do you understand the economy? free food, free energy, etc.. it doesn't matter

greetings friends,

I have been trying to formulate a way to convey what is floating around my brain housing group for the last few years. it was really an epiphany as to why capitalism is greatly bad for us.

In an economy where wealth controls prices the rich will always keep many people poor, it is not something a rational mind can deny. Sure, everyone would like to live wealthy but that is impossible. Also, it doesn't matter how many techno advancements we have, as long as there are rich people nothing will get better.

If say for example:
1. gasoline and diesel was free
2. food was free
3. houses were free.

the rich would then have less areas to make a profit but they would then just make all their profit off of other things such as medicine, clothes, electricity, etc.


If food was the only thing that wasn't free in such environment, then the rich would through investments drive up the price to where their returns would equal what they do now. it is all about pieces of a pie.

I really need to figure out how to put this into words as I feel the point may not be clear for some.
Basically, the wealthy must become not wealthy before everyone not wealthy will be able to improve their quality of life.

The money flows into commodities to bring in profits by raising the prices for everyone. Whether there are a million commodities or ten. As long as this continues the wealthy will be well off and others will not.

I warn you.. do not dabble in economics if you don't have the background for it.. lol.

Of course free sound good, but an incentive based economy is required to drive technological advancement. If food and other essentials were free, there would be no incentive to work.

Actually FREE stuff is more of a problem right now than a solution. Welfare and other entitlements make up much of our spending and we are funding people who sit on their asses all day collecting our hard earned tax-payer money.

It's the same reason why the upper-class wants tax cuts; they believe everyone should be taxed an equal percentage (which I think is understandable). The government's role in the economy is to assure that everyone STARTS with the equal rules & opportunities; not to implement tax cuts to the lesser class & give the poor entitlements just because they haven't worked enough to get out of the lower-class.

Now of course there are exceptions. But a free-market structure works. A large reason why China is growing so fast right now are their lax laws on businesses. Lower taxes, etc. However it's also the reason for such things as led paint poisoning and so on. It's a trade off.

Originally posted by _WC2_
I warn you.. do not dabble in economics if you don't have the background for it.. lol.



Now of course there are exceptions. But a free-market structure works. A large reason why China is growing so fast right now are their lax laws on businesses. Lower taxes, etc. However it's also the reason for such things as led paint poisoning and so on. It's a trade off.

You should of heeded your own advice. The reason why China is doing so great is A) it has a huge population it doesn't want that are treated like slaves to a degree, B) The Chinese government goes out of it's way to protect domestic business and stifle foreign businesses(China has a defacto policy of "if you wanna do business here it has to made here") and C) China funds business development like cities used to fund sport stadiums.

China uses fascist economic practices, not "capitalism".

The only thing you need to know about economics is that Greed will win every argument based on economics because the people like to feel that they understand economics really just do whatever it takes to justify their greed as good.

If you aren't as greedy as them, then you are unwilling to work. Simple as that.

The reality is that very few wealthy people are self made. They inherit, or exploit a government loophole, or loans, or other wealthy investors.

Housing can be free, as can food. It's just that most people aren't willing to go to any effort to obtain it. I'm not sure about the laws overseas, but I know that in Australia we have 'squatter's rights' which means that if you stay undisturbed in an untended area, it'll become yours legally. Although perhaps I'm biased after having spent a year living out in the wild hunting my own food and not spending a cent (well okay, I did buy a can of coke whilst passing through towns on a couple of occasions but hey no-one's perfect).

Capitalism is an inevitable offshoot of a consumerist culture. Until people begin to realise what is necessary, and what is not, then I'm afraid change will not be implemented very easily. It is true what someone else said about welfare being detrimental to society rather than beneficial in the long run, though. There are a myriad of factors, and no simple answer.

I'm really keen for an economical discussion now, but unfortunately I have to get going - looking forward to checking back on this thread later though!

reply to post by DeepThoughtCriminal


My point of this thread is not that things should be free. My point is that the economy is so top heavy that:

1. the wealthy can use their influence (money) to manipulate commodities to extract their pound of flesh from everyone
2. as long as the rich can "invest" in commmodities we could have free everything except for a single commodity **pick any one** and nothing would get better..
example:

today: average used to convey opinion: monthly

rent: 800 ---------rich profit-10%= 80
car: 300 ----------rich profit-10 %= 30
food: 500----------rich profit-10%= 50
health care:300-rich profit- 10%= 30
clothes: 150------rich profit- 10%= 15
gas: 250------------rich profit- 10%= 25

total profit monthly= 230-

now, it doesn't matter if they get that 230 from 3 or 30 different sources.. their "cut" of the economy is the problem and if for example all things SAVE ONE, in my above example were true that one let's say:

rent would then be: 1,030-----rich profit- 10%= 230...

they would still get their portion of the pie and the economy would be no different.. that is the point of this thread. it does not matter what costs what or who pays what, nothing will get better as long as the wealthy can manipulate prices so they always get the lion's share of profit.

in order for the economy to improve, we must cut their profit.

Originally posted by _WC2_But a free-market structure works. A large reason why China is growing so fast right now are their lax laws on businesses. Lower taxes, etc. However it's also the reason for such things as led paint poisoning and so on. It's a trade off.

"I want to own everything." - John D. Rockefeller

Without controls on what wealth people can acquire, it is inevitable that a very small group of people will own everything and enslave the rest, as is happening right now.

