The Truth About Disinfo Agents?

This write-up was intended as a reply to someone else's thread, but as I was writing, I thought that this is information everyone should see. I suspect that I will ruffle a few feathers of some ATS members who are set in their belief system, but I firmly believe that by approaching a subject rationally and logically, the real truth will reveal itself. There is no need to flame, and please do NOT derail this thread with personal attacks or the like, as it is unnecessary and detracts from the legitimate discussion...All I want is a mature deductive discussion, and I really hope someone can enlighten me.

I am constantly seeing the word disinformation strewn about the forum, in thread titles and posts, and honestly, it has gotten to me a bit. I was torn whether or not to create this thread, since there are already a ton on the subject, but I truly and honestly feel that this could be to the benefit of quite a few members of this site. So hopefully at least one or two people will learn from my thread, and will discontinue their efforts to label everyone who disagrees with them a "disinfo agent."

[This is in response to a list of behaviors, traits, and actions seen and used by disinformation agents. For the sake of this thread, it does not really matter what these traits, actions, etc. really are...]

It makes sense that these behaviors and actions would be utilized by someone intentionally attempting to sway the opinion of the masses, or to derail a thread as to diminish its perceived legitimacy. Although it does make sense, here is the problem I have struggled with since joining this site not too long ago.

Would the government really pay people to post disinformation on an internet forum? Let's think about this logically. For someone to post disinformation, they would more likely than not have to be "in the loop" so to speak, otherwise how would they know if what they're posting is truly disinformation? I suppose it is possible that they are given a list of what to promote and what to criticize, but this would still give them a good idea as to what the truth is...mainly the opposite of what they are supposed to be posting. Make sense so far?

Now, someone who has clearance high enough to be privy to the truth about the certain topics they are to be posting about, in my opinion would be a great asset that was being wasted trying to sway the opinions and beliefs of a small percentage of the world population, on an online forum. I just cannot visualize a government asset, with a high security clearance, being paid to post in the forums when there are probably 50 more productive jobs they could be doing.

If I wished to argue with myself, which I am sometimes prone to do, I could say the following: Disinfo agents aren't given "specific" instructions, they are simply told to use certain tactics on any thread that seems to be reaching a conclusion that is not what the majority of the population believes...Or something similar to that, basically eliminating the need for them to be "in the loop" regarding sensitive information. I will admit that something like this is a possibility. Probably the only logical possibility, if there really are hundreds of disinfo agents running amuck on the interwebs.

Another thing that bothers me is this...Why would the government care what we discuss on ATS? Say they do succeed in changing the beliefs of some members, because they will not get them all, what have they really accomplished? Even when valid opinions are formed by our members regarding a certain conspiracy, and this conclusion differs from the mainstream opinion, effectively meaning we have uncovered the truth, what happens next? It is not as if anyone can do anything with the truth they have uncovered. Even when something shocking is brought up in the mainstream media there will most likely be nothing done about it, as we have seen many times in the past. So it just does not seem "profitable" for the government to sway a group's opinion, unless that group is the majority of the country.

Also, if the government wanted to infiltrate an online community dealing with conspiracies, etc...then they would have to infiltrate as many as possible, because it would be difficult to differentiate between the thousands of forums online that discuss the same topics, and it would not make any sense to just troll one forum, because there aren't enough people in any one place, considering they may only sway the opinion of a small percentage. They also wouldn't derail a thread for someone who was determined to continue with the discussion. The manpower required to achieve this would be staggering, not to mention if I was correct in assuming every poster would have to have a security clearance that would be higher than "entry level," or secret (I think that is the first level, not sure...) I could be wrong in this assumption, but it makes sense to me.

I do know for a fact that the FBI has infiltrated online forums in the past, and every case I have heard of is regarding criminals and criminal enterprises. Most notably they have infiltrated online communities dealing in stolen property, such as credit cards and banking information. That is a big difference when compared to a community that simply discusses possible conspiracies and other non-mainstream topics.

Something else: would the government really need to pay people to post disinformation, when the community is usually split to begin with? It seems like one half of the community will do the government's job for them.

