Japan Nuclear Crisis Think Tank Project

Originally posted by Shirak
I wanted to start this thread to start talking about possible solutions. I hope this is the right forum for this and could not find a dedicated thread.

The idea of this think tank is to explore possibilities. Pros/Cons Most importantly to look at options that have not necessarily been considered. For the most part I have seen some very educated informed people on this Site. I also consider that this site is on the "radar" So lets explore some ideas and not necessarily write off anything given with constructive intention.

My first Idea is that if the Fusion reaction were to be sped up ie Tactical Nuke would this release the radiation all at once? Yes I know there would be an enormous dust cloud however it is my understanding that the heat and light energy released in a nuclear explosion catalyzes the release of energy from radioactive material.

Yes there would be fallout but there will be anyways people have been able to return to Nagasaki after that explosion albeit years later. I am suggesting a fast release instead of a slow release. Is this possible? Would the resulting explosion catalyze the radioactive fusion process and release the stored energy as heat and light? If so would this decrease the long term, effect? Again this is one idea. It may be flawed if so lets hear it and some alternative ideas!

edit on 31-3-2011 by Shirak because: Spelling correction

A nuclear detonation would only serve to spread the radioactive elements further. Afterwards you would have massive fallout and you'd still have a deadly radioactive site.

... and the process is called fission, not fusion.

Originally posted by Mr Tranny

Originally posted by Shirak
I think that's an excellent idea.. Building reactors to be containable in the event of unforeseen disasters. Essentially making a gate that can close before the horse has bolted. Essentially workers need to be behind about a foot of lead to not be affected by the radiation. I like the immersion idea do you envision starting with a larger perimeter wall then working your way in? I wonder if dredging the nearby coast could be a solution for the some of the concrete requirements.

Once you build the outer perimeter wall and backfill it so that I could support a water fill, then you don’t have to “move in” from there.

Once the water covers the reactors, and fuel rods, then the radiation will drop to nothing. You don’t need any shielding any more. The water is your shielding. Just the same as the water is the shielding when they are doing work in the reactor core, and storage pond. Once you get water in, you can take as long as you want. You can put barges on the “lake” with remote controlled grappling and cutting systems (ROV’s and hoist), then get to work. The operators are on the barges. The stuff they are controlling, is in the water. Tank the spent fuel into storage casks, and get it out of there. Unbolt the reactors, and see what the condition of the fuel is. If it can be pulled, then pull, it tank it in casks, and get it out of there. If it can’t be removed from the reactors. Use remote controlled jackhammers and cutting equipment to tear apart the rector building and make a “BIG CASK” and stick the reactor vessel in, and get it out of there. If you wanted to cut apart the reactor vessel in the “lake” and stick the remnants into smaller cask, then you could do that.

Once you get all the “Hot” stuff out, then drain the lake. Look for any remaining “overlooked” stuff. Then get the wrecking crew in and razz the place. A nice clean field will be all that is left.


If you have plenty of dirt available, then you could also build an earthen dam around the place to support the water fill, but it would leak more, and take more water pumping volume to keep it filled.

edit on 1-4-2011 by Mr Tranny because: (no reason given)

When the fuel was in rods, in the reactor, you could put water between them and it did moderate the reactor somewhat. However if the fuel has melted into a pool, there is no way for the water to moderate the reaction, water would simply boil (explosively) and carry radioactive elements with it, into the air.

This is not a normal fire and water is not going to put it out.

Originally posted by Shirak
reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

 

That lead powder I was referring to that is used in extrusion pipes could be added to the cement mix to give it shielding properties. As the cement is heated the lead would liquefy and bond creating a stronger shield mesh. This would also allow the lead to be pumped in with the concrete.

I think you are heading towards the right idea but the heat output in a meltdown would dry & powder the concrete before it can set. That is why they are trying to "kill" the reactor (called scramming) with seawater & boron. They are hoping that they don't have a melt pool and are able to simply cool it enough to encase.

With the right amount of lead powder mixed into the concrete as it heated the lead would melt and help bond it perhaps. I am unsure of what temperatures we are dealing with though. I understand ceramic can withstand very hight temperatures. Perhaps a ceramic/lead based concrete mix would be the way forward. As the ceramic is heated it will cure with the lead.

what about the floor? has the "pools" floor been compromised?
is the water they are/have been pumping leaking into the ground?

Might sound strange but what about depleted uranium.

en.wikipedia.org...

DU is useful because of its very high density of 19.1 g/cm3 (68.4% denser than lead). Civilian uses include counterweights in aircraft, radiation shielding in medical radiation therapy and industrial radiography equipment, and containers used to transport radioactive materials. Military uses include defensive armor plating and armor-piercing projectiles.

I know at one time they were using depleted uranium concrete for pouring block walls of rooms for giving xrays instead of covering the walls with lead.

web.ead.anl.gov...

DURABILITY OF DEPLETED URANIUM AGGREGATES (DUAGG) IN DUCRETE
SHIELDING APPLICATIONS
ABSTRACT
The depleted uranium (DU) inventory in the United States exceeds 500,000 metric tonnes. To evaluate
the possibilities for reuse of this stockpile of DU, the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) has created a
research and development program to address the disposition of its DU(1). One potential use for this
stockpile material is in the fabrication of nuclear shielding casks for the storage, transport, and disposal of
spent nuclear fuels. The use of the DU-based shielding would reduce the size and weight of the casks
while allowing a level of protection from neutrons and gamma rays comparable to that afforded by steel
and concrete. DUAGG (depleted uranium aggregate) is formed of depleted uranium dioxide (DUO2)
sintered with a synthetic-basalt-based binder. This study was designed to investigate possible deleterious
reactions that could occur between the cement paste and the DUAGG. After 13 months of exposure to a
cement pore solution, no deleterious expansive mineral phases were observed to form either with the
DUO2 or with the simulated-basalt sintering phases. In the early stages of these exposure tests, Oak Ridge
National Laboratory preliminary results confirm that the surface reactions of this aggregate proceed more
slowly than expected. This finding may indicate that DUAGG/ DUCRETE (depleted uranium concrete)
casks could have service lives sufficient to meet the projected needs of DOE and the commercial nuclear
power industry.

Originally posted by Shirak
With the right amount of lead powder mixed into the concrete as it heated the lead would melt and help bond it perhaps. I am unsure of what temperatures we are dealing with though. I understand ceramic can withstand very hight temperatures. Perhaps a ceramic/lead based concrete mix would be the way forward. As the ceramic is heated it will cure with the lead.

I think that simply encasing things as they are now is not the solution as the fuel would continue to "burn" for hundreds of years, cracking and rendering the casing inadequate. The actual "fire", the heat generating nuclear fuel, needs to be diluted until it is ineffective. Then encasing it is a relatively simple engineering task.

Lead is good for the shielding but has a low melting point of 327 degrees, which being only 3 times that of water, it would not be "structural" in dealing with a meltdown, possibly higher in temperature than 1740 degrees. At that temperature, lead is not just a free flowing liquid but will actually begin to boil.