Originally posted by _WC2_Welfare and other entitlements make up much of our spending and we are funding people who sit on their asses all day collecting our hard earned tax-payer money.

The only major problem is the federal reserve bank, and other big banks. Characterizing the disabled, retired and those who can't find employment as the problem is the same as when they did so to the auto workers or now it's teachers and public workers. None of those are the problem.

reply to post by _WC2_


I sit on my "ass"..and I get a va disability pension and an ebt card.. do you have a problem with that?

I spent 6 years in the military, 4 usmc, 2 uscg.. I received injuries in the usmc that abled me to complete term but not re-enlist. I was able to get a waiver, join the uscg where I saved 2 people on seperate occasions, one a fellow coastie from being crushed and drown, the other, a girl from being raped by 3 men in a dark parking lot while off duty (a cast guard petty officer is never off duty, we are actually federal officers).btw.

you tell me how that makes you feel? I was an operator doing things that never happened in places that never existed, got injured, Then served my country further instead of "sitting on my ass" where I received further injuries where I am unable to work and set off metal detectors..

Still, in my current state I bet none could out due me for one day in any physical job. too bad I wouldn't be able to move for a week after that..

Originally posted by rebeldog
reply to post by _WC2_

 

I sit on my "ass"..and I get a va disability pension and an ebt card.. do you have a problem with that?

I spent 6 years in the military, 4 usmc, 2 uscg.. I received injuries in the usmc that abled me to complete term but not re-enlist. I was able to get a waiver, join the uscg where I saved 2 people on seperate occasions, one a fellow coastie from being crushed and drown, the other, a girl from being raped by 3 men in a dark parking lot while off duty (a cast guard petty officer is never off duty, we are actually federal officers).btw.

you tell me how that makes you feel? I was an operator doing things that never happened in places that never existed, got injured, Then served my country further instead of "sitting on my ass" where I received further injuries where I am unable to work and set off metal detectors..

Still, in my current state I bet none could out due me for one day in any physical job. too bad I wouldn't be able to move for a week after that..

I have the utmost respect for individuals like you. However when I talk about entitlements I'm speaking more of people who are unemployed with no past military service & individuals who do not contribute to society and collect their entitlements the first of every month with no desire to improve our economy or conditions in our country.

And honestly it's not even about them. It's about the policies. Gov't spending is entirely out of control, and debt will be nearing 100% of our GDP in the coming years. Of that debt, the majority is entitlements. There is no argument here, entitlements need to be cut one way or another. Why not start with cutting entitlements to those who don't seem to be as entitled?

"The only major problem is the federal reserve and other big banks."

I agree that these are 2 of the largest issues, but clearly not all the major problems. The size of our government has been growing larger which greatly effects the capitalist market. Obamacare sounds great on paper, but a year later we are already looking to make cuts because it's unattainable. Other expenditures like education should not exist and should be privatized (countless studies have shown that privatized education would not only lead to less gov't expenditures, but better quality of education). Obviously the defense budget is and has been out of control as well. But defense isn't even the biggest spending issue (contrary to popular belief)..

It sounds harsh to come down on those who collect entitlements, but it's more simple math than anything else. Those are our biggest expenditures and our debt grows by the millions everyday.

Bill Gross, founder of PIMPCO wrote a great article about where America is heading and why we will default on our debt very soon. He's the biggest bond manager in the world and has always been pro-US Treasuries until recently. You can read the article here : www.pimco.com...

The crooked bankers & politicians will soon meet their maker. However now is not the time to be struggle with such conflicts inside our country. In fact, we can't afford that right now. What's more important at the present moment is getting our deficit under control, even if it means taking a hit in the market in the short-term. Putting frauds and banksters behind bars in the short term is not going to help us get our economy off the ground anytime soon.. not saying it shouldn't be done, but it should be done once our fiscal house is in order.

________________

The problems started with de-regulations
and letting the crooks' buy off government officials
Now everything is run like Enron, hogwild without a leash.

________________

Understand that we are the only thing acting against Nature. Money is against Nature.
Religion is against Nature.

Without these 2 Unnatural believe systems put in our minds from birth, the world is in perfect Harmony.
Until the world is not in line with Nature, you will keep seeing the suffering created by these false believes

reply to post by TribeOfManyColours


wisdom. you display it more than a large number of a'mercans (redneck sheeple voice).

there is enough to go around everyday, yet a few have most of it and hoard it to ensure they have more than everybody else.

its like an amusement park where the cool roller coaster has a three hour line snaking around and round. Every single person who enters the park wants to ride the cool roller coaster. Then, when it is your turn, you get ready to board and notice thess groups of people in the front (best seats) and another group in the rear rows (other best seats). and somehow, they don't have to stand in line, never have to exit the ride, and get to enjoy the roller coaster time and time again, laughing at all the other "poor saps" that spend half their day trying to get one turn.

free food, free housing, free education and free healthcare

providing those, 90 of social problems are gone.

and to those who say that will generate laziness, well

keep a currency system and economy for those areas of human production that do not involve those 4.

best of both worlds, thats my system.


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Reply to post by AnotherYOU

as to say, people are only lazy because they realize how steep the social pyramid is.

with basic necessities furfilled i dont see no reason people wouldnt contribute and do something just to get their trinkets.

plus, brands and products would be limited and standardized, in the sense that...

anything one would buy would have a lifetime warranty, as things would be made efficient and built to last.

unlike most products that are made to break, right around when the warranty expires, or a new model out.


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