Something that really bothers me is when a member of this site accuses someone of being a "paid gov. disinfo agent," just because they disagreed with their opinion(s). If this is you, you are not helping the site and community one little bit, so please stop doing that.

So guys and gals, tell me truthfully, what do you believe, and why? Am I totally and completely missing something here? Is there really more to it than my feeble little mind can comprehend? Or am I right in assuming it just isn't logistically possible for any government agency to monitor and post on online forums in an attempt to promote disinformation?

NOTE: I will be the FIRST to admit that I am wrong if someone can prove it to me with facts. Logically speaking, for me, my argument makes the most sense, but again, I could be completely wrong in my assumption.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


I dont know what the problem is, theres an easy way to tell.

In fact, ill provide a link here to one of the disinfo agents U2U inboxes and their profile page, I was going to make a thread on this but its already been covered last year on how to spot these people...

Link to disinfo agents account profile

Link to disinfo agents U2U inbox

Its about time we got rid of all the disinfo agents.

This was an april fools joke.

reply to post by XXXN3O


LOL ok i guessing you copied a link that shows you your own profile or you actually think Im a dis info agent anyway i look at this I'm laughing.

LOL, that was a good one XXXN3O!!! But on a serious note, I just cannot understand, if these agents exist, WHY and HOW they exist, among the other things I addressed in my initial post. I have been reading up on the many threads that I have found on ATS, and will keep doing so. Maybe my opinion will change, and if it does, I will post why it has in this thread.

Originally posted by XXXN3O
reply to post by JiggyPotamus

 

I dont know what the problem is, theres an easy way to tell.

In fact, ill provide a link here to one of the disinfo agents U2U inboxes and their profile page, I was going to make a thread on this but its already been covered last year on how to spot these people...

Link to disinfo agents account profile

Link to disinfo agents U2U inbox

Its about time we got rid of all the disinfo agents.

edit on 1-4-2011 by XXXN3O because: (no reason given)

hey. what the hell. you think i am a disinfo agent? show me where.
have you the right to put up my information like that.
i must be saying something that bothers you.
maybe i am close to some truths that you feel this need.
this makes me think that you are a disinformation agent.
i know the 9/11 fakery scares people. is that what you are trying to dismiss?
i might not always be right in everything i say, but i say it in good faith, so up yours xxx.

to moderator: does he have the right to post my information like that.
please inform me.

edit: oh, ok. thats clever, good one, i take the up yours back. sruoy pu.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


I think it does go on in certain topics, especially when there is an election coming up as those are times when undecided voters can be swayed.

I do not really think it goes on with highly speculative conspiracies though.

Originally posted by pshea38

Originally posted by XXXN3O
reply to post by JiggyPotamus

 

I dont know what the problem is, theres an easy way to tell.

In fact, ill provide a link here to one of the disinfo agents U2U inboxes and their profile page, I was going to make a thread on this but its already been covered last year on how to spot these people...

Link to disinfo agents account profile

Link to disinfo agents U2U inbox

Its about time we got rid of all the disinfo agents.

edit on 1-4-2011 by XXXN3O because: (no reason given)

hey. what the hell. you think i am a disinfo agent? show me where.
have you the right to put up my information like that.
i must be saying something that bothers you.
maybe i am close to some truths that you feel this need.
this makes me think that you are a disinformation agent.
i know the 9/11 fakery scares people. is that what you are trying to dismiss?
i might not always be right in everything i say, but i say it in good faith, so up yours xxx.

to moderator: does he have the right to post my information like that.
please inform me.

It was an april fools joke chief, nobody else can see it.

Its just a general link that brings up your own account and U2U inbox when your logged in.

reply to post by XXXN3O

nice try, how do you do such a great job?

I thought my cover was blown !

Now i have to call my handlers back and explain it was just an April fools joke.

The Government is SO concerned about conspiracy theories that they have their own website to combat them:

www.america.gov...


I hear what you're saying and you make sense, but here's the problem:

You claim that being a disinfo agent at a place like ATS wouldn't be viable since they'd only be reaching a small percentage of the population.

