Why cut the military

Originally posted by WestPoint23
What I was trying to say was that the economy went down and not that many companies, if any profited form 911.

- Hmm, I don't think that's so, some folks seem to have made a bundle on stocks in the airlines moments before the tragedy.

....and as for the fortunes being made in the resultant war? 30% straight off the top (at top dollar too) at Halliburton....oh, oh, what I meant to say was er, um, damaged and lost!?

Come on.

Wise up and open your eyes.

You're being gouged, large stylee. But they're your tax dollars so if you don't care..........no doubt Dick and friends love ya for it!

Also they did a voice analysis of the tape and it matched Osama�s voice.

- yeah right, that sound track was so muddy and garbled (which was especially strange considering he was meant to be in a hole in the middle of nowhere - somewhere not renouned for the high background noise.....or traffic noise) it could have been anything or anybody. It sure as hell looked nothing like him, the translation was - hmm, what shall we say? - suspect to say the least.

Naaaa, mate, I'm going to agree with the majority of Americans polled on this and say I just don't believe the tape was genuine.

You can ask anyone and they will tell you the tapes are real, just cuz you hate Bush more than you are willing to believe the truth that is a different story. When people refuse to believe the truth conspiracy is born.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
You can ask anyone and they will tell you the tapes are real,

- er, no, plainly the point is a lot of people believe that particular tape to be a fake - including a majority of Americans, I think you'll find.

just cuz you hate Bush

- I happen to believe Bush has many many serious flaws but no, I don't actually hate him, he's nothing to me believe me other than an occassional source of mildly embarrassed humour or sometimes mild anxiety and concern.

more than you are willing to believe the truth that is a different story.

- Well I suggest the opposite is true Westy, I think your love and devotion to G. dub-ya is so strong that you are prepared to overlook the obvious cos that seems the right dub-ya supportin' thing to do.

Even though it is as clear as day that that isn't the same Osama we have all seem so many times before on that tape you insist it is anyway.

....and as for the discrepancies with the actual sound!? What was it heavy traffic at that time of day in the Bora-bora's?! Come on.

The really weird thing is why don't you care? Why are you prepared to swallow this obvious rubbish?

When people refuse to believe the truth conspiracy is born.

- ain't that the truth!

Its really strange you have all the facts hitting you in the face an yet you ignore them. And osama has had 3 years to claim his innocence if he is innocent but he hasn't kind of strange don't you think.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Its really strange you have all the facts hitting you in the face an yet you ignore them.

- go look at the video and some pictures of Osama, that is not Osama.

And osama has had 3 years to claim his innocence if he is innocent but he hasn't kind of strange don't you think.

- and why would he do that anyway?

Especially if he already dead............ or captured.

Why would he do that? Like you said he doesn't want his people dead since Arabs didn't benefit form 911 right? Also if he was dead you think the US government wouldn't announce that what greater boost for bush than saying Osama is dead.

Its really strange you have all the facts hitting you in the face an yet you ignore them. And osama has had 3 years to claim his innocence if he is innocent but he hasn't kind of strange don't you think.

I do not actually believe (apart from said dodgy tape) that Osama has actually admitted doing the 9/11 thing either..................

Westpoint.......every thread....every goddam thread, you are always up there beating non-Americans and non-bushies into the Ground with your tired old rhetoric. It is you who need to open your mind and stop ignoring things that are smacking YOU in the face........

Now, this isn't personal, as you do post some good stuff, but you are also very prone to getting a bee in your bonnet when someone doesn't agree with you. Try stepping back and taking a chill pill, and respond in a measured and controlled way before berating others.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Why would he do that? Like you said he doesn't want his people dead since Arabs didn't benefit form 911 right? Also if he was dead you think the US government wouldn't announce that what greater boost for bush than saying Osama is dead.

Do you live in a cave!!!! Ok why wouldn't they announce that. Maybe they'll announce that they've just captured him just before the elections.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Why would he do that?

- yes, why would he do that anyway?

Why would Osama publicly confirm that he was behind 9/11?

Even if he were I can't think of a single good reason for him to say so publicly. How does it benefit him and his people? Particularly now.

They either already know it which makes public notice unnecessary or they don't in which case they are unlikely to believe any public statement now, why should they?

Especially since we've already had 'Mr seriously unconvincing looky-likey'.

Like you said he doesn't want his people dead since Arabs didn't benefit form 911 right?

- er, what? Where's this come from? I don't recall saying anything of the sort.....where did I say that?

Also if he was dead you think the US government wouldn't announce that what greater boost for bush than saying Osama is dead.

- Well there are more than a few possibilities and rumours out there.

It could be that he has already died of his kidney disease and was buried without any great fuss by his own or that he is dead in the bottom of a collapsed bombed cave somewhere and no-one knows or will ever know.

Or maybe he is awaiting being pulled out of the hat as a card to attempt to ensure Bushs' Nov 04 reelection sometime in Oct.

But if so it's worth bearing in mind that more than a few would most probably respond the other way and see that as the greatest single act of cynical manipulation ever foisted on the US public.....and I've even seen plenty who (as with Saddam) don't feel that Osama suddenly showing up makes everything ok for Bush anyway.

We shall see.....or maybe we won't.

