Quote: ["There is no such thing as existence beyond reality. All that exists is real, therefore it is within reality."]
Personally I wouldn't presume to have more than speculations on 'reality'. Especially not if 'reality' means 'ultimate reality'.
Quote: ["The heavens and hells that are mentioned in religious books do not exist."]
I would classify these as being the results of personal speculations, which is fine with me. The problem is, when they are being enforced as exclusive and monopolistic 'absolutes'.
You wrote:
["There may be other dimensions, but those dimensions also exist in reality as this one does."]
Agreed.
Quote: ["There is no such thing as existence beyond reality. All that exists is real, therefore it is within reality."]
Personally I wouldn't presume to have more than speculations on 'reality'. Especially not if 'reality' means 'ultimate reality'.
Quote: ["The heavens and hells that are mentioned in religious books do not exist."]
I would classify these as being the results of personal speculations, which is fine with me. The problem is, when they are being enforced as exclusive and monopolistic 'absolutes'.
The Bible continually warns of a place called hell. There are over 162 references in the New Testament alone which warns of hell. And over 70 of these
references were uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ!
In Luke 16, Jesus Christ gives a frightening picture of hell:
22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:22-28)
HELL IS A PLACE OF FIRE
The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME."
In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."
Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE."
THE BIBLE GIVES THE LOCATION OF HELL
When Jesus Christ died on the cross, He descended into hell. In Acts 2, Peter is speaking, verse 31, " . . . seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in HELL"
When Jesus Christ died His soul went into hell.
And in Matthew 12:40, Jesus Christ says:
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly: so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the HEART OF THE EARTH. "
The Bible is clear — Hell is inside the earth!
Ephesians 4:9, says of Jesus: "Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH.""So far as we can tell from Scripture, the present hell, is somewhere in the heart of the earth itself. It is also called 'the pit' (Isa. 14:9, 15: Ezek. 32:18-21) and 'the abyss' (Rev. 9:2). . .YES! THERE IS A PLACE CALLED HELL!
In Numbers 16, the Bible gives the account of people falling into hell alive!
"And THE EARTH OPENED HER MOUTH, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive INTO THE PIT, and the EARTH CLOSED UPON THEM:" Numbers 16:32-33. Scientists recently discovered cracks on the ocean floor where fire was leaking out. Do you know what they found around these fire-breathing vents in the crust? Eight-foot long worms, found no other place in the world! The book, The Deep Sea, by Joseph Wallace (p.39), reads, "Perhaps the strangest of ocean creatures recently discovered are Riftia, the giant tube WORMS. Measuring up to 8 feet in length, the worms are ONLY FOUND NEAR DEEP SEA VENTS."
And Jesus Christ said, "Where THEIR WORM dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
Have you read Isaiah 66 where the Lord Jesus Christ is quoting Mark 9:46?
Look at the context and time period of Isaiah 66:22-24:
Isaiah 66:22-24:
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
The "new heavens and new earth" of Isaiah 66:22 matches Revelation 21:1. This occurs AFTER the Great White Throne Judgement of Revelation 20:10-15! The references to "carcases"; "their worm"; "their fire" (vs 24) — is AFTER the Great White Throne Judgement of the LOST people! The reference to ". . the men that have transgressed. . ." are the LOST people AFTER the Great White Throne Judgement.
And at this point — they have received their NEW BODY! Notice what Isaiah says, the saved people shall "LOOK upon the CARCASES of the men that have transgressed. . ." It's worth mentioning that a "carcase" is not always a "DEAD body". For instance, two times the Bible specifically uses the term "dead carcase" (Deut. 14:8 and Ezek 6:5). If a carcase is ALWAYS a "dead" body, then why say "dead" carcase? And there's NOTHING in the context of Isaiah to imply these "men that transgressed" are "dead".
In fact, Isaiah clearly says, "their worm shall NOT DIE". Even in our language, we refer to a living body as a "carcase". For example, "Get your carcase [body] in here". Why is that important? Because when the saved people in Isaiah 66:24 are "looking upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed" — And do you know what they are SEEING? "Their worm"! The "carcase" they are seeing is "their WORM that shall not die". The end of Isaiah 66:24 is a frightening endorsement of this interpretation. What the saved people are viewing Isaiah says is , ". . . an abhorring unto all flesh". And my friend, that is not JUST a normal flesh body they are looking at! It is something that will send chills screaming through your soul at the horror. And it will happen! Even though the world tries to extinguish the cries and reality of hell — the truth of hell echoes throughout our world. We desperately pretend to cover our ears and igonore the "screams, the weeping, the wailing, the gnashing of teeth" but it is there. . . And we know it. We refuse to accept such a place exist. But it is there. And we know it. Nothing we can do, nothing we can say, can erase the horror of hell from our minds. It is there. And we know it.
Revelation 14:10 says, " . . . and he shall be tormented with fire and BRIMSTONE . . ." And Job 18 describes the " . . . PLACE of him that knoweth not God" (vs 21), in verse 15 as, " . . . BRIMSTONE shall be scattered upon his habitation." Do you know what brimstone is? It's sulfur. And do you know where sulfur or brimstone is found? INSIDE THIS EARTH! According to the book Volcanoes by Pierre Kohler (p. 43), when Mt. St Helens erupted in 1980 — 150,000 tons of sulfurous gas was ejected! Job is the oldest book in the Bible, written over 3,000 years ago, and yet Job knew what science wouldn't know for years — inside this earth is BRIMSTONE! Jesus says of the man in Luke 16:
23 "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in TORMENTS. . . "
24 ". . . for I am TORMENTED in this FLAME."
28 ". . .PLACE OF TORMENT."
It is humanly impossible to comprehend the Bible description of hell. Nothing on earth can compare with it. No nightmare could produce a terror to match that of hell. No horror movie could describe it’s fright. No crime scene with all it’s blood and gore could begin to match it’s horror.
It will be beyond anything humanly imaginable!
The Bible warns in Psalm 9:17, you will not only be in hell — you will BE TURNED INTO HELL! You will literally BE HELL!
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Psalm 9:17
YOU will see HELL. . .
YOU will smell HELL. . .
YOU will breathe HELL. . .
YOU will hear HELL. . .
YOU will feel HELL. . .
YOU WILL BE HELL. . .
The Bible describes it as weeping (Matt 8:12), wailing (Matt 13:42), gnashing of teeth (Matt 13:50), darkness (Matt 25:30), flames (Luke 16:24), burning (Isa 33:14), torments (Luke 16:23), everlasting punishment! Jesus Christ says in Matthew 25:41, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels."
The Bible describes it as weeping (Matt 8:12), wailing (Matt 13:42), gnashing of teeth (Matt 13:50), darkness (Matt 25:30), flames (Luke 16:24), burning (Isa 33:14), torments (Luke 16:23), everlasting punishment! Jesus Christ says in Matthew 25:41, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels."
In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
HELL IS FOREVER!
All who enter hell — abandon all hope!
The horror of hell — for even one second is unbearable — but FOREVER!
Jesus says in Matthew 25:41: ". . . Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING fire, . . ."
Rev. 14:11: "The smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up for EVER AND EVER: and they have NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT."
Just look how the Bible warns of the eternity and permance of hell!
everlasting fire — Matthew18:8, 25:41
everlasting punishment — Matthew 25:46
everlasting chains — Jude 1:6
eternal damnation — Mark 3:29
eternal judgment — Hebrews 6:2
eternal fire — Jude 1:7
unquenchable fire — Matthew 3:12
the fire that never shall be quenched — Mark 9:43, 44, 45, 46, 48
fire unquenchable — Luke 3:17
mist of darkness is reserved for ever — 2 Peter 2:17
the blackness of darkness for ever — Jude 1:13 My friend, I have searched my Bible, from cover to cover. . . I have studied every occurrence of hell in my Bible — and I can not find one verse, not one word of HOPE for someone in hell! NOT ONE WORD! The rich man in hell in Luke 16 never even asks to get out — He knew there was no way out!
OH MY FRIEND – HELL IS FOREVER AND EVER!
What could possibly be worth eternity in hell? No wonder Jesus Christ warned so much about hell! No wonder Jesus said in Mark 8:36, "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and LOSE HIS OWN SOUL?"
I,Told you all I,WOULD SEARCH AND FIND THE FACTS,THEY ARE HERE,IN MANKIND AND IN THE BIBLE. I, AM NOT HERE TO PRESSURE YOU,BUT GOD AND JESUS DID WARN US...........WE HAVE THE FREEWILL TO CHOOSE. Jesus Christ took hell very serious. . .
Jesus Christ says in Mark 9:43-47,
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Jesus Christ took hell so serious — He could say without the slightest hesitation — to remove your eye, cut off your hand or foot, if that would keep you out of hell!
If hell is not real — Jesus Christ was the most deceived man that ever lived! How did Jesus describe hell?
Jesus Christ spoke more on hell than any other subject.
Just look at how Jesus described hell:
WHAT JESUS CHRIST SAYS ABOUT HELL!
"fire" Matt 7:19, 13:40, 25:41
"everlasting fire" Matt 18:8, 25:41
"eternal damnation" Mark 3:29
"hell fire" Matt 5:22, 18:9, Mark 9:47
"damnation" Matt 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47
"damnation of hell" Matt 23:33
"resurrection of damnation" John 5:29
"furnace of fire" Matt 13:42, 50
"the fire that never shall be quenched" Mark 9:43, 45
"the fire is not quenched" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"Where their worm dieth not" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"wailing and gnashing of teeth" Matt 13:42, 50
"weeping and gnashing of teeth" Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30
"torments" Luke 16:23
"tormented in this flame" Luke 16:24
"place of torment" Luke 16:28
"outer darkness" Matt 8:12, 22:13
"everlasting punishment" Matt 25:46
WHAT IF JESUS IS RIGHT? Are you really ready to ignore facts,these aren't ,just words. I,trust and believe in Jesus words and science even proves it. I,believe Jesus is right! He hasn't ever lied to us,He is perfect!
Hebrews 9:27 says, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGEMENT:"
it is appointed unto man once to die . . .
and one day — YOU will die . . .
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments . . .screaming . . .weeping. . . wailing. Terror and fear beyond anything you could imagine overtakes you. "This can’t be happening!" you scream. Your nostrils are filling with the awful stench of burning souls. Your face ignites from the heat. Flames are now blazing from your eyes, nostrils, ears, mouth — every opening in your body, flames are roaring out. Your body is sizzling and crackling from the flames.
Your body is now madly thrashing and convulsing from the horrible pain. "Why don’t I die?", you scream. You begin weeping and gnashing your teeth with the millions. "When will this pain stop?" But you know it will never stop. . .
The darkness is so terrifying, it begins engulfing you. You feel something moving in the darkness. . . something horrible is happening. "No! No! This can’t be happening" you scream — as your worm is emerging.
You begin cursing the day you were born. You scream — "Oh God, why didn’t you warn me?"— but you remember the preacher pleading with you to receive Jesus Christ. You remember reading that gospel tract. You cry — "God don’t you care?" — but you remember John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,. . ." "God is a God of love — He won't allow this", you cry — but you remember John 3:36, ". . . he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." SOON ALL MANKIND WILL KNOW,WATCH THE NEWS AND THE SKIES AND HEAVENS AND OUR PLANET AND SUN.....TIME IS IS HERE,TRUE, NO ONE KNOWS THE TIME OR DATE,ONLY GOD. But Jesus said look up ,and you shall SEE him coming. Remember you choose ,what you want to believe in,but my friends, God is a God of LOVE. . . Why would a GOD OF LOVE send me to hell? Yes, God is a GOD OF LOVE — but God is also a HOLY GOD. A HOLY GOD demands payment for sin. Otherwise God would NOT and could NOT be HOLY.
Because God is holy — sin MUST be condemned. Joshua 24:19 says, ". . he is an HOLY GOD;. . . he will NOT forgive your transgressions nor your sins."
BUT FRIEND I HAVE GOOD NEWS!
God does NOT want you in hell
Hell was not made for man. Matthew 25:41 says, hell was, ". . . prepared for the devil and his angels:"
Because God is a GOD OF LOVE, and He LOVED YOU so much, He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to this earth to die a cruel death on a cross to pay the price a HOLY GOD demands for your sins.
Romans 5:8 says, "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
God does not send someone to hell. You choose hell when you reject Jesus Christ. When you refuse God's love gift of eternal life in Jesus Christ. . .
YOU CHOOSE HELL!,IS THIS WHAT YOU REALLY WANT,I DON'T. I,CHOOSE HEAVEN!!!!! Jesus Christ said in Mark 8:36:
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?"Mark 8:36:
God has something far better than words can describe for those who love Him. I Corinthians 2:9 says:
". . . Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him."I Corinthians 2:9
Friend, there is a place called hell! And, if you continually refuse God's gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ — just as sure as you live and breathe — ONE DAY YOU WILL WAKE UP IN HELL!
Don't wait until you die to find out the truth about Hell! Tomorrow may be too late! Proverbs 27:1 says, "Boast not thyself of tomorrow: for thou KNOWEST NOT what a day may bring forth."
Three people die every second, 180 every minute, since you started reading this — 2000 more people have gone into eternity! An automobile accident. . . A heart attack. . , A stroke. . .One thing is CERTAIN — you will DIE — today. . . tomorrow . . . a week. . . a month . . . a year. . . 5 years. . . 10 years. . . 20 years. . . 50 years — ONE THING IS CERTAIN —" . . .it is appointed unto man once TO DIE . . ."
DON'T BE CAUGHT DEAD WITHOUT JESUS!
You may have made some terrible mistakes in your life. There may be some things in your life you would give anything to be able to change. But friend, I assure you — if you die without Jesus Christ — it'll be the worst mistake you could possibly make!
Has there ever come a time and a place in your life, when you received Jesus Christ as your personal Savior? My Friend its all up to you.I,am here if you need prayer or what to know more, Don't let anyone convince you that when you die it will be all over! The Bible says in Hebrews 9:27:
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGMENT." Hebrews 9:27
Revelation 20:15 says:
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE." Revelation 20:15
If you've never received Jesus Christ as your Savior, bow your head this minute and ask the Lord Jesus Christ to save you.Don't put it off another second!
NOTHING'S WORTH TAKING THE CHANCE!
It's simple to be saved ...
Realize you are a sinner.
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" Romans 3:10
"... for there is no difference. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; ..." Isaiah 64:6
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, ..." Titus 3:5, "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, ..." 1 Peter 2:24
"... Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," Revelation 1:5, But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12
" ...Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."" Acts 16:30,31
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16, My FAVORITE SCRIPTURE! I,believe in this scripture with ALL my whole being........... If you want to be saved,just tell him from your heart,open your HEART to him. Say the lords prayer.Its so simple,then find a good church that goes by the bible,Pray,Fast,and Read and Study your Bible,then be ready,look up our Jesus is coming,He loves us All,HE DOESN'T WANT TO LOSE ANY! F HE LOSES ANY ,ITS BECAUSE ITS OF WHAT WE CHOSE TO DO,WE WALKED AWAY FROM HIM.HE IS THE TRUTH,LIFE AND THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN! DON'T LET ANY ONE TELL YOU THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO HEAVEN,BECAUSE JESUS SAID THERE ISN'T! CHECK MY MEMBER PAGES TO SEE MY OTHER THOUGHTS......I.AM HERE TO PROCLAIM GODS TRUE WORD AND FACTS......I,DON'T JUDGE ONLY GOD DOES. I,DON'T PRESSURE,I JUST STATE THE FACTS AND TRUTH. I,LOOK FOR TRUTH AND FACTS,NOT WHAT MANKIND HAS TO TELL ME.I,LOOK EVERY WHERE FOR TRUTH AND FACTS. I,don't go by what every one says.Like I, said let me take you down a narrow path to God,I,DON'T TAKE THE WIDE ROAD,THAT IS DEATH,FROM HEAVEN. IN JESUS NAME AMEN,I LOVE YOU ALL,GODS GREATS COMMANDMENT,IS TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS HE LOVED US. SEEK AND YOU SHALL FIND HIM AND THE TRUTH AND THE WAY.
As you leave your body — you realize something is happening. You hear a sound. . . getting louder and louder.
In Luke 16, Jesus Christ gives a frightening picture of hell:
22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:22-28)
HELL IS A PLACE OF FIRE
The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME."
In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."
Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE."
THE BIBLE GIVES THE LOCATION OF HELL
When Jesus Christ died on the cross, He descended into hell. In Acts 2, Peter is speaking, verse 31, " . . . seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in HELL"
When Jesus Christ died His soul went into hell.
And in Matthew 12:40, Jesus Christ says:
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly: so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the HEART OF THE EARTH. "
The Bible is clear — Hell is inside the earth!
Ephesians 4:9, says of Jesus: "Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH.""So far as we can tell from Scripture, the present hell, is somewhere in the heart of the earth itself. It is also called 'the pit' (Isa. 14:9, 15: Ezek. 32:18-21) and 'the abyss' (Rev. 9:2). . .YES! THERE IS A PLACE CALLED HELL!
In Numbers 16, the Bible gives the account of people falling into hell alive!
"And THE EARTH OPENED HER MOUTH, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive INTO THE PIT, and the EARTH CLOSED UPON THEM:" Numbers 16:32-33. Scientists recently discovered cracks on the ocean floor where fire was leaking out. Do you know what they found around these fire-breathing vents in the crust? Eight-foot long worms, found no other place in the world! The book, The Deep Sea, by Joseph Wallace (p.39), reads, "Perhaps the strangest of ocean creatures recently discovered are Riftia, the giant tube WORMS. Measuring up to 8 feet in length, the worms are ONLY FOUND NEAR DEEP SEA VENTS."
And Jesus Christ said, "Where THEIR WORM dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
Have you read Isaiah 66 where the Lord Jesus Christ is quoting Mark 9:46?
Look at the context and time period of Isaiah 66:22-24:
Isaiah 66:22-24:
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
The "new heavens and new earth" of Isaiah 66:22 matches Revelation 21:1. This occurs AFTER the Great White Throne Judgement of Revelation 20:10-15! The references to "carcases"; "their worm"; "their fire" (vs 24) — is AFTER the Great White Throne Judgement of the LOST people! The reference to ". . the men that have transgressed. . ." are the LOST people AFTER the Great White Throne Judgement.
And at this point — they have received their NEW BODY! Notice what Isaiah says, the saved people shall "LOOK upon the CARCASES of the men that have transgressed. . ." It's worth mentioning that a "carcase" is not always a "DEAD body". For instance, two times the Bible specifically uses the term "dead carcase" (Deut. 14:8 and Ezek 6:5). If a carcase is ALWAYS a "dead" body, then why say "dead" carcase? And there's NOTHING in the context of Isaiah to imply these "men that transgressed" are "dead".
In fact, Isaiah clearly says, "their worm shall NOT DIE". Even in our language, we refer to a living body as a "carcase". For example, "Get your carcase [body] in here". Why is that important? Because when the saved people in Isaiah 66:24 are "looking upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed" — And do you know what they are SEEING? "Their worm"! The "carcase" they are seeing is "their WORM that shall not die". The end of Isaiah 66:24 is a frightening endorsement of this interpretation. What the saved people are viewing Isaiah says is , ". . . an abhorring unto all flesh". And my friend, that is not JUST a normal flesh body they are looking at! It is something that will send chills screaming through your soul at the horror. And it will happen! Even though the world tries to extinguish the cries and reality of hell — the truth of hell echoes throughout our world. We desperately pretend to cover our ears and igonore the "screams, the weeping, the wailing, the gnashing of teeth" but it is there. . . And we know it. We refuse to accept such a place exist. But it is there. And we know it. Nothing we can do, nothing we can say, can erase the horror of hell from our minds. It is there. And we know it.
Revelation 14:10 says, " . . . and he shall be tormented with fire and BRIMSTONE . . ." And Job 18 describes the " . . . PLACE of him that knoweth not God" (vs 21), in verse 15 as, " . . . BRIMSTONE shall be scattered upon his habitation." Do you know what brimstone is? It's sulfur. And do you know where sulfur or brimstone is found? INSIDE THIS EARTH! According to the book Volcanoes by Pierre Kohler (p. 43), when Mt. St Helens erupted in 1980 — 150,000 tons of sulfurous gas was ejected! Job is the oldest book in the Bible, written over 3,000 years ago, and yet Job knew what science wouldn't know for years — inside this earth is BRIMSTONE! Jesus says of the man in Luke 16:
23 "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in TORMENTS. . . "
24 ". . . for I am TORMENTED in this FLAME."
28 ". . .PLACE OF TORMENT."
It is humanly impossible to comprehend the Bible description of hell. Nothing on earth can compare with it. No nightmare could produce a terror to match that of hell. No horror movie could describe it’s fright. No crime scene with all it’s blood and gore could begin to match it’s horror.
It will be beyond anything humanly imaginable!
The Bible warns in Psalm 9:17, you will not only be in hell — you will BE TURNED INTO HELL! You will literally BE HELL!
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Psalm 9:17
YOU will see HELL. . .
YOU will smell HELL. . .
YOU will breathe HELL. . .
YOU will hear HELL. . .
YOU will feel HELL. . .
YOU WILL BE HELL. . .
The Bible describes it as weeping (Matt 8:12), wailing (Matt 13:42), gnashing of teeth (Matt 13:50), darkness (Matt 25:30), flames (Luke 16:24), burning (Isa 33:14), torments (Luke 16:23), everlasting punishment! Jesus Christ says in Matthew 25:41, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels."
The Bible describes it as weeping (Matt 8:12), wailing (Matt 13:42), gnashing of teeth (Matt 13:50), darkness (Matt 25:30), flames (Luke 16:24), burning (Isa 33:14), torments (Luke 16:23), everlasting punishment! Jesus Christ says in Matthew 25:41, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels."
In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
HELL IS FOREVER!
All who enter hell — abandon all hope!
The horror of hell — for even one second is unbearable — but FOREVER!
Jesus says in Matthew 25:41: ". . . Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING fire, . . ."
Rev. 14:11: "The smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up for EVER AND EVER: and they have NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT."
Just look how the Bible warns of the eternity and permance of hell!
everlasting fire — Matthew18:8, 25:41
everlasting punishment — Matthew 25:46
everlasting chains — Jude 1:6
eternal damnation — Mark 3:29
eternal judgment — Hebrews 6:2
eternal fire — Jude 1:7
unquenchable fire — Matthew 3:12
the fire that never shall be quenched — Mark 9:43, 44, 45, 46, 48
fire unquenchable — Luke 3:17
mist of darkness is reserved for ever — 2 Peter 2:17
the blackness of darkness for ever — Jude 1:13 My friend, I have searched my Bible, from cover to cover. . . I have studied every occurrence of hell in my Bible — and I can not find one verse, not one word of HOPE for someone in hell! NOT ONE WORD! The rich man in hell in Luke 16 never even asks to get out — He knew there was no way out!
OH MY FRIEND – HELL IS FOREVER AND EVER!
What could possibly be worth eternity in hell? No wonder Jesus Christ warned so much about hell! No wonder Jesus said in Mark 8:36, "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and LOSE HIS OWN SOUL?"
I,Told you all I,WOULD SEARCH AND FIND THE FACTS,THEY ARE HERE,IN MANKIND AND IN THE BIBLE. I, AM NOT HERE TO PRESSURE YOU,BUT GOD AND JESUS DID WARN US...........WE HAVE THE FREEWILL TO CHOOSE. Jesus Christ took hell very serious. . .
Jesus Christ says in Mark 9:43-47,
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Jesus Christ took hell so serious — He could say without the slightest hesitation — to remove your eye, cut off your hand or foot, if that would keep you out of hell!
If hell is not real — Jesus Christ was the most deceived man that ever lived! How did Jesus describe hell?
Jesus Christ spoke more on hell than any other subject.
Just look at how Jesus described hell:
WHAT JESUS CHRIST SAYS ABOUT HELL!
"fire" Matt 7:19, 13:40, 25:41
"everlasting fire" Matt 18:8, 25:41
"eternal damnation" Mark 3:29
"hell fire" Matt 5:22, 18:9, Mark 9:47
"damnation" Matt 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47
"damnation of hell" Matt 23:33
"resurrection of damnation" John 5:29
"furnace of fire" Matt 13:42, 50
"the fire that never shall be quenched" Mark 9:43, 45
"the fire is not quenched" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"Where their worm dieth not" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"wailing and gnashing of teeth" Matt 13:42, 50
"weeping and gnashing of teeth" Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30
"torments" Luke 16:23
"tormented in this flame" Luke 16:24
"place of torment" Luke 16:28
"outer darkness" Matt 8:12, 22:13
"everlasting punishment" Matt 25:46
WHAT IF JESUS IS RIGHT? Are you really ready to ignore facts,these aren't ,just words. I,trust and believe in Jesus words and science even proves it. I,believe Jesus is right! He hasn't ever lied to us,He is perfect!
Hebrews 9:27 says, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGEMENT:"
it is appointed unto man once to die . . .
and one day — YOU will die . . .
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments . . .screaming . . .weeping. . . wailing. Terror and fear beyond anything you could imagine overtakes you. "This can’t be happening!" you scream. Your nostrils are filling with the awful stench of burning souls. Your face ignites from the heat. Flames are now blazing from your eyes, nostrils, ears, mouth — every opening in your body, flames are roaring out. Your body is sizzling and crackling from the flames.
Your body is now madly thrashing and convulsing from the horrible pain. "Why don’t I die?", you scream. You begin weeping and gnashing your teeth with the millions. "When will this pain stop?" But you know it will never stop. . .
The darkness is so terrifying, it begins engulfing you. You feel something moving in the darkness. . . something horrible is happening. "No! No! This can’t be happening" you scream — as your worm is emerging.
You begin cursing the day you were born. You scream — "Oh God, why didn’t you warn me?"— but you remember the preacher pleading with you to receive Jesus Christ. You remember reading that gospel tract. You cry — "God don’t you care?" — but you remember John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,. . ." "God is a God of love — He won't allow this", you cry — but you remember John 3:36, ". . . he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." SOON ALL MANKIND WILL KNOW,WATCH THE NEWS AND THE SKIES AND HEAVENS AND OUR PLANET AND SUN.....TIME IS IS HERE,TRUE, NO ONE KNOWS THE TIME OR DATE,ONLY GOD. But Jesus said look up ,and you shall SEE him coming. Remember you choose ,what you want to believe in,but my friends, God is a God of LOVE. . . Why would a GOD OF LOVE send me to hell? Yes, God is a GOD OF LOVE — but God is also a HOLY GOD. A HOLY GOD demands payment for sin. Otherwise God would NOT and could NOT be HOLY.
Because God is holy — sin MUST be condemned. Joshua 24:19 says, ". . he is an HOLY GOD;. . . he will NOT forgive your transgressions nor your sins."
BUT FRIEND I HAVE GOOD NEWS!
God does NOT want you in hell
Hell was not made for man. Matthew 25:41 says, hell was, ". . . prepared for the devil and his angels:"
Because God is a GOD OF LOVE, and He LOVED YOU so much, He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to this earth to die a cruel death on a cross to pay the price a HOLY GOD demands for your sins.
Romans 5:8 says, "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
God does not send someone to hell. You choose hell when you reject Jesus Christ. When you refuse God's love gift of eternal life in Jesus Christ. . .
YOU CHOOSE HELL!,IS THIS WHAT YOU REALLY WANT,I DON'T. I,CHOOSE HEAVEN!!!!! Jesus Christ said in Mark 8:36:
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?"Mark 8:36:
God has something far better than words can describe for those who love Him. I Corinthians 2:9 says:
". . . Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him."I Corinthians 2:9
Friend, there is a place called hell! And, if you continually refuse God's gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ — just as sure as you live and breathe — ONE DAY YOU WILL WAKE UP IN HELL!
Don't wait until you die to find out the truth about Hell! Tomorrow may be too late! Proverbs 27:1 says, "Boast not thyself of tomorrow: for thou KNOWEST NOT what a day may bring forth."
Three people die every second, 180 every minute, since you started reading this — 2000 more people have gone into eternity! An automobile accident. . . A heart attack. . , A stroke. . .One thing is CERTAIN — you will DIE — today. . . tomorrow . . . a week. . . a month . . . a year. . . 5 years. . . 10 years. . . 20 years. . . 50 years — ONE THING IS CERTAIN —" . . .it is appointed unto man once TO DIE . . ."
DON'T BE CAUGHT DEAD WITHOUT JESUS!
You may have made some terrible mistakes in your life. There may be some things in your life you would give anything to be able to change. But friend, I assure you — if you die without Jesus Christ — it'll be the worst mistake you could possibly make!
Has there ever come a time and a place in your life, when you received Jesus Christ as your personal Savior? My Friend its all up to you.I,am here if you need prayer or what to know more, Don't let anyone convince you that when you die it will be all over! The Bible says in Hebrews 9:27:
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGMENT." Hebrews 9:27
Revelation 20:15 says:
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE." Revelation 20:15
If you've never received Jesus Christ as your Savior, bow your head this minute and ask the Lord Jesus Christ to save you.Don't put it off another second!
NOTHING'S WORTH TAKING THE CHANCE!
It's simple to be saved ...
Realize you are a sinner.
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" Romans 3:10
"... for there is no difference. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; ..." Isaiah 64:6
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, ..." Titus 3:5, "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, ..." 1 Peter 2:24
"... Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," Revelation 1:5, But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12
" ...Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."" Acts 16:30,31
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16, My FAVORITE SCRIPTURE! I,believe in this scripture with ALL my whole being........... If you want to be saved,just tell him from your heart,open your HEART to him. Say the lords prayer.Its so simple,then find a good church that goes by the bible,Pray,Fast,and Read and Study your Bible,then be ready,look up our Jesus is coming,He loves us All,HE DOESN'T WANT TO LOSE ANY! F HE LOSES ANY ,ITS BECAUSE ITS OF WHAT WE CHOSE TO DO,WE WALKED AWAY FROM HIM.HE IS THE TRUTH,LIFE AND THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN! DON'T LET ANY ONE TELL YOU THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO HEAVEN,BECAUSE JESUS SAID THERE ISN'T! CHECK MY MEMBER PAGES TO SEE MY OTHER THOUGHTS......I.AM HERE TO PROCLAIM GODS TRUE WORD AND FACTS......I,DON'T JUDGE ONLY GOD DOES. I,DON'T PRESSURE,I JUST STATE THE FACTS AND TRUTH. I,LOOK FOR TRUTH AND FACTS,NOT WHAT MANKIND HAS TO TELL ME.I,LOOK EVERY WHERE FOR TRUTH AND FACTS. I,don't go by what every one says.Like I, said let me take you down a narrow path to God,I,DON'T TAKE THE WIDE ROAD,THAT IS DEATH,FROM HEAVEN. IN JESUS NAME AMEN,I LOVE YOU ALL,GODS GREATS COMMANDMENT,IS TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS HE LOVED US. SEEK AND YOU SHALL FIND HIM AND THE TRUTH AND THE WAY.
As you leave your body — you realize something is happening. You hear a sound. . . getting louder and louder.
edit on
2-4-2011 by venusstarlite because: I FORGOT SOME WORDS,SORRY
You left one sentence out when you were quoting me. This particular statement makes the last statements much more sensible when combined. I guess I'll have to post it again...
Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Condemned0625
You wrote:
["There may be other dimensions, but those dimensions also exist in reality as this one does."]
Agreed.
Quote: ["There is no such thing as existence beyond reality. All that exists is real, therefore it is within reality."]
Personally I wouldn't presume to have more than speculations on 'reality'. Especially not if 'reality' means 'ultimate reality'.
Quote: ["The heavens and hells that are mentioned in religious books do not exist."]
I would classify these as being the results of personal speculations, which is fine with me. The problem is, when they are being enforced as exclusive and monopolistic 'absolutes'.
"The heaven and hell concepts are claimed to be worlds that are beyond ethereal existence, which implies that they are outside of reality. There is no such thing as existence beyond reality. All that exists is real, therefore it is within reality. The heavens and hells that are mentioned in religious books do not exist."
When I talk about reality, I'm talking about...well, reality. Ultimate reality and reality are two similar terms but with differences. Reality is basically all of existence and it simply means that it is a totality of all things that are real. Existence and reality go hand-in-hand and so do non-existence and fantasy. Ultimate reality implies that there is a final reality that is the reality, which makes no sense at all. That means there are two separate realities and the ultimate reality is somehow more real than reality. Does that make any sense to you? Instead of introducing "ultimate reality", it makes much more sense to say that reality is ultimate. There's no such thing as a lesser reality or a greater reality. Reality is simply what it is; Reality.
edit on 4/2/2011 by Condemned0625 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by venusstarlite
You wrote:
["The Bible continually warns of a place called hell. There are over 162 references in the New Testament alone which warns of hell. And over 70 of these references were uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ!"]
If it's in the bible 162 places etc. it CERTAINLY must be true; as the bible itself is true, because it's true.
Did you cite all the 162 references? I actually haven't counted them in your long and informative post.
Quote beginning with: ["And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments . . .screaming . . .weeping. . . wailing."
and after a very long list of all possible kinds of misery ending with
Quote: ["You begin cursing the day you were born. You scream — "Oh God, why didn’t you warn me?"— "]
I'll just have to take my chances then.
That was the whip, not surprisingly here comes the carrot:
Quote: ["LOVE. . . Why would a GOD OF LOVE send me to hell? Yes, God is a GOD OF LOVE — but God is also a HOLY GOD. A HOLY GOD demands payment for sin. Otherwise God would NOT and could NOT be HOLY."]
Which 'god' are you talking about. Surely not only the 'god' of OT. But wait, then the collective 'god' of the whole bible must be schizoid, as he seems to change mood ever so often without any obvious reason.
Quote: ["BUT FRIEND I HAVE GOOD NEWS!"]
Not to be impertinent, but some people actually consider your news as 'BAD NEWS'.
Quote: ["DON'T BE CAUGHT DEAD WITHOUT JESUS!"]
I've always been told, that the important point was clean underwear, but there you go. It's all opinions.
Quote: ["You may have made some terrible mistakes in your life. There may be some things in your life you would give anything to be able to change. But friend, I assure you — if you die without Jesus Christ — it'll be the worst mistake you could possibly make!"]
To be quite honest; I would then personally worry more about, that I never was a buddhist.
Quote: ["Has there ever come a time and a place in your life, when you received Jesus Christ as your personal Savior?"]
Nope.
Quote: ["NOTHING'S WORTH TAKING THE CHANCE!"]
Exactly my opinion, but probably meaning something very different with it than you do.
Quote: ["Realize you are a sinner."]
No, I'm NOT, and what's worse, I'm rather obstinate on this point.
Quote: ["As you leave your body — you realize something is happening. You hear a sound. . . getting louder and louder."]
Hopefully it will be the voice of a tibetan lama reading from 'The book of the dead' (and as I say, I'm not even a buddhist).
You wrote:
["The Bible continually warns of a place called hell. There are over 162 references in the New Testament alone which warns of hell. And over 70 of these references were uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ!"]
If it's in the bible 162 places etc. it CERTAINLY must be true; as the bible itself is true, because it's true.
Did you cite all the 162 references? I actually haven't counted them in your long and informative post.
Quote beginning with: ["And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments . . .screaming . . .weeping. . . wailing."
and after a very long list of all possible kinds of misery ending with
Quote: ["You begin cursing the day you were born. You scream — "Oh God, why didn’t you warn me?"— "]
I'll just have to take my chances then.
That was the whip, not surprisingly here comes the carrot:
Quote: ["LOVE. . . Why would a GOD OF LOVE send me to hell? Yes, God is a GOD OF LOVE — but God is also a HOLY GOD. A HOLY GOD demands payment for sin. Otherwise God would NOT and could NOT be HOLY."]
Which 'god' are you talking about. Surely not only the 'god' of OT. But wait, then the collective 'god' of the whole bible must be schizoid, as he seems to change mood ever so often without any obvious reason.
Quote: ["BUT FRIEND I HAVE GOOD NEWS!"]
Not to be impertinent, but some people actually consider your news as 'BAD NEWS'.
Quote: ["DON'T BE CAUGHT DEAD WITHOUT JESUS!"]
I've always been told, that the important point was clean underwear, but there you go. It's all opinions.
Quote: ["You may have made some terrible mistakes in your life. There may be some things in your life you would give anything to be able to change. But friend, I assure you — if you die without Jesus Christ — it'll be the worst mistake you could possibly make!"]
To be quite honest; I would then personally worry more about, that I never was a buddhist.
Quote: ["Has there ever come a time and a place in your life, when you received Jesus Christ as your personal Savior?"]
Nope.
Quote: ["NOTHING'S WORTH TAKING THE CHANCE!"]
Exactly my opinion, but probably meaning something very different with it than you do.
Quote: ["Realize you are a sinner."]
No, I'm NOT, and what's worse, I'm rather obstinate on this point.
Quote: ["As you leave your body — you realize something is happening. You hear a sound. . . getting louder and louder."]
Hopefully it will be the voice of a tibetan lama reading from 'The book of the dead' (and as I say, I'm not even a buddhist).
edit on 2-4-2011 by bogomil because: paragraphing
reply to post by Condemned0625
Thanks for your answer.
I believe, I actually got your meaning the first time, but I'm not insistent.
Quote: ["When I talk about reality, I'm talking about...well, reality."]
Which doesn't make me wiser.
Quote: ["Ultimate reality and reality are two similar terms but with differences."]
Still with you.
Quote: [" Reality is basically all of existence and it simply means that it is a totality of all things that are real. Existence and reality go hand-in-hand and so do non-existence and fantasy."]
Yes.
Quote: ["Ultimate reality implies that there is a final reality that is the reality, which makes no sense at all."]
Endless regression is ofcourse pointless, as ALL arguments becomes invalid at least one step after 'leaving' the mundane position. So religious or theological regression is like stamp-collecting. A kind of personal interest, where there's room for speculation, but not more.
Quote: ["That means there are two separate realities and the ultimate reality is somehow more real than reality..."]
The 'reality' mankind lives in, is a perceptual interpretation of what's mainly electromagnetic fields. A more 'real reality' would be the direct experience of electromagnetic fields (and e.g. gravity etc). There would also be a more real reality in the direct perception of quantum foam.
Quote comtinued ["....Does that make any sense to you?"]
No, certainly not.
Quote: ["Instead of introducing "ultimate reality", it makes much more sense to say that reality is ultimate."]
I hope, you didn't get the impression, that I introduced 'ultimate reality' as something I operate with. I referred to it as a concept religions containing 'absolutes' operate with, and I'm very critical to such positions.
Quote: ["There's no such thing as a lesser reality or a greater reality. Reality is simply what it is; Reality."]
Bringing us back to: " When I talk about reality, I'm talking about...well, reality."
I function with 'relative realities' and 'approximate truths', which is neither wishy-washy new-age relativism nor crippling for searching knowledge.
Thanks for your answer.
I believe, I actually got your meaning the first time, but I'm not insistent.
Quote: ["When I talk about reality, I'm talking about...well, reality."]
Which doesn't make me wiser.
Quote: ["Ultimate reality and reality are two similar terms but with differences."]
Still with you.
Quote: [" Reality is basically all of existence and it simply means that it is a totality of all things that are real. Existence and reality go hand-in-hand and so do non-existence and fantasy."]
Yes.
Quote: ["Ultimate reality implies that there is a final reality that is the reality, which makes no sense at all."]
Endless regression is ofcourse pointless, as ALL arguments becomes invalid at least one step after 'leaving' the mundane position. So religious or theological regression is like stamp-collecting. A kind of personal interest, where there's room for speculation, but not more.
Quote: ["That means there are two separate realities and the ultimate reality is somehow more real than reality..."]
The 'reality' mankind lives in, is a perceptual interpretation of what's mainly electromagnetic fields. A more 'real reality' would be the direct experience of electromagnetic fields (and e.g. gravity etc). There would also be a more real reality in the direct perception of quantum foam.
Quote comtinued ["....Does that make any sense to you?"]
No, certainly not.
Quote: ["Instead of introducing "ultimate reality", it makes much more sense to say that reality is ultimate."]
I hope, you didn't get the impression, that I introduced 'ultimate reality' as something I operate with. I referred to it as a concept religions containing 'absolutes' operate with, and I'm very critical to such positions.
Quote: ["There's no such thing as a lesser reality or a greater reality. Reality is simply what it is; Reality."]
Bringing us back to: " When I talk about reality, I'm talking about...well, reality."
I function with 'relative realities' and 'approximate truths', which is neither wishy-washy new-age relativism nor crippling for searching knowledge.
edit on 2-4-2011 by bogomil because: spelling and clarification
Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Condemned0625
Thanks for your answer.
I believe, I actually got your meaning the first time, but I'm not insistent.
Quote: ["When I talk about reality, I'm talking about...well, reality."]
Which doesn't make me wiser.
Quote: ["Ultimate reality and reality are two similar terms but with differences."]
Still with you.
Quote: [" Reality is basically all of existence and it simply means that it is a totality of all things that are real. Existence and reality go hand-in-hand and so do non-existence and fantasy."]
Yes.
Quote: ["Ultimate reality implies that there is a final reality that is the reality, which makes no sense at all."]
Endless regression is ofcourse pointless, as ALL arguments becomes invalid at least one step after 'leaving' the mundane position. So religious or theological regression is like stamp-collecting. A kind of personal interest, where there's room for speculation, but not more.
Quote: ["That means there are two separate realities and the ultimate reality is somehow more real than reality."]
The 'reality' mankind lives in, is a perceptual interpretation of what's mainly electromagnetic fields. A more 'real reality' would be the direct experience of electromagnetic field (and e.g. gravity etc). There would also be a more real reality in the direct perception of quantum foam.
Quote: ["Does that make any sense to you?"]
No, certainly not.
Quote: ["Instead of introducing "ultimate reality", it makes much more sense to say that reality is ultimate."]
I hope, you didn't get the impression, that I introduced 'ultimate reality' as something I operate with. I referred to it as a concept religions containing 'absolutes' operate with, and I'm very critical to such positions.
Quote: ["There's no such thing as a lesser reality or a greater reality. Reality is simply what it is; Reality."]
Bringing us back to: " When I talk about reality, I'm talking about...well, reality."
I function with 'relative realities' and 'approximate truths', which is neither wishy-washy new-age relativism nor crippling for searching knowledge.
haha it seems now im stalking you my friend
What if i told you this reality you two are going on about was in fact God...
Hmmm...
reply to post by Akragon
You wrote:
["What if i told you this reality you two are going on about was in fact God..."]
I would say, that it's about time then, that you take a good look at the discipline 'general semantics' and find a more suitable word than 'god'. It's unbelieve what garbage people bring into a debate, once the word 'god' has been introduced and established.
But that's only the beginning of it.
Quote: ["Hmmm..."]
Being on very good terms with you, and wanting it to stay that way, I won't challenge you any further than saying that I can out-hmmm you any day of the week. But...it would be a bit pointless.
PS No signs of stalking leading to paranoia on my part has yet manifested, you still have a broad marginal.
You wrote:
["What if i told you this reality you two are going on about was in fact God..."]
I would say, that it's about time then, that you take a good look at the discipline 'general semantics' and find a more suitable word than 'god'. It's unbelieve what garbage people bring into a debate, once the word 'god' has been introduced and established.
But that's only the beginning of it.
Quote: ["Hmmm..."]
Being on very good terms with you, and wanting it to stay that way, I won't challenge you any further than saying that I can out-hmmm you any day of the week. But...it would be a bit pointless.
PS No signs of stalking leading to paranoia on my part has yet manifested, you still have a broad marginal.
Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Akragon
You wrote:
["What if i told you this reality you two are going on about was in fact God..."]
I would say, that it's about time then, that you take a good look at the discipline 'general semantics' and find a more suitable word than 'god'. It's unbelieve what garbage people bring into a debate, once the word 'god' has been introduced and established.
But that's only the beginning of it.
Quote: ["Hmmm..."]
Being on very good terms with you, and wanting it to stay that way, I won't challenge you any further than saying that I can out-hmmm you any day of the week. But...it would be a bit pointless.
PS No signs of stalking leading to paranoia on my part has yet manifested, you still have a broad marginal.
Why do you think im challenging you? I simply asked you a question... and i got my answer quite quickly... you would condem the fact that i brought God into a "discussion" about reality... i call it God... reality...same thing.
And as usual, thats fine with me, say whatever you must...
It's unbelieve what garbage people bring into a debate, once the word 'god' has been introduced and established.
see, why is it garbage? I haven't even said anything about God yet, i mearly introduced an idea...
This is more or less a religious topic is it not?
edit on 2-4-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)
reply to post by venusstarlite
Why does God give us the choice of free will to believe in Him or not, then when we choose not to, we are sent to an everlasting place of burning, pain, suffering, agonizing, torture forever and ever? But He loves us!
In retrospect, it doesn't sound much like free will at all; rather a "worship me or die". That's like telling my son when he reaches the age of reason that he has the option to love me unconditionally, but if he doesn't, I'm going to send him off to a place where he'll be tortured for his decision not to love me. I don't think any loving person, or God, would do such a thing.
Any rational and logically thinking person should realize this. I hope.
Why does God give us the choice of free will to believe in Him or not, then when we choose not to, we are sent to an everlasting place of burning, pain, suffering, agonizing, torture forever and ever? But He loves us!
In retrospect, it doesn't sound much like free will at all; rather a "worship me or die". That's like telling my son when he reaches the age of reason that he has the option to love me unconditionally, but if he doesn't, I'm going to send him off to a place where he'll be tortured for his decision not to love me. I don't think any loving person, or God, would do such a thing.
Any rational and logically thinking person should realize this. I hope.
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US Political Madness • 44 • : marg6043