But think about this: Have you seen a You Tube video go viral? How long does it take? And how many people have to see it before it is sent around the world? It only takes one person, my friend. One person at a time. The Government is all too aware about how quickly things spread---and ATS is a breeding ground for discussing conspiracy theories.

I would be surprised if they DIDN'T have some agents trolling around on websites. It would be good practice to find out the who, what, why and when of the so-called "troublemakers" on the Internet so they can be privy to what is going on out here. There is no better place than the Internet to gauge that.

Any information other than the truth is disinfo. The problem is............How do we know what the truth is. "They" do not necessarily have to be government agents to spread disinfo.

Disinformation (a translation of the Russian word dezinformatsiya) is false or inaccurate information that is spread deliberately with intentions of turning genuine information useless. For this reason, it is synonymous with and sometimes called black propaganda. It is an act of deception and false statements to convince someone of untruth. Disinformation should not be confused with misinformation, information that is unintentionally false.

en.wikipedia.org...

ATS as a whole can be classified as disinfo. What information on this site is officially verified? If it is from TPTB, then everybody calls rigged. If it is from someone else, people say they do not know what they are talking about.

The old catch 22 on ATS. Who do you believe? Be careful in that judgement.

Originally posted by XXXN3O
reply to post by JiggyPotamus

 

I dont know what the problem is, theres an easy way to tell.

In fact, ill provide a link here to one of the disinfo agents U2U inboxes and their profile page, I was going to make a thread on this but its already been covered last year on how to spot these people...

Link to disinfo agents account profile

Link to disinfo agents U2U inbox

Its about time we got rid of all the disinfo agents.

edit on 1-4-2011 by XXXN3O because: (no reason given)

Man, you are going to upset some people today...

I think it's funny, of course, but not everyone will get it. I hope you are prepared to calm a lot of people down!

reply to post by VariableConstant


Im already working U2U overtime

I wish people checked dates more often. Haha

I think you are being too simplistic in your analysis of this phenomenon. First of all, who says that each disinfo agent has to be directly on government's payroll? And exactly who do you consider government?

Think about who would have the greatest investment in steering public opinion. First to come to mind is political parties or action groups. They are trying to sway the result of an upcoming election. There is yet much for them to gain or lose. Would they not want to do everything possible to influence the outcome?

There are probably a million special interest groups out there for every subject imaginable. Some of those have extreme views on their subject of interest and would not hesitate to use whatever means was at their disposal to have things go their way, or at least increase public support and destroy their detractors.

That is where I get the most suspicious of a poster's motives, is when they resort to heavy handed, emotional personal attacks on other posters while avoiding any real intellectual discussion on the matter. To me there is the real sign of a DA; not to say that some cannot also use logic and reasoning; but they are fewer I would say.

All of the alphabet agencies have been known to use every sort of trickery imaginable to accomplish their goals; including agents provocateur at live rallies. Why would they avoid internet based "rallies"/discussion groups to either sway the tide or incite a "riot"; just to see who they are dealing with? I can't imagine they would somehow neglect that opportunity to gain insight and or influence.

Lets just be honest here…
99.9% of the time when someone is called a disinfo agent its simply because they are using logic to successfully knock down someone else’s pet conspiracy theory.

Originally posted by defcon5
Lets just be honest here…
99.9% of the time when someone is called a disinfo agent its simply because they are using logic to successfully knock down someone else’s pet conspiracy theory.

Well said.

That earned you a star my friend.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus

, I just cannot understand, if these agents exist, WHY and HOW they exist...

Yes they do exist.

Here is an excellent example:

NAIS Supporters Fighting Dirty
By Karen Nowak, Pond Ridge Farm Hackney Horses, Brookfield, NY

Since it is apparent that some of you think our government agencies are above board, let me share a story of my recent experience.

I have been heavily involved with the anti-NAIS movement since March of 2005. I have done literally thousands of hours of research - including obtaining hundreds of pages of government documents via the Freedom of Information Act. I researched both sides of this issue as objectively as I could, including interviewing people who are experts in the field....

And so, my name became *known* to the USDA and my State Dept of Agriculture. And here is where you will see just how far they will go to prevent the 'other side' from being heard...