I haven't attacked you so what are you telling me to calm down for? If bush Doesn't capture Osama he gets criticized. if he does captures osama he get criticized for the timing. he just cant win with people who don't even want he hear his name. Osama is different form Saddam I think seeing Osama being bulled out of a rat hole would give me greater pleasure then when I saw saddam looking like crap when he came out.

I find it quite interesting that the entire populous of this great country takes it for granted that Bin Laden is the man responsible for the 9/11 attacks. We take it on the word of our President and his respective intelligence agencies. The same agencies which, OOPS!?, mistakenly stated Iraq was in direct possesion of WMD. No trial, no congressional hearing or declaration. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Any thoughts?

In general, yes, the US military has become weaker than should be allowed. This is due in part to the politicians and to every American who lets it happen. When OIF kicked off, my military specialty was placed under stop loss, also known as the backdoor draft, for a year. It was lifted and reinstated about 3 months later. We, the military members, were told that is was "limited"...it was limited to those personnel that were in a unit that COULD deploy downrange..i.e. had orders already...well since we are fielding 10 combat divisions and multiple combat brigades..that's pretty much everyone. I happened to be in a sham unit at the time..so I was free to go..well then we find out that within two years, all positions within that sham unit are going to be contracted out to civilians...guess where the GI's are going..yup, combat units..effectively holding every one of my specialty in the Army...we've cut our own throats on this one..and have no one to blame but ourselves..As far as the WMD question..After a stint in Kuwait in '98 and talking to the locals...Hussein used them then...places still exist that the shepards won't let their cattle/camels graze because the die...I don't think it's too many carbs. Talking to the doctors in the hospitals who describe the people brought in with massive resiratory trauma, skin lesions, and a variety of other afflictions..I have to admit I thought he had WMD...if he had them then, and led a campaign of deceit and deception for 11 yrs, why wouldn't anyone think he still had them. After all, does anyone really believe that Hans Blix was given full cooperation during the inspections?

What about all of the artillery shells full of mustard gas being found in Iraq on a regular basis of course the media dosent report this. May I remind you that saddam said he had destroyed everything he had but yet we still are finding these shells. We gave saddam at least 3 months to cover up or ship out of the country and nukes he had, possibly to Syria.

All that we've really found is empty shells. Besides for all we know Rumsfeld planted some WMDs, that will be found just before the elections. But thats just my opinion.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
What about all of the artillery shells full of mustard gas being found in Iraq on a regular basis of course the media dosent report this.

- Westy mate a few old empty gas artilery shells, hell even a couple of full ones, does not equate to the screaming WMDs that could hit us all within 45minutes.

May I remind you that saddam said he had destroyed everything he had but yet we still are finding these shells.

- Which as said are not the WMDs referred to as justification for the war and have with one or two exceptions been empty old ones.

Why do you think "the media" has not reported on a major WMD find? Because there hasn't been one. Simple as that. They'd love to run that story - especially someone like Fox.

They can't not because they are ignoring a story that is out there but because the story isn't there to run.

We gave saddam at least 3 months to cover up or ship out of the country and nukes he had, possibly to Syria.

- Nukes!? LMAO. You must be about the last person on the planet who still believes Saddam had nukes of any discription.

So where are the satellite pictures of the convoys of WMDs being trucked out to Syria?

Where is the intel that the WMD's are stored in Syria....and who for anyway Saddam is gone and never coming back. Are you seriously suggesting such a move could be kept secret so long after the fall of Saddams regime?

Syria has improving relations with the UK and europe generally. Such a story, if true, would be exposed and known by now. Syria would not be covering for a long gone Saddam particularly as she wants improving relations abroad.

The WMD's have not been found because they are not there. Even if the manufacturing 'pre-cursor' materials required to produce WMDs exists (the famous stuff unaccounted for to the UN inspectors) is there somewhere it is certainly not in a condition to use in the terms of the scare story used to persuade the public in the UK and USA for war.

Actually the artillery shells that are being found are full of mustard gas they are not empty. And what i meant but shipments to Syria it might have been WMD�s not necessarily nukes maybe nuclear material. CD if the US wanted to plant nukes in Iraq we would have done it by now so I don't believe that theory.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Actually the artillery shells that are being found are full of mustard gas they are not empty. And what i meant but shipments to Syria it might have been WMD�s not necessarily nukes maybe nuclear material. CD if the US wanted to plant nukes in Iraq we would have done it by now so I don't believe that theory.

- any way you cut it Westy the original 'justification for war' story is BS.

Saddam had no WMD's (of the kind described to convince the public in the USA & UK) that 'justified' this war.

We got suckered by those who wanted this war.....and that sure as hell wasn't Saddam.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
if the US wanted to plant nukes in Iraq we would have done it by now so I don't believe that theory.

Maybe they already have and will say they have found WMDs just before the presidential elections.

It's the perfect plan (unless Bush had anything to do with it)

No its too late to plant anything now. It would be too obvious we wanted to plant WMD's we would have already done so. The only thing that may happen before the elections is that Osama might magically be caught .

Siminkypinky Saddam certainly had nukes and did you read about the five or so tons of uranium recovered?

[edit on 13-8-2004 by TACHYON]