...They succeeded in having me banned from the expo because I would be a 'negative influence'!

Technically it should have stopped there, as the ACLU does not normally go after a private corporation in matters like this. But the ACLU believed the whole story 'stunk of censorship' and did not buy the State Dept of Ag's excuse. They then had conversations with the expo organizers and a very interesting story emerged in where even names were named from my State Dept of Ag. They informed the expo organizers that I had been at a huge Farm Expo last August (Untrue as I working). They claimed that I harassed people, was rude and obnoxious and had even caused a riot to break out over NAIS! They also stated that they were 'in fear of being on the same grounds' as me for fear that I would cause another riot. Of course the expo organizers made the decision to ban me. Who wouldn't after hearing such a story from a govt agency? My first reaction was to laugh over this absolutely ridiculous 'story' then I really got angry. I was NOT at said Farm Expo but I did know people who attended. NO riot broke out!

My State Dept of Ag also provided the expo organizers with numerous e-mails that I had written about NAIS - going back an entire year. I saw these e-mails from our State Dept of Ag with my own eyes. It was then that I realized they are actually tracking me on the internet....

Here is another one:

USDA Identified as Terrorists

....When a comment is left, the web site software records the IP address of the commenter as we’ve discussed before. Readers may be interested to know that the above comment came directly from the USDA Office of Operations....

I called the OrgAbusePhone number and after some transferring around I got to Ron Glen who was able to help me. With a little investigating he was able to identify where this IP address, and thus the comment, hail from.

I’ve known for a long time that various people at the USDA and state ag agencies are regularly reading NoNAIS.org. Some dialog is good - they need to hear our objections to NAIS. But apparently the USDA, or someone at the USDA, is feeling some pain. Now they are threatening to do terrorism in order to justify NAIS.....

Walter had a couple of "threads" on the subject and a log of the dialog between him and the government. I followed the story as it unfolded.

I have run into two other "Disinfo" Agents. One I positively identified as working for the UN as a "Consultant" the other as just a "Consultant" in the computer field.

So yes they "Disinfo" Agents do exist.

Originally posted by defcon5
Lets just be honest here…
99.9% of the time when someone is called a disinfo agent its simply because they are using logic to successfully knock down someone else’s pet conspiracy theory.

Hell no; now you're being a disinfo agent yourself!

Actually my beef is only with your 99.9% figure. Of course there are a lot of people who use this barb when they've been wounded by another's logic -- no doubt.

But 99.9%? Of course its not that high. There are in fact disinfo agents out there/in here. They come and they go. Most probably don't hang around because the truth we seek about everything is not something they are naturally interested in. But to deny that they are here, which is basically what you've done, is disinfo in itself.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus

Would the government really pay people to post disinformation on an internet forum? Let's think about this logically.

No the secret government pays, and the most prominent group of dis-info agents on ATS are Freemasons. Discrediting info on secret societies, chem trails, Illuminati etc. is what they do, you can check the posts by them for that.

“Secrecy is the freedom zealots dream of: no watchman to check the door, no accountant to check the books, no judge to check the law. The secret government has no constitution. The rules it follows are the rules it makes up.”
-- Bill Moyers

reply to post by wayno


There have been a few documented cases of interest groups using ATS in an attempt to sway public opinion, but compared to the amount of accusations that fly over people being “paid agents” that is a very low number. The ones that were caught doing it in the past were also pretty much limited to the political areas of the board and showed up around elections. Every time that a group has been caught doing such a thing, to my knowledge, SO has been pretty open about it, and I am sure you can do a search to find the threads started by him about each instance.

There are also those that work in the military, intelligence, etc… who are members, but that does not make them “disinfo agents”. Many people in those fields have similar interests to the average membership here. Most of them are well educated and show it by picking apart certain unfounded theories. Don’t assume that a member is a paid disinfo agent simply because they work for a government agency and are skeptical.

I have been called a “paid disinfo agent” more times then I care to recount, yet nothing could be further from the truth. Whenever someone calls me that though, I laugh because I know that I have absolutely cornered them on whatever topic so that the only recourse left to them is to make accusations of